Wrestling WWE

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I'm gonna say something controversial but it needs to be said



Vince McMahon was not only justified, but was completely in the right to do the montreal screwjob

Well considering this is 20 years later , what is controversial about this ? I mean its like saying ...I'm gonna be controversial .....Benoit and company was right to walk outta WCW in 2000. So many years have passed and the whole deal has lost its big deal aspect.



- Everyone has pretty much agreed that Vince doing this kick started his heel turn which was needed. Vince for a long while was getting booed. In the RAW Reviews from 1996 , before he left the company ...Nash would openly call Vince out as owner. Vince would edit the promos in comical ways to edit this out in re-airing. It was going through 1997 as Vince struggled to understand that fans really didn't like him but he was trying harder to play the "good face" role he had done for years. The angle with Bret Hart was Vince trying to paint himself now as a guy being bullied by an unreasonable Hart.



- Now was Bret Hart being unreasonable as wanting to not work with Shawn Michaels and drop the title to him ? Yes and no. As champion your supposed to do the honors on the way out of course. Be a solid champion and do that. But the Shawn Michaels of 1997 was such a terrible piece of crap. He pretty much put the nail in Bret's 1st marriage (which wasn't going well due to Bret's affairs outside ring) by claiming Bret Hart was sleeping with Sunny (which Shawn was doing !). Bret didn't wanna work with Shawn and really the company should have did a tournament deal after Summerslam and took the belt off Bret that way ...to not even have a Survivor Series 1997 deal.



- But they wouldn't have done as well with the Evil Mr. McMahon character and convinced him to do that role. So it worked out.



- It would have worked out for Bret in WCW had they actually booked him better and set him off after the whole Sting/Hogan angle had ended. Had brought him in and gave him a main event level run against Hogan , Sting etc. Instead Hogan didn't wanna work with Bret and it killed his momentum in arriving. So yeah money wise Bret Hart cashed in. But career wise it was bad. (Its only when Russo got the book he was like...I'm pushing Bret Hart and he's THE GUY now...and if he hadn't been hurt ...damn...we would have seen Bret Hart vs Hulk Hogan or Bret vs Benoit at some point (which was teased with the Mayhem match).

[Kal-El Summers]

I'm gonna say something controversial but it needs to be said



Vince McMahon was not only justified, but was completely in the right to do the montreal screwjob

Honestly, without it and the ushering in of the Mr. McMahon character, WCW probably wins the Monday Night Wars.

[Username taken]

I'm gonna say something controversial but it needs to be said



Vince McMahon was not only justified, but was completely in the right to do the montreal screwjob

Knowing all the facts, I actually understand why McMahon did the screwjob.

Bret Hart was being unreasonable and there was a genuine possibility that he would have left without dropping the title.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Knowing all the facts, I actually understand why McMahon did the screwjob.

Bret Hart was being unreasonable and there was a genuine possibility that he would have left without dropping the title.

That was possible but Bret Hart had always conducted himself with class and it wasn't like him to do that ring wise. I'd lean towards the fact Bret had always been someone who conducted his career with class. If he said , I'll do this....he'd do it. Vince was scared due to what happened with Madusa 2 years earlier.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Jim Cornette and his co-host discussed Paul Heyman who was on Steve Austin's podcast. Anyhow Jim brings up the times Paul E. was fired comically by Jim Herd and some of the things he'd do.


- Cornette starts off saying Paul was fired over the airport ticket deal he had figured out and found a way to make money on. Now back in the days WCW would issue you plane tickets to fly and as a manager or announcer , Paul was issued plane tickets to and from work. He'd fly into Atlanta from New York ...and back. The tickets cost say $400 bucks but they'd be under WCW's credit card and no boys could turn them in because the refund would go back to WCW's credit card.

But Paul E. found a way....


- As Jim brings up Paul started staying with a lady in Atlanta and she would help use her credit card to bump up his plane flight a couple times. By this point , the WCW credit card would come off. Then Paul would cash the ticket in. He was no longer flying to and from work and used her to get the money from that. Also he was doing the same with his motel room and cashing in that way as well.


- It was Jim Ross who comically busted Paul E when he was supposed to come in to do voice work. It was when J.R got an early form of caller ID and when Heyman called him to say his plane was delayed , the caller ID showed a 404 area code.


