The Martian Manhunter Pro/Con Workshop

[CRaymond]

I just wanted to say this character concept rocks on toast.

Thanks boss. I'm glad you like it, I reread what I wrote and thought I was all over the place.

BTW, I watched The Men Who Stare at Goats, and it's hilarious. I'm totally envisioning Jingo, AKA General Stronghold Burroughs, as General Hopgood plus 20-30 years.



So let me start over.

1. Americans extricate several theoretical physicists, including Doctor Saul Erdel, and paranormal researchers, including Doctor Edgar Cizko, from Nazi Germany.
2. American military/industrial complex sets up Doctor Erdel in his own lab. Cizko escapes after filming numerous psychic trials.
3. Private Burroughs is assigned to Doctor Erdel as a lab assistant and handler. Jon Goodwin Burroughs, goes by "Jingo" among family and friends.
4. Jingo watches old Cizko psychic trials, and suggests using psychic navigation system to aid Erdel's teleportation machine. Erdel dismisses Jingo's suggestion.
5. Erdel fires up his machine, but it goes awry. Jingo watches in horror as a monster appears in the flames, seems to attack Erdel.
6. The monster, J'onn J'onzz, tries to save Erdel but the old scientist has heart attack and third degree burns. Jingo fires his gun at J'onn.
7. J'onn, also burning and now bleeding from a gunshot, cries that he is a Martian, lost on Earth. Jingo continues to shoot wildly.
8. J'onn pinches Jingo, and stops him cold. Jingo wakes the next morning to find the lab in order, and Erdel sweeping up the lab. (J'onn is Erdel, and Jingo thinks it was all a nightmare.)
9. Jingo and Erdel(J'onn) work together on Erdel's equipment. Erdel(J'onn) is far more open to ideas and sympathetic to alien contact than Doctor Erdel ever was, and Jingo grows suspicious.
10. Jingo attacks Erdel(J'onn), and hacks off his hand, which transforms back to its Martian form. J'onn flees in pain.

11. Over time, Jingo goes career, becomes a Major, and uses J'onn's hand to create a variety of psychic superhuman soldiers and experimental hybrids.
12. He manages to locate (immortal) Edgar Cizko and instead of arresting the villain, asks to become a protege.
13. With chemical cocktails obtained from J'onn's body, and Doctor Psycho's training, Major Burroughs gains a psychic "compulsion" talent*.
14. Using his psychic power, Major "Stronghold" Burroughs becomes a General, and then a Senator.

* Stronghold's power: When he locks eyes with a target, he can mentally override their thoughts and feelings. Making them susceptible to commands and even direct telepathic control. In effect, he creates armies.

[shades of eternity]

and suddenly you have a villain that draws on themes and sounds seriously like an arch nemesis for jonn. well done.

[CRaymond]

and suddenly you have a villain that draws on themes and sounds seriously like an arch nemesis for jonn. well done.

Exactly! I'm trying to come up with other international villains that could have been manipulated and modified like Stranger Things agencies, but need liberation and the kind of "good dad" coaching that J'onn can provide. I'm working with an expanded family of psychics hiding in Kazakhstan, a hippie cult in New Mexico, the orphaned children of Vietnamese human bombs, Lebensborn in Argentina, gorillavore warlords in the Congo...

I feel like McKinnon playing Hillary. "Just give me the hammers and nails and let me fix it all!"

[shades of eternity]

exactly

No matter his powerset, he needs to act like a scalpel, not a sledgehammer.

violence is usually the last option, but the weirdness of a potential comic should more than compensate.

and honestly MM has so much untapped potential, I'd be almost tempted to send something to do to see what happens.

[CRaymond]

and honestly MM has so much untapped potential

I think the demeanor of the character downplays power fantasy tropes. I let my brain work with threads from Tom Clancy, Michael Crichton, Stephen King blankets... and those nearly always work better in pageturners, rather than funnybooks. Martian Manhunter -the novel- might have legs.

[shades of eternity]

you know

a novel has potential.

I was thinking of a style more in common of horror/mystery/detective comics pre-comic authority code, but yeah j'onn could seriously be a novel that sucks you in.

edit: heck it could be a novela of short stories simply labeled Martian Tales.

