Was Cyclops already over Jean before Emma came along?

[ButterRum]

I find it funny that people believe Cyclops believed he was in actual therapy sessions with Emma. I think he knew she was up to no good. He knew she was flirting with him and trying to seduce him. He even showed earlier signs of attraction to her in the New X-Men Annual. He told Emma he was flattered by her attention but couldn't help remember the times she tried to kill the X-Men when she was a villain. Then the night Emma tried to seduce Scott, Jean in her telepathic phone call sensed that his mind was drifting towards Emma.

So he wasn't some innocent, helpless puppy here.


Anyways, it's been 15 years, and this discussion pops up like everyyyyy week. Truly telling what a compelling and controversial story that was told in X-Men history!

[spirit2011]

I think the key thing is that he had agency. The only thing Emma used her powers for was to orchestrate the scenarios for their sex sessions but she didnt mind control him. I dont beleive he was so broken that he was unable to make decisions for himself. He knew what he was doing was wrong as he acknowledged it, yet proceeded to do it anyway bc it felt good. He bares responsibility for that, not Emma. She seduced him and she was relentless in her advances, but he succumbed to that

Scott had limited agency, you could say that he could get out at any time. we could say about this about many abuse victims. He was still lead to be mistaken by Emma, why would he get out?
he acknowledge it later but he was already too deep into it

[Silver Fang]

It was unethical. It wasnt morally correct to get involved with a married man and exploit the issues he was dealing with for her own sexual gratification. She was a coworker and agreed to use her powers to help him in the capacity of a therapist and she was unprofessional and took advantage of that. That was unethical

Agreed. In her own selfish desires she helped wreck a marriage, and hurt someone else. Those things are not exactly ethical.

The argument for adultery is always "they don't owe anyone anything", but by that selfish and borderline sociopathic logic, you can excuse the most disgusting of crimes. You can use that to excuse a serial killer. They don't owe anyone anything, so if they want to murder indiscriminately, what's wrong with that? It makes them happy, and isn't that most important? lol See how that goes, and how sick things can get when someone is that self-serving to a sociopathic degree that they don't care who gets hurt so long as they get what they want.

[PsychoEFrost]

I find it funny that people believe Cyclops believed he was in actual therapy sessions with Emma. I think he knew she was up to no good. He knew she was flirting with him and trying to seduce him. He even showed earlier signs of attraction to her in the New X-Men Annual. He told Emma he was flattered by her attention but couldn't help remember the times she tried to kill the X-Men when she was a villain. Then the night Emma tried to seduce Scott, Jean in her telepathic phone call sensed that his mind was drifting towards Emma.

So he wasn't some innocent, helpless puppy here.


Anyways, it's been 15 years, and this discussion pops up like everyyyyy week. Truly telling what a compelling and controversial story that was told in X-Men history!

The affair isn't what bugs people. It's the fact that the consequences of it were never realized because Jean died soon after. So it is an unresolved plot point that is made worse by Emma essentially replacing Jean on the team for the following years.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Offering sex =/ killing someone. The only one in the wrong is the person having sex behind their loved one's back. We don't get to blame others for our choices and most people figure that out before they even leave high school.

[Silver Fang]

The affair isn't what bugs people. It's the fact that the consequences of it were never realized because Jean died soon after. So it is an unresolved plot point that is made worse by Emma essentially replacing Jean on the team for the following years.

And the relationship being glorified as a deep love story, despite starting through adultery & betrayal, as if those things are frivolous and mean nothing long as Emma got what she wanted.

[spirit2011]

Agreed. In her own selfish desires she helped wreck a marriage, and hurt someone else. Those things are not exactly ethical.

The argument for adultery is always "they don't owe anyone anything", but by that selfish and borderline sociopathic logic, you can excuse the most disgusting of crimes. You can use that to excuse a serial killer. They don't owe anyone anything, so if they want to murder indiscriminately, what's wrong with that? It makes them happy, and isn't that most important? lol See how that goes, and how sick things can get when someone is that self-serving to a sociopathic degree that they don't care who gets hurt so long as they get what they want.

Well said. It really paints a bad picture of our society where there is zero empathy for people and selfish atitutes are encouraged. I think Scemma really fits well out new society

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Emma constantly ignored Scott's rebuffs, and kept trying to blur the lines, and mitigate what she was doing..."it's just this...we're only doing this", because she herself wanted it to be more than "therapy" because she couldn't even admit to herself that she fell in love with Scott bloody Summers until Jean tore down all her self-deception. Who cares if Emma fell in love? That's not a free pass to put herself where she doesn't belong. Scott wasn't in love with Emma, and it took a cosmic level intervention to get him to be with Emma(which is disgusting for other, out of universe reasons)

Scott is not wholly innocent of course, he and Emma both were warned by Henry(also Logan and the Cuckoos) ...that's how blatant they were with their "just thoughts"

Yeah Scott should just had stopped and told Jean what happened and cut off Emma. He just kept doing it, and that was a very a-hole thing to do. Also he fell in love with Emma? LOL

Morrison also wrote a rape date on his Batman run, where Bruce is drugged by Talia and she conceives a kid with him.

[Silver Fang]

Offering sex =/ killing someone. The only one in the wrong is the person having sex behind their loved one's back. We don't get to blame others for our choices and most people figure that out before they even leave high school.