- Every time that they'd fire Paul , he'd turn around and find a way to actually get a threatened lawsuit to scare them into keeping him hired. From religious reasons to work conditions. But the company was scared of lawsuits and Paul would discuss ways he'd do this and keep his job.


- Cornette brings up that it was Paul who told him about it one day backstage that he found a way to make extra money. The co-host brings up the ticket scam as something Jack Nicholson did during filming of a movie which segues Jim into a wild story Paul detailed to him.


- Paul as he claims would constantly run up and detail fun stories of New York when he'd fly home. Or if he was flying home lol. Anyhow one place he'd go to is the famous China Club in New York. It was his favorite club to hit it seems. Anyhow Dennis Condrey would laugh as Paul would run up to him and get him to the side to discuss these stories. So one day he runs up...and goes...Jim I have to tell you this.

He goes into detail that he went to China Club and saw....Jack Nicholson ! Cornette is like wow...that is great you actually saw Nicholson and it made sense. I mean its a popular club in the biggest city. Then he goes , I spoke to him ! Jim is like wait , hold on ...you actually spoke to the guy. Then he goes...Jim...he told me.."Watch for the tennis racket." As Cornette is like whoa , whoa hold there cowboy now your expecting me to believe that Jack Nicholson watches pro wrestling and is a fan of this Midnight vs Midnight angle on TBS ? Paul then swears on his father's life.


- So Jim is like , i can't exactly challenge this claim since its swore on your father's life. But to think that somewhere Jack Nicholson stopped watching WCW on TBS at one point because he no longer saw Midnight vs Midnight program. That is funny.

[XPac]

That was possible but Bret Hart had always conducted himself with class and it wasn't like him to do that ring wise. I'd lean towards the fact Bret had always been someone who conducted his career with class. If he said , I'll do this....he'd do it. Vince was scared due to what happened with Madusa 2 years earlier.

Given Bret was essentially being unprofessional enough to refust to drop the title at Survivor Series, Vince in this specific case had reason not to give Bret the benefit of the doubt.

That said, I'll say again in hindsight things worked out for the best the way things went down. The screwjob ended up making both Vince and Bret arguably the two most talked about people in all of wrestling. The only difference is Vince was able to capitalize on the screwjob, and Bret (due to miserable WCW booking) was not.

[XPac]

Honestly, without it and the ushering in of the Mr. McMahon character, WCW probably wins the Monday Night Wars.

It's really really tough to say.

There's no doubt whatsoever that the Montreal Screwjob didn't help turn things around. The McMahon character (along with obviously the Austin character) was the angle which really got things rolling for the WWE.

But then again, WCW historically is known for shooting itself in the foot. I think it's entirely possible if Vince was just able to hold on, WCW would end up losing all by itself without Vince even having to "beat" them. I think you can make the argument that Vince didn't need to beat WCW... he just needed to survive long enough for WCW to beat itself.

But regardless, Montreal Screwjob ended up benefiting WWE a lot. In hindsight at least, it was clearly the best possible outcome for the WWE.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Given Bret was essentially being unprofessional enough to refust to drop the title at Survivor Series, Vince in this specific case had reason not to give Bret the benefit of the doubt.

That said, I'll say again in hindsight things worked out for the best the way things went down. The screwjob ended up making both Vince and Bret arguably the two most talked about people in all of wrestling. The only difference is Vince was able to capitalize on the screwjob, and Bret (due to miserable WCW booking) was not.

Its a 50/50 deal in retrospect. Bret told them for a long while he'd drop the belt to anyone in the company before the match...except Shawn. Vince wanted that WWF World title match to headline the PPV and banked on the hot Michaels/Hart program to do it. Now sure looking back it was the right move as it made Mr. McMahon. But then everyone was pissed...Mick Foley almost walked out as he detailed in his book. (Jim Ross talked to him).

[Immortal Weapon]

Its a 50/50 deal in retrospect. Bret told them for a long while he'd drop the belt to anyone in the company before the match...except Shawn. Vince wanted that WWF World title match to headline the PPV and banked on the hot Michaels/Hart program to do it. Now sure looking back it was the right move as it made Mr. McMahon. But then everyone was pissed...Mick Foley almost walked out as he detailed in his book. (Jim Ross talked to him).

