Where do we go from here with the Wally West of the new 52 ?

[Godlike13]

Besides Dick, which took a bit, Cyborg the only other Titans they've done alright with in the new 52. Starfire might be on her way too thanks to the new series. Also i still think they could salvage Donna.

[CSTowle]

It's not so simple. What made Wally the popular character he became is largely dependent on the mythos of the Post-COIE DC Universe. Wally West as we knew him would not work in a New 52 DC Universe, or its successor.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Honestly, I'm fine with Barry (no real dog in the fight, other than wanting to correct false assumptions) but I think he's enhanced with the nephew legacy and the rest of the Flash family (Max Mercury, Impulse, Jesse Quick, etc.). I'd be fine with Wally taking up another name and being the Flash equivalent of Nightwing/Grayson. Just want more toys in the toybox, my main complaint about the limiting of such in the New 52 and what I'm hoping they change post-Convergence. Give me more, give me wacky, give me choices. You'll never go wrong that way.

[GlennSimpson]

Because they'd had appearances by Barry (in alternate/time-travelling form) before and it made no difference in sales. And no reason it should, they were just using characters who'd been on the shelf for a while gathering dust to craft a one-off story. If DC actually framed a comic that way, "we're putting up 8 titles starring defunct/dead/limbo-ed characters and you get to tell us who you want to see more of by buying their issue" then that would be a different discussion. As it would for Wally, if they'd framed this one-off story that way instead of labelling his comic with a vague title and barely hyping it beyond describing the contents.

Those with a pro-Barry or reactionist defense of anything DC does ever, right or wrong, would like to paint this as the hypothetical situation I described earlier (show us your interest with your dollars and we'll bring them back!), but it's not. They're Elseworlds/former worlds we're getting a one-shot glimpse at with no consequences other than entertainment. Which is probably why I bought double the tie-in issues than I do regular monthly DC titles. Speed Force wasn't one of them, even though I enjoyed Wally West as the Flash, because I didn't like the creative team on the book. Who's writing and to a far lesser extent who's drawing the book means a lot more to me than who's starring in the book, but I can see bulls##t when it's splattered all over a forum page. I'm just calling it out.

Well, I respect your opinion (although calling mine "bulls##t" might be going too far) but I frankly disagree with your perception with reality on this one area. I think that any comics reader who has a strong preference for a particular Flash (which, as you admitted later, you do not) is going to be looking for appearances by the version they prefer and will have spent enough time reading about the industry to know the contents of the books coming out and that they need to buy the book featuring that character to send a message to the publisher. Or even if they don't, the simple fact is that it is a book featuring the character they like, and therefore they would be prone to be buying it. The fact that "Speed Force" did not sell extraordinary numbers isn't because Wally West fans didn't know Wally was in it or didn't think that it would matter if they bought it. I believe it's because the vast majority of "Flash" fans don't have a sufficiently strong preference one way or the other for Barry vs. Wally (as you don't, and as I don't). There's probably, I dunno, 1000 or 2000 people who care deeply about Wally over Barry but they don't really make that much of an impact in situations like this.

[failo.legendkiller]

I don't think any of the New 52 reinventions/versions of the classic Titans have done very well aside from Dick (and he's only really started kicking off in Grayson now). Just look at what's happening with Donna in Wonder Woman. Heck, Garth's new costume looks pretty good but it seems like he'll be an antagonist in Aquaman like Donna is for Diana.

Honestly, if they were going to bring Wally back at all, race-changed or not, I think they should've done his old character justice by establishing him firmly in Barry's supporting cast and making audiences grow to like and care for him the same way that people love the old Wally. Not by making him a punk kid, and an unintentional stereotype, who audiences couldn't care less for.

Then build him up to becoming the proper Kid Flash of the New 52 and branching him off to other books while making him integral to the main Flash book as he and Barry team-up against the various Rogues. It's not like I've heard much love for Bar-Torr, so I think a new Kid Flash that was Wally and was a well-developed, interesting, and entertaining character would be widely accepted by audiences. As for where his future would be? Who knows.

Garth?!? wait a minute, think i've lost something! Where he appeared?

[PennyDreadful]

Honestly, I'm fine with Barry (no real dog in the fight, other than wanting to correct false assumptions) but I think he's enhanced with the nephew legacy and the rest of the Flash family (Max Mercury, Impulse, Jesse Quick, etc.). I'd be fine with Wally taking up another name and being the Flash equivalent of Nightwing/Grayson. Just want more toys in the toybox, my main complaint about the limiting of such in the New 52 and what I'm hoping they change post-Convergence. Give me more, give me wacky, give me choices. You'll never go wrong that way.

Quoted. For. Truth.

[JustJelly]

Garth?!? wait a minute, think i've lost something! Where he appeared?

The Aquaman sneak peek. But it hasn't been confirmed him, I don't think. Although, he was mentioned during the Geoff Johns run once but never seen.

[CSTowle]

Well, I respect your opinion (although calling mine "bulls##t" might be going too far) but I frankly disagree with your perception with reality on this one area. I think that any comics reader who has a strong preference for a particular Flash (which, as you admitted later, you do not) is going to be looking for appearances by the version they prefer and will have spent enough time reading about the industry to know the contents of the books coming out and that they need to buy the book featuring that character to send a message to the publisher. Or even if they don't, the simple fact is that it is a book featuring the character they like, and therefore they would be prone to be buying it. The fact that "Speed Force" did not sell extraordinary numbers isn't because Wally West fans didn't know Wally was in it or didn't think that it would matter if they bought it. I believe it's because the vast majority of "Flash" fans don't have a sufficiently strong preference one way or the other for Barry vs. Wally (as you don't, and as I don't). There's probably, I dunno, 1000 or 2000 people who care deeply about Wally over Barry but they don't really make that much of an impact in situations like this.