How is the person having sex behind a loved one's back? They can't do it alone. So the other man or mistress is equally to blame because they were helping.

Legally there's a thing called Aiding & Abetting. You may not directly commit a crime, but if you are assisting the person who did, you'll both be in jail as guilty people. You were helping someone who was committing a wrongful act, even if you didn't directly do it yourself.

A cheater is wrong. But they can't cheat if other people aren't willing to help them, or Emma's case encouraging it. The only way the other man or mistress is innocent is if the cheater hid the fact they were with someone.

Lack of empathy is a sign of a psychopath & a sociopath, and they do not operate on any ethical terms because they are purely self-serving. In which case, it makes them an unethical and deplorable person.

[spirit2011]

How is the person having sex behind a loved one's back? They can't do it alone. So the other man or mistress is equally to blame because they were helping.

Legally there's a thing called Aiding & Abetting. You may not directly commit a crime, but if you are assisting the person who did, you'll both be in jail as guilty people. You were helping someone who was committing a wrongful act, even if you didn't directly do it yourself.

A cheater is wrong. But they can't cheat if other people aren't willing to help them, or Emma's case encouraging it. The only way the other man or mistress is innocent is if the cheater hid the fact they were with someone.

Lack of empathy is a sign of a psychopath & a sociopath, and they do not operate on any ethical terms because they are purely self-serving. In which case, it makes them an unethical and deplorable person.

Some people are so destroyed by their love ones cheating that they think or even commit suicide.

I was even thinking that Jean didn't saved herself, because she knew Scott would choose Emma and she couldn't bear it. She was with phoenix she should had survived Xorn

of course some men lie about not being married or have a GF.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Emma wasn't engaged/married to anyone. That was on Scott, solely on Scott, to honor his relationship/marriage/half-hearted co-habitation. I imagine that it may be comforting to pass the buck to Emma, but she wasn't betrothed to anyone.

[Silver Fang]

Emma helped him dishonor all those things. So no mater how you slice it, she was not innocent. it's not hard to understand that if you are HELPING someone do the wrong thing, you are also wrong for participating in a wrongful act.

A knowing mistress is basically the sidekick sidechick. In the end, cheaters are not having sex with themselves. Whoever is helping them cheat, has contributed to the offense they committed because they can't do it alone.

I think Scott & Emma were both tacky pieces of crap for how their relationship started, which is why I could never get behind it since it seems to glorify adultery. as a good thing while they ride off into the sunset & Jean gets killed with the editor saying she can stay dead because Scott is good with Emma.

[KangMiRae]

Emma wasn't engaged/married to anyone. That was on Scott, solely on Scott, to honor his relationship/marriage/half-hearted co-habitation. I imagine that it may be comforting to pass the buck to Emma, but she wasn't betrothed to anyone.

Emma is totally a sleazebag for egging Scott on. That's just the plain truth and to try and deny that to paint her in a good light is pretty much making your own Emma Frost OC. She was a scumbag at the time, and that's what makes it fun.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

She was knowingly a side piece until she wasn't. The story as written is that she and him had an attraction and he acted on it because that's where his commitment to honor and his current marriage was. The fact is that Emma had no responsibility to his marriage. Only he and Jean did.

Emma wasn't in the wrong until AvX, in her dalliance with Namor.

Not sleeping with someone else simply because you don't know the option to do so is on the table is not the same as being faithful. If you decide to cheat, it's on you, not the other person. Sometimes we make our beds and must lie in them.

[spirit2011]

And the relationship being glorified as a deep love story, despite starting through adultery & betrayal, as if those things are frivolous and mean nothing long as Emma got what she wanted.

They got all the good parts without getting to deal with the ugly ones. Emma got it all, I really don't remember a case of a bad guy getting away with it so easily.
It was disrespectiful and fandom just accepted it, that is whre i most dissapointed

Emma helped him dishonor all those things. So no mater how you slice it, she was not innocent. it's not hard to understand that if you are HELPING someone do the wrong thing, you are also wrong for participating in a wrongful act.

A knowing mistress is basically the sidekick sidechick. In the end, cheaters are not having sex with themselves. Whoever is helping them cheat, has contributed to the offense they committed because they can't do it alone.

I think Scott & Emma were both tacky pieces of crap for how their relationship started, which is why I could never get behind it since it seems to glorify adultery. as a good thing while they ride off into the sunset & Jean gets kill with the editor saying she can stay dead because Scott is good with Emma.

yes, she wasn't inoccent. She did it all becasue she thought Scott was hot and it was fun to screw over jean because she hated her.

[KangMiRae]

She was knowingly a side piece until she wasn't. The story as written is that she and him had an attraction and he acted on it because that's where his commitment to honor and his current marriage was. The fact is that Emma had no responsibility to his marriage. Only he and Jean did.

Emma wasn't in the wrong until AvX, in her dalliance with Namor.

Not sleeping with someone else simply because you don't know the option to do so is on the table is not the same as being faithful. If you decide to cheat, it's on you, not the other person. Sometimes we make our beds and must lie in them.

Uhhh. You realize Emma wasn't even initially attracted to Scott, right? She only started the whole thing with Scott to get at Jean. She's responsible for that. She's responsible for the affair. You're way, way too much of a sympathizer. It's jarring.