All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!(Part II)

[Tami]

On the topic of a nation wanting more independence, do you know who is the biggest trading partner of the UK?

The United States. Headed by Donald John Trump.

Do you think Trump, or any other member of his Front National nativist clique, will offer us a decent trading deal, without strings attached? What price will he extort? What price will other nations extort?

We're not going to get more independence. We are going to get less.

We've sacrificed our economic well being and international autonomy... for what? Was this what it all amounted to - a blue passport, and a slogan on a bus?

Sometime you learn these lessons too late, though not too late to reverse course. It gives me a new appreciation for the EU, as imperfect as it might be, and for organizations like NATO and the UN.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Sometime you learn these lessons too late, though not too late to reverse course. It gives me a new appreciation for the EU, as imperfect as it might be, and for organizations like NATO and the UN.

All of which Trump wants to destroy at the behest of his BFF Bad Vlad.

[worstblogever]

All kinds of chaos unfolding in the UK this morning as the Brexit secretary resigns amongst many others, it's looking unlikely Teresa May's Brexit deal draft will be passed in parliment

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-46200010

The pattern in global politics is this... hard-line conservatives who use bigotry and promises that can't be kept due to them being obscene lies manage to win office due to outside influence campaigns, and then once those conservatives get power... those with the reins are too stupid to actually be able to do anything with it other than punch themselves in the face until the liberals in said country take the power back.

[JackDaw]

Theresa May put the Brexiteers in charge of the Brexit process - Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary, David Davis as Brexit Secretary, and Liam Fox as Trade Secretary (although in practice the last of these has had nothing real to do because he can't conclude independent trade deals yet). Johnson resigned after the Chequers approach was announced, as did Davis. Raab, Davis' replacement, has resigned now.

It's not a question of the people being in charge not believing in the promised land of Unicorns... it's that none of them want to be responsible for the dirty deal of doing a deal. None of them. They've run away.

During the Referendum campaign we were told by Johnson and Hannan that it was easy. We were told that the EU would strike a brilliant deal with us, because we were a large economy and they needed our trade. Afterwards some Brexiteers have said, ah well, if we crash out without a deal, we can be on WTO terms and it will be fine (it won't be).

Now we come to the point of realising a deal that the Brexiteers themselves have campaigned for, none of them want to own it. They want to shout from the sidelines and claim betrayal, because that will be politically more easy than going to the voters and saying, "I'm sorry, you know that time we said that it would be easy and we would get everything we asked for? Turns out that we were wrong".

There are a number of common sense things I would have expected Mrs May's (or David Cameron) government to do IF they had been really committed to implementing the democratic mandate as efficiently as possible....which were not done.

I could cite many examples, but I'll quote the main four:-

1/ I would have expected..given obvious importance to UK of thing going smoothly...that Cabinet would have met right at start of process (i.e. before serving Article 50 notice) for as long as necessary to get complete agreement on what they wanted ultimate UK/ EU relationship to be after exit. Was aim a Canadian free trade type agreement, or Norwegian model, or whatever? If that took Cabinet a week, two weeks, a month of meeting day after day..it should have been done. They had nothing more important to do!

2/ Work on exactly what would happen if we came out without a deal and traded on GATT terms should have been similarly started immediately. For two reasons. First so we had an exact basis for judging what was a "good deal" (i.e. better than no deal) and what was a bad deal (i.e. worse than GATT.) Secondly doing that right at outset would have put a bit more pressure on EU negotiating team...they would know they had to at least offer some improvement on "no deal".

3/ Work should have started on creating cross party teams to work on specific important areas, such as NI/ Ireland border arrangements.

4/ Some one more clued up and dynamic than David Davies should have been put in charge of exit dept.

None of that was rocket science. It should all have been done IF government really wanted exit to be a success. They didn't...they have sabotaged it.

Let me give an analogy for our American friends. If USA had a referendum on Universal Healthcare...and the people wanted just that...what would would happen if Republicans were put in charge of work to implement the decision?? Answer: they would sabotage it, to make it appear the referendum decision was crap....

[Starter Set]

The referendum decision was crap.

I'm all for democracy and stuff but you don't let mostly uninformed (i mean, come on, how many Brits do know something actually real about how Europe works and how it impacts their country?) and so easily manipulated people to take such an important economical and political decision.

That's irresponsible.

[Tami]

The referendum decision was crap.

I'm all for democracy and stuff but you don't let mostly uninformed (i mean, come on, how many Brits do know something actually real about how Europe works and how it impacts their country?) and so easily manipulated people to take such an important economical and political decision.

That's irresponsible.

Was there even an attempt to educate the population regarding the pros and cons of Brexit ahead of time? If so, they probably did a very bad job of it.

[JackDaw]

Was there even an attempt to educate the population regarding the pros and cons of Brexit ahead of time? If so, they probably did a very bad job of it.

Yes, of course.

And in the months before the vote:-

1/ I read three daily papers including the Times, viewed the Daily Politics program on BBC, and listened to a lot of radio.