Bret also didn't want to lose in Canada. That was his biggest reason for not wanting to drop the belt at Survivor Series.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

As Day #5 ended for Punk/Cabana vs Dr. Armann in court some of the most comical silly aspects..


- The Doctor's lawyer kept presenting the wrong text messages as AJ Lee would have to correct him...numerous times on the stand. He did this 2-3 times during exchanges. Possibly as a scheme to trip her up and instead looking foolish himself.


- The Doctor's lawyers called a massage therapist who worked on Punk and this BACKFIRED in epic scale. She saw the lump and had worked on Punk over 20 times in 2013/2014. She testified she law the lump and described the size. The lawyer tried to ask about the weather effecting this lump as the massage expert reportedly said.."I don't know the weather from the days he'd come exactly." They also tried a tactic where they brought up how close the place was to an airport. This was told to stop because...it really had no impact on anything.


http://www.mandatory.com/wrestlezone...fternoon-notes


The judge told the jury closing arguments will be tomorrow so they can go decide a verdict.


But lets be real here....thus far what we have learned.


- The doctor is still employed by WWE and suffered no negative backlash. In fact pro wrestlers joked about it with him.

- His only claim of mental distress came from unnamed people online he claims.

- AJ Lee backed up the text messages , the lump changing through 2013 as she claimed.

- The massage therapist they called to the stand backs it up...there was a lump.


In all ...even if you don't like CM Punk ....the doctor really doesn't deserve anything from this. Nothing he said was proven. In fact his own lawyer comically destroyed his case.

[XPac]

Bret also didn't want to lose in Canada. That was his biggest reason for not wanting to drop the belt at Survivor Series.

I think the problem is Bret is a mark for himself. He literally views himself as some sort of Canadian super hero or something.

[steve2275]

https://twitter.com/JDfromNY206/stat...51715052769280
tacos over raw? LOL

[Ronin705]

As Day #5 ended for Punk/Cabana vs Dr. Armann in court some of the most comical silly aspects..


- The Doctor's lawyer kept presenting the wrong text messages as AJ Lee would have to correct him...numerous times on the stand. He did this 2-3 times during exchanges. Possibly as a scheme to trip her up and instead looking foolish himself.


- The Doctor's lawyers called a massage therapist who worked on Punk and this BACKFIRED in epic scale. She saw the lump and had worked on Punk over 20 times in 2013/2014. She testified she law the lump and described the size. The lawyer tried to ask about the weather effecting this lump as the massage expert reportedly said.."I don't know the weather from the days he'd come exactly." They also tried a tactic where they brought up how close the place was to an airport. This was told to stop because...it really had no impact on anything.


http://www.mandatory.com/wrestlezone...fternoon-notes


The judge told the jury closing arguments will be tomorrow so they can go decide a verdict.


But lets be real here....thus far what we have learned.


- The doctor is still employed by WWE and suffered no negative backlash. In fact pro wrestlers joked about it with him.

- His only claim of mental distress came from unnamed people online he claims.

- AJ Lee backed up the text messages , the lump changing through 2013 as she claimed.

- The massage therapist they called to the stand backs it up...there was a lump.


In all ...even if you don't like CM Punk ....the doctor really doesn't deserve anything from this. Nothing he said was proven. In fact his own lawyer comically destroyed his case.

There's also the patient/doctor confidentiality breach, and punk not signing the proper papers. Both could land amann on some sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

[TheInvisibleMan]

I think the problem is Bret is a mark for himself. He literally views himself as some sort of Canadian super hero or something.

I think partly that and partly the personal issues with Shawn

if it was anyone else, it might not have been a big deal

I believe to this day that Vince did everything he thought he could to resolve this to everyones satisfaction, it didnt happen, so he made what he thought was the best decision for his company

[SUPERECWFAN1]

There's also the patient/doctor confidentiality breach, and punk not signing the proper papers. Both could land amann on some sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

Yeah Punk's no angel in this and he likely over-reacted to the lump sure on the podcast. But the doctor here claims he suffered from this and he admitted he suffered nothing negative job wise from it and he'd joke with wrestlers about this after it. This was like some cash in attempt and its only brought him negative attention. I have to think he'll be quietly fired after the case is over.