This is the assumption that I believe is wrong. If you're talking about fans who take the time to register here and post on message boards, then yes. Those people know what's going on. If you're talking about most people who visit comic shops, there's no guarantee that they've ever glimpsed a "Previews". Even the ones who have pull lists.

If they visit once a month, or every couple of weeks, they may not have seen "Speed Force". And if they did, they may not have known Wally was the Flash on the cover (or what the difference is between Wally and Barry). Or how it ties into "Convergence" (or that it does). People like me (and you I'm assuming) have above average geekdom when it comes to this hobby, but we're in the minority. We're in the niche of the niche that is this hobby. I'm glad (for myself, anyway) because I think caring about the details enhances my enjoyment of a serialized story, but I know that not all fans are like that. Some just look at the shelf and grab what's interesting, or starring a character they're familiar with (even if that's only "Batman" and they're not as invested in if it's Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, or Commish Gordon wearing the cowl).

[GlennSimpson]

This is the assumption that I believe is wrong. If you're talking about fans who take the time to register here and post on message boards, then yes. Those people know what's going on. If you're talking about most people who visit comic shops, there's no guarantee that they've ever glimpsed a "Previews". Even the ones who have pull lists.

If they visit once a month, or every couple of weeks, they may not have seen "Speed Force". And if they did, they may not have known Wally was the Flash on the cover (or what the difference is between Wally and Barry). Or how it ties into "Convergence" (or that it does). People like me (and you I'm assuming) have above average geekdom when it comes to this hobby, but we're in the minority. We're in the niche of the niche that is this hobby. I'm glad (for myself, anyway) because I think caring about the details enhances my enjoyment of a serialized story, but I know that not all fans are like that. Some just look at the shelf and grab what's interesting, or starring a character they're familiar with (even if that's only "Batman" and they're not as invested in if it's Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, or Commish Gordon wearing the cowl).

And those people you describe probably don't have a strong Wally vs. Barry preference, either. They just like "The Flash".

People who have a preference are a subset of the hardcore, not the other way around.

So either people knew that Wally was in that book and they bought it for that reason and it didn't really make a dent because they are a small number, or people didn't know it was Wally in the book but really didn't care. Either way, there's no reason to take from this that Wally is more popular than Barry or that DC needs to do anything differently than what they are doing.

[colonyofcells]

The flash tv show seems to plan to use lots of speedsters in the next season so looks like african american wally west has a bright future. We might also see live versions of earth 2 jay garrick, earth 3 johnny quick, savitar, tornado twins, future walter west, john fox, etc.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I would just make him an active hero (probably in Flash or in a Teen centered title) and just figure out what nu Wally brings to the table.

[colonyofcells]

Dc you Wally can probably be used in a Titans title.

[CSTowle]

And those people you describe probably don't have a strong Wally vs. Barry preference, either. They just like "The Flash".

People who have a preference are a subset of the hardcore, not the other way around.

So either people knew that Wally was in that book and they bought it for that reason and it didn't really make a dent because they are a small number, or people didn't know it was Wally in the book but really didn't care. Either way, there's no reason to take from this that Wally is more popular than Barry or that DC needs to do anything differently than what they are doing.

See again, this sounds like religious folk (not to say you're a follower of the church of DC or even Barry Allen) when you bring up facts that contradict their teachings. There's no definitive reason to say Wally's more popular than Barry or that DC has done wrong in the way they've handled the situation, but there's also no reason to think that Barry is more popular than Wally and that DC did the right thing in the situation. It's a wash, there's no definitive proof of anything. That was my point. Among the hardcore fans on here I'd say the vast majority would like the familiar Wally West to exist, if not take up the mantle of the Flash. I've seen very few who want the kids, and little to no mention of the Jesse Quicks and Max Mercurys that I mentioned, those are my geeky wishes. I've seen a lot of people upset with the way they've handled Bart, but this is coming off of his way-too-fast (no pun intended) elevation to the status of Flash and his death in the old universe. Saddling him with a poor writer and turning him villain is just the latest setback.

[GlennSimpson]

See again, this sounds like religious folk (not to say you're a follower of the church of DC or even Barry Allen) when you bring up facts that contradict their teachings. There's no definitive reason to say Wally's more popular than Barry or that DC has done wrong in the way they've handled the situation, but there's also no reason to think that Barry is more popular than Wally and that DC did the right thing in the situation. It's a wash, there's no definitive proof of anything. That was my point.

Well, that's fine, but nobody came on here specifically to say "ha ha look at the poor sales on Speed Force, Wally West must suck!" - the narrative began with someone comparing Speed Force sales to sales on the regular Flash series and claiming it as some sort of indication of success.

In other words "they started it."

[CSTowle]

They were definitely wrong then. For what it's worth, I'd love for DC (or Marvel, for that matter) to throw up 20 options of characters that haven't been around in a while, solicit pitches from interested creators, and say "Here's a bunch of books we're going to do a mini of and the top 5 will get ongoings based on your purchases. Now go out and show your support." It'd be stunt-ish, but it'd be a fun stunt (like having voting during the DC vs Marvel crossover in the '90s).

[PennyDreadful]

I would simply prefer to see Wally on TV as a BFF of Barry as of next season. Wally kicking butt and taking names (either as Kid Flash, Flash, Impulse, or something else) sounds more promising than anything in print. Actually, Wally on his own TV earth, a la Jay would rule.

Maybe fans should switch their faith and attention to other media?