On a scale of 0 through 10 how would you rate the morality of X-Characters

[Maestroneto]

Scott (and not only him, mind) , written in character, would have destroyed those damn clouds and **** the Inhumans and the world and what they think of him. If you care too much about your morality to do the right thing for your survival and the ones you love, you're not that moral. Is essentially Captain America's arc in Time Runs Out without the pettiness toward Tony: he cared too much about "doing the right thing" and bring the Illuminati to justice rather than actually do anything about the world dying.

Scott was fine with turning the school into an internment camp for a long time until Messiah Complex hardened his stance.

[Omega Alpha]

Scott was fine with turning the school into an internment camp for a long time until Messiah Complex hardened his stance.

Yeah, but he did, as soon as he realized he had an option and there was actually hope (metaphorically and literally) for mutants.

[Ambaryerno]

The Wolverine Family

Logan: 6+ - Willing to do a lot of morally questionable things, even if it is for a noble purpose. The fact he's also often a hypocrite about it doesn't help.

Laura: 8+ - Has developed into the Cape, swearing off killing as anything other than a last resort. Whereas much of the rest of her family accepts themselves for what they are, Laura strove from the start to become better and do better. She's become something of a mouthpiece for those who've grown tired of the inter-hero conflicts, having come down on Logan over Schism, both sides in AvX, and Cap at the beginning of Civil War 2.

Daken: 4 - A manipulative sociopath largely concerned only with his own self-interests, and willing to do despicable things to achieve them. He gets some bonus points because his relationships with Laura and Gabby have proven there's at least some people he's willing to do the right thing for, and does admit at least SOME regret regarding his poor relationship with his father.

Gabby: 9 - Gabby follows Laura's example, and being probably the least damaged member of the family manages to even find moments where she can call Laura out (see the final arc of the Tamaki book).

Bellona: 5 - Angry, quick to violence, and has no qualms against killing. She was a handful for Laura to keep under control, and willfully slaughtered an entire town of innocent people to further Kimura's goals. The only mitigating factor was that much of what she did was done to protect Gabby.

Raze: 1 - Much like Daken, he's a selfish sociopath and unrepentant killer. Unlike Daken, there's nothing else to balance it out.

[Huntsman Spider]

Scott (and not only him, mind) , written in character, would have destroyed those damn clouds and **** the Inhumans and the world and what they think of him. If you care too much about your morality to do the right thing for your survival and the ones you love, you're not that moral. Is essentially Captain America's arc in Time Runs Out without the pettiness toward Tony: he cared too much about "doing the right thing" and bring the Illuminati to justice rather than actually do anything about the world dying.

Technically, Cap wasn't so much concerned with "the right thing" in Time Runs Out as he was with his personal vendetta against Tony Stark for wiping his memories of the Illuminati after he objected to them blowing up alternate Earths to save their own. He just dressed it up like his motivation was "bringing them to justice," but it was really all about revenge (and selfish revenge, at that), so he wasn't exactly being all that moral, either.

[Omega Alpha]

Technically, Cap wasn't so much concerned with "the right thing" in Time Runs Out as he was with his personal vendetta against Tony Stark for wiping his memories of the Illuminati after he objected to them blowing up alternate Earths to save their own. He just dressed it up like his motivation was "bringing them to justice," but it was really all about revenge (and selfish revenge, at that), so he wasn't exactly being all that moral, either.

And part of Hickman's point was that if often doesn't make that much difference between justice and vengeance. And at that point, Cap clearly lost any sense of morality in the name of upholding it. Which really is probably the boldest character arc anyone ever did with Steve Rogers.

A good contrast was Scott taking Hank back into the fold in Nation X, even if the relationship was clearly strained, and I believe the contrast was intentional.

[Huntsman Spider]

And part of Hickman's point was that if often doesn't make that much difference between justice and vengeance. And at that point, Cap clearly lost any sense of morality in the name of upholding it. Which really is probably the boldest character arc anyone ever did with Steve Rogers.

A good contrast was Scott taking Hank back into the fold in Nation X, even if the relationship was clearly strained, and I believe the contrast was intentional.

So for all of Cap's talk of, "We do not fight what is monstrous by becoming monsters ourselves," he ended up as another example of Nietzsche's famous adage. As for your point about it being "the boldest character arc anyone ever did with Steve Rogers," what about Secret Empire and its aftermath as (finally) addressed in the current run by Ta-Nehisi Coates?

[Snoop Dogg]

Time Runs Out is pretty bold in general since everyone starts going nuts because they lost, but yes, RIP to all future Cap writers who will never top the Supremor Spencer.

[Omega Alpha]

Hydra Cap had mental manipulation via cosmic cube involved, and that cop out ending of Secret Empire with two Captains, making it clear to the world it wasn't really him. Hickman's arc had none of that, it was just Steve losing all morality.

[salarta]

I know the purpose of the thread is for fun, but this is one of the bigger things that I don't think can be quantified with ratings. Characters have too much variation on behavior over time, too many nuanced views of whether something is truly moral or not, etc. In a hostage situation, one person might insist everyone gets out alive knowing it's nearly certain one hostage will die - but that there's a one in a million chance they won't. Another person might think killing the hostage taker is the best course, ensuring the hostage doesn't die. Question then becomes whether it's more moral to gamble with an entirely innocent person's life, or end a guilty one's to save the innocent.

I'm not saying either of these two is actually "right" or even that they're equal, for the record. I'm noting that either one could be considered more moral based on POV. Only example characters on the extremes, e.g. Superman, are easily defined in morals.

[Wolverine12]

The Wolverine Family

Logan: 6+ - Willing to do a lot of morally questionable things, even if it is for a noble purpose. The fact he's also often a hypocrite about it doesn't help.

Laura: 8+ - Has developed into the Cape, swearing off killing as anything other than a last resort. Whereas much of the rest of her family accepts themselves for what they are, Laura strove from the start to become better and do better. She's become something of a mouthpiece for those who've grown tired of the inter-hero conflicts, having come down on Logan over Schism, both sides in AvX, and Cap at the beginning of Civil War 2.

Daken: 4 - A manipulative sociopath largely concerned only with his own self-interests, and willing to do despicable things to achieve them. He gets some bonus points because his relationships with Laura and Gabby have proven there's at least some people he's willing to do the right thing for, and does admit at least SOME regret regarding his poor relationship with his father.

Gabby: 9 - Gabby follows Laura's example, and being probably the least damaged member of the family manages to even find moments where she can call Laura out (see the final arc of the Tamaki book).

Bellona: 5 - Angry, quick to violence, and has no qualms against killing. She was a handful for Laura to keep under control, and willfully slaughtered an entire town of innocent people to further Kimura's goals. The only mitigating factor was that much of what she did was done to protect Gabby.

Raze: 1 - Much like Daken, he's a selfish sociopath and unrepentant killer. Unlike Daken, there's nothing else to balance it out.

Didn't Laura recently eviscerate a T-Rex and brag about it?

I'd say most characters are around a 7. The fact they have all fought to save people that would rather see them dead gives the X-Men a huge boost in morality in my eyes.

[Glio]

Didn't Laura recently eviscerate a T-Rex and brag about it?

I'd say most characters are around a 7. The fact they have all fought to save people that would rather see them dead gives the X-Men a huge boost in morality in my eyes.

But Laura's was weird. Like the fact that in her comic she had promised not to kill and in Inhumans vs. X-Men she was killer happy with innocent inhumans

[Ambaryerno]

Didn't Laura recently eviscerate a T-Rex and brag about it?

I'd say most characters are around a 7. The fact they have all fought to save people that would rather see them dead gives the X-Men a huge boost in morality in my eyes.

Sorry, I thought we were only counting in-character behavior and ignoring the blatantly OOC chaff.

(Also, that T. rex happened to have eaten her, so...)

[Huntsman Spider]

Hydra Cap had mental manipulation via cosmic cube involved, and that cop out ending of Secret Empire with two Captains, making it clear to the world it wasn't really him. Hickman's arc had none of that, it was just Steve losing all morality.

I can see your point there.

Didn't Laura recently eviscerate a T-Rex and brag about it?

I'd say most characters are around a 7. The fact they have all fought to save people that would rather see them dead gives the X-Men a huge boost in morality in my eyes.

I would agree with that last statement as well. Despite any personal moral or ethical failings on the parts of many of the characters who've served as X-Men, the fact that they're fighting for and championing the ideals of a better world where their kind can live in peace with those that would persecute them is still something that elevates them morally above the likes of those who either fight only for their own selfish desires, impulses, and goals, or who fight only to preserve an increasingly untenable and unfavorable status quo while making excuses for why they can't or won't do more than that.

[Ambaryerno]

I would agree with that last statement as well. Despite any personal moral or ethical failings on the parts of many of the characters who've served as X-Men, the fact that they're fighting for and championing the ideals of a better world where their kind can live in peace with those that would persecute them is still something that elevates them morally above the likes of those who either fight only for their own selfish desires, impulses, and goals, or who fight only to preserve an increasingly untenable and unfavorable status quo while making excuses for why they can't or won't do more than that.

I disagree. Doing terrible things for a good cause doesn't change the fact you've done terrible things. Morality isn't just WHY you do things, but HOW you do them. Quoth Mr. Welch: "Killing the orc horde by drowning them all at once is heroic. Killing them by drowning them