[CRaymond]

The very fact that he's so subtle was why I wanted to incorporate Oa's Manhunter into the mix. Give him some Neue Silver Age whackadoo space opera angle. Otherwise, you're stuck with a stranger in a strange land versus the Andromeda Strain and survivor angst. Send him to space so he can feel some rage by punching robot moons and starships made of plants.

But if you want to go Crichton/King... it'd be pretty easy to script a few Netflix-y seasons.

[lordozone]

For me, his powers are not the problem.

Martian Manhunter is one of my favorite character of the Dc universe, because he is the ultimate immigrant, more than Superman, and can be very topical but he was rarely used properly: Like Syrians in Europe, he is from a place destroyed by war (The white martians vs The green martians), his appearance and beliefs are different, and people don't really trust him.

The best version of Martian Manhunters is not in a DC comics, it's in "Black Hammer", with "Barbalien", the rip-off of Martian Manhunter : they made his alter-ego a Black man and he is gay. And It was not done for diversity sake, it was organic: Martian Manhunter/Barbalien is the ultimate minority, always feared and distrusted.

Like in Black Hammer, the alter-ego of Martian Manhunter need to be from a minority. And the writers need to work on this concept: He understands the minorities, because he is one. With a good writer, who can write social issues without being too preachy, he can be a very important character with a real direction.

[CRaymond]

One thing I wanted to bring up is that I want J’onn to fit a dad-shaped hole for both Clark and Bruce. Now granted, each have significant father figures in thier lives, but J’onn is a lost alien like Clark, and a detective like Bruce. He’d be like a sidekick in reverse.

[T'Challa Bruce Von Doom]

I also imagine J'Onn having an intense interest in human psychology. Reading minds is one thing; understanding why people think like they do is another.

This is an important distinction to make. As being able to read minds in and of itself doesn't necessary give any special insight on human behavior.

I liken it to someone looking in the back of a textbook for the answers vs. actually studying. Being able to look in the back of the book at the answers gives you the answer, but it doesn't mean you understand how that answer was arrived at. Mind readers simply have the ability to look in the back of the book anytime they want, so they don't have to study. While psychologists do have insight on human behavior, but can't read minds.

[Jcogginsa]

Odd idea: What if J'onn's Dayjob is as an actor?

[scary harpy]

For me, his powers are not the problem.

For me, his powers are the problem.

If Peter Parker could fly instead of wall-crawl and had 360°vision instead of spider-sense, would he really still fit the name Spider-Man? He still has enhanced strength and amazing agility. Could he fit the name Dragonfly better? (Pete could certainly invent other weapons beside web-sligners. Makes me wonder.)

As of now, J’Onn has shown super-strength, super-speed, super-health, super-breath, (martian) heat vision, x-ray vision and flight. He also has a weakness to fire; it’s his kryptonite. He’d be called Superman Green if it wasn’t for his intangibility, invisibility, shape-shifting and (nebulous) telepathy.

His powers are the larger problem because we cannot change his powers much. Like with Pete Parker, too much alternation and we have a new character. We don’t want a new character. We want a Martian Manhunter with defined & refined abilities.

Self-Kinesis describes most of his physical powers. Tactile Telepathy covers most of his telepathic abilities without overpowering him; J’Onn does not need to be the Saturn Girl of this century. Senses are still a work-in-progress in my opinion…but we have made progress.

[stephens2177]

Self matter manipulation and tactile telepathy are the perfect Jonn powerset imo.it makes him powerful,but not a Superman clone.

His senses and his normal physical strength should be based on how good or bad "his" Mars environment was.like if he was on our Mars he would have to deal with freezing temperatures, ultraviolet rays,storms,dust particles,no air,and being around 30% as heavy as he is on earth,that is a **** ton to overcome,BUT his self MM can afford him through density control the protection he needs to all that,but his senses are another story.you could always say he can shapeshift his eyes into a better suited set.

I don't think he should go the Kryptonian way of evolving stronger,more durable,and the senses,because Krypton has a massively heavier gravity than Mars,so jonns powers shouldn't be strength related,more floating manipulator type,like his self MM would be.

[shades of eternity]

I'm not sure what else I can add, but I wanted to thank everyone for this creative experience.

I'd loved the sheer creativity of those involved.

[CRaymond]

I'm not sure what else I can add

Pick a new Workshop ;-)