X-men by Jonathan Hickman and Leinil Francis Yu Appreciation 2019

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Of course it's not unreasonable. As X-fans we all come into this with certain expectations.
What's unreasonable is not having your expectations met...but still hoping that they will be, when you know (by the reasons you give yourself) they won't ever be.

No offense taken, at all.
I admit, I don't ever interact with the "haterz" in general because they don't offer any substance for their hate.
You are one of the few who do bring something to the discussion...so I am happy to engage.
And to be clear, I do clearly understand your perspective and respect it. And what I'm putting forth is just another option.

I understand, and I appreciate it now that you've clarified; I still don't see it that way though. I need much more convincing on panel/in narrativeand, to be honest, with everyone harping on about how amazing a writer Hickman is, well...I expected more than just "because I said so." It's strange too; everyone's saying these are better stories than what's been happening in the past decade, but I don't agree: I though the teen o5 were much more engaging for the growth and differences they offered those characters, for example. X-Men Blue seemed to have so much more substance on a smaller scope; considering how it got wiped out for this, well...

I think that's where a lot of the criticism comes from too. It doesn't feel justified enough yet so far as wiping out entire lines go. But ya know.

But, seriously; I'm not the only one in the history of ever who's continued to criticise in the face of not having their expectations met. You should check out the Batgirl tags on DC! In many cases, it's actually helped influence writers to a degree on how they approach topics; the fans felt engaged with on the good and the bad.

[Devaishwarya]

I understand, and I appreciate it now that you've clarified; I still don't see it that way though. I need much more convincing on panel/in narrativeand, to be honest, with everyone harping on about how amazing a writer Hickman is, well...I expected more than just "because I said so." It's strange too; everyone's saying these are better stories than what's been happening in the past decade, but I don't agree: I though the teen o5 were much more engaging for the growth and differences they offered those characters, for example. X-Men Blue seemed to have so much more substance on a smaller scope; considering how it got wiped out for this, well...

I think that's where a lot of the criticism comes from too. It doesn't feel justified enough yet so far as wiping out entire lines go. But ya know.

But, seriously; I'm not the only one in the history of ever who's continued to criticise in the face of not having their expectations met. You should check out the Batgirl tags on DC! In many cases, it's actually helped influence writers to a degree on how they approach topics; the fans felt engaged with on the good and the bad.

LOL. True.
X/Spiderman/Batman/Superman-fans will be fans, regardless. It is what it is.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

LOL. True.
X/Spiderman/Batman/Superman-fans will be fans, regardless. It is what it is.

It's passion. In a way, it's a good thing right: we love so much that we just want the best for it?

[Devaishwarya]

It's passion. In a way, it's a good thing right: we love so much that we just want the best for it?

I...guess? Passion has its dark side, though.
But we should understand that what we want, even if it's the "best"...subjectively speaking, is by and large out of our hands and sphere of influence.

[Omega Alpha]

Additionally, the argument of "It's interesting because it's new" doesn't convince me.

I want it to; I understand the reasoning behind it, but I've yet to be convinced on panel outside of "Because Moira said so." Moira saw 9 futures, which for all we know could turn out to be as alternate as Bishop's or Cable's. She is one view point, though she's seen a lot. Unfortunately, I need a bit more than that to be sold on the matter, especially in a medium where seeing alternate universes/futures isn't that new to begin with.

That's because you're wrong if you're thinking those are futures, or alternate ones- everything that happened is in the past, it's history, as much history for the MU as Steve Rogers becoming Captain America or Julius Caesar being murdered in the Ides of March.

Also, most importantly, is the point as to WHY the past was so bleak and mutants always lost- Days of Future Past or Age of Apocalypse had things going badly by just having person X die, but if they avoid this, everyone is safe. House of X and Powers of 10 shows mutantkind being all but extinct or simply being annihilated by machines doesn't happen because Senator Kelly or whatever dies and maybe if they can avoid this or the bad mutants being bad, everything will be fine, but rather because it's the natural cycle of things, regardless of what they do. The X-men can still be the greatest heroes in the world (as in Life 4), try to conquer it and annihilate mankind (life 9), or live in isolation and complete segregation (life 5) and the end would be same.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

That's because you're wrong if you're thinking those are futures, or alternate ones- everything that happened is in the past, it's history, as much history for the MU as Steve Rogers becoming Captain America or Julius Caesar being murdered in the Ides of March.

Also, most importantly, is the point as to WHY the past was so bleak and mutants always lost- Days of Future Past or Age of Apocalypse had things going badly by just having person X die, but if they avoid this, everyone is safe. House of X and Powers of 10 shows mutantkind being all but extinct or simply being annihilated by machines doesn't happen because Senator Kelly or whatever dies and maybe if they can avoid this or the bad mutants being bad, everything will be fine, but rather because it's the natural cycle of things, regardless of what they do. The X-men can still be the greatest heroes in the world (as in Life 4), try to conquer it and annihilate mankind (life 9), or live in isolation and complete segregation (life 5) and the end would be same.

Ok, you're under the assumption that these futures are set in stone. That's what I'm not convinced of and critical of because it's only a relatively small number from one future experienced by one person. Something easily contradicted by Bishop's or Cable's. You're right, it's past and history; but that still doesn't mean it wasn't contradicted.

Same here. It can be just as easily challenged. In fact, the reasoning for Krakoa didn't even need to be so convoluted; it literally could have been, as you said "We need to feel safe." And then have the threats arise from there, same as the resurrection process.

[Omega Alpha]

Again, you're still thinking this as possible futures, rather than an actual past; it's not a future that's set in stone, is something that already happened, and more than once. And there's no "We save person A and everything will be fine", just like like in every time an alterante future come up. That was the whole point of seeing those other lives, that every approach- Xavier's, Magneto's, Apocalypse's, a complete isolationist one, just trying to kill all the Trasks, doesn't matter.

If you just have the X-men move to Krakoa, then it's just the X-men with a new base and still trying to be the model minority fighting the bad minority ones. What Hickman has done is change the game entirely- it's not about the X-men fighting for acceptance and against prejudice, but mutantkind simply delaying the (un)natural march of scientific progress until they become powerful enough that neither mutantkind nor humankind has to be annihilated.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Again, you're still thinking this as possible futures, rather than an actual past; it's not a future that's set in stone, is something that already happened, and more than once. And there's no "We save person A and everything will be fine", just like like in every time an alterante future come up. That was the whole point of seeing those other lives, that every approach- Xavier's, Magneto's, Apocalypse's, a complete isolationist one, just trying to kill all the Trasks, doesn't matter.

If you just have the X-men move to Krakoa, then it's just the X-men with a new base and still trying to be the model minority fighting the bad minority ones. What Hickman has done is change the game entirely- it's not about the X-men fighting for acceptance and against prejudice, but mutantkind simply delaying the (un)natural march of scientific progress until they become powerful enough that neither mutantkind nor humankind has to be annihilated.

And again, I'm still not convinced that future or reality is set in stone. She's been through 9 of them, each varying depending on what she did/didn't do.

As for them moving to Krakoa, not against it, nor am I against the idea of mutants being united--I'm not convinced of the reasoning we've been shown that got us there. One, because it was only told through three character's points of view and because we never got on-panel reaction to anything going on outside of being on Krakoa. We were just told "This is the best," leading me to question "Ok, why." And I don't mean in a meta-sense or from a data page; I mean it's much more effective storytelling to have the characters react on panel and help lead us to those conclusions.

I also don't agree that the idea of acceptance or integration should be tossed out the window, not because mutants owe humans anything, but because of the larger idea of co-existence, but that's another matter entirely.

We're probably not gonna agree on this and I don't wanna fight ok? You have your opinion, you love it, great for you. I'm critical of the premise that's been established still and need to have that convincing done by either Hickman himself on panel or the three books that I actually do adore from this run. Can that just be enough for tonight?

[Devaishwarya]

I only just realised while rereading X-Men delay article...that X-Men 04 featuring Storm and Hisako on the cover and due on January 1st was switched with X-Men 05 with
--/A/-- Magneto and Xavier on the cover.

[AHRNIHAL]

I only just realised while rereading X-Men delay article...that X-Men 04 featuring Storm and Hisako on the cover and due on January 1st was switched with X-Men 05 with
--/A/-- Magneto and Xavier on the cover.

That's actually old news.

[Devaishwarya]

That's actually old news.

I know it is...but I only just realised it...I was under the impression they had only pushed the books back, not shuffled the actual stories also.
ANYways...
I was hoping for more Storm goodness but I'm getting instead the sexxx that is --/A/-- in a suit.
I'm good.

[RachelGrey]

I know it is...but I only just realised it...I was under the impression they had only pushed the books back, not shuffled the actual stories also.
ANYways...
I was hoping for more Storm goodness but I'm getting instead the sexxx that is --/A/-- in a suit.
I'm good.

I think they changed the schedule because they were asked to tie into Incoming which featured Charles, Erik, and -:A:- on the cover.

Also, Gerry mentioned that there was some doubt about whether they were going to get to keep using Storm at all and whether she was going to be made exclusive to the Black Panther comics, but now it looks like they will get to use Storm, but some of her story was pushed forward into 2020 just in case.

[AHRNIHAL]

I think they changed the schedule because they were asked to tie into Incoming which featured Charles, Erik, and -:A:- on the cover.

Also, Gerry mentioned that there was some doubt about whether they were going to get to keep using Storm at all and whether she was going to be made exclusive to the Black Panther comics, but now it looks like they will get to use Storm, but some of her story was pushed forward into 2020 just in case.

That will be so wrong. Where did he mention it?

[The Quiet Councilor]

That will be so wrong. Where did he mention it?

That’s not actually what was said. He wasn’t sure if she’d be going into space and if they’d need to write to accommodate. It wasn’t suggested she’d be exclusive to BP.

[Devaishwarya]

That’s not actually what was said. He wasn’t sure if she’d be going into space and if they’d need to write to accommodate. It wasn’t suggested she’d be exclusive to BP.

Exactatiously.
From what I understood...she was always meant to be a part of HoX-DoX but they held back on pushing the character more directly and probably more meaningfully because...Coates.