2/ Most of my family and friends did similarly.

A lot of people on both sides of the debate took it seriously. Certainly my extended family and close friends took it seriously...and after all that we voted different ways..but large majority of us could see pros and cons on both sides...and certainly there's been no subsequent rancour within the family about voting differently.

If anybody believes that there was an overwhelming reason why it was obvious that there was only one "right" way to vote...then I suspect nothing I can say will alter that certainty. But I do suspect my "doubt" was reached after a more rigorous examination of the relevant facts and arguments than those who are certain their view is correct.

[Tazirai]

The #FiveWhiteGuys Are Offering a Sucker's Bet to Anti-Pelosi Democrats

Me defending Bernie is bad, but the defense of Pelosi and Hillary and Schumer are baffling... ��

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Meanwhile, back in the Colonies:

Man shouts 'Heil Hitler, Heil Trump' during intermission of Baltimore performance of 'Fiddler on the Roof'

A man shouted a pro-Nazi and pro-Trump salute during a performance of “Fiddler on the Roof” at Baltimore’s Hippodrome Theatre on Wednesday night.

Audience member Rich Scherr said the outburst during intermission prompted fears that it was the beginning of a shooting. The man, who had been seated in the balcony, began shouting “Heil Hitler, Heil Trump.” Immediately after that, “People started running,” Scherr said. “I’ll be honest, I was waiting to hear a gunshot. I thought, ‘Here we go.’”

Police were called and security escorted the man out a few minutes later, a police spokeswoman said, and the show continued. But Scherr, 49, said it was hard to focus on the play after that. “My heart was just racing. I didn’t even really pay attention to the second act.” The man was not arrested, a police spokeswoman said.

[Tami]

For anyone who thought the US was the only country hiring unqualified people for goverment positions

System error: Japan cybersecurity minister admits he has never used a computer

A Japanese minister in charge of cybersecurity has provoked astonishment by admitting he has never used a computer in his professional life, and appearing confused by the concept of a USB drive.

Yoshitaka Sakurada, 68, is the deputy chief of the government’s cybersecurity strategy office and also the minister in charge of the Olympic and Paralympic Games that Tokyo will host in 2020.

In parliament on Wednesday however, he admitted he doesn’t use computers.

“Since the age of 25, I have instructed my employees and secretaries, so I don’t use computers myself,” he said in a response to an opposition question in a lower house session, local media reported.

He also appeared confused by the question when asked about whether USB drives were in use at Japanese nuclear facilities.

His comments were met with incredulity by opposition lawmakers.

“It’s unbelievable that someone who has not touched computers is responsible for cybersecurity policies,” said opposition lawmaker Masato Imai.
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And his comments provoked a firestorm online.

“Doesn’t he feel ashamed?” wrote one Twitter user.

“Today any company president uses a PC. He doesn’t even know what a USB is. Holy cow.”

[BeastieRunner]

Meanwhile, back in the Colonies:

Man shouts 'Heil Hitler, Heil Trump' during intermission of Baltimore performance of 'Fiddler on the Roof'

Not arrested!? For inciting panic!? WTF!?

$10 says if it was a black man going, "BLACK POWER!" He gets dropped by a glock upon arrival of the police.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Except the Brexit campaign was predicated on a pile of lies. Even Boris Johnson's brother has acknowledged this.

That’s on the press and the people for being duped then.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

The referendum decision was crap.

I'm all for democracy and stuff but you don't let mostly uninformed (i mean, come on, how many Brits do know something actually real about how Europe works and how it impacts their country?) and so easily manipulated people to take such an important economical and political decision.

That's irresponsible.

Why? Most of our representatives are stupid, uniformed, and irresponsible.

[Jack Dracula]

The referendum decision was crap.

I'm all for democracy and stuff but you don't let mostly uninformed (i mean, come on, how many Brits do know something actually real about how Europe works and how it impacts their country?) and so easily manipulated people to take such an important economical and political decision.

That's irresponsible.

Let's not forget some of those voters were deliberately misinformed and manipulated into voting for the referendum by Robert Mercer, Steve Bannon and their squad at Cambridge Analytica.
Those two should be doing jail time.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Me defending Bernie is bad, but the defense of Pelosi and Hillary and Schumer are baffling... ��

It’s really not, and a Democrat’s are in for a RUDE awakening if they oust Pelosi. She’s been the most effective Democrat at passing Pbama’s agenda and stopping Trump’s. It’s a big tent party with lots of voices and turmoil and she’s been incredibly successful at building consensus among her colleagues. That’s a huge skill and has been a silver lining in a decade of losing for Democrats.

There’s no guarantee the next person can get the votes and consensus. You could literally piss away the majority in the House on impact if the next leader can’t do that. And it’s not easy. Reid couldn’t do it, Schumer couldn’t do it, and Ryan couldn’t do it.. People need to stop acting like it’s given that people will fall in line under the next person. That hasn’t worked out for this party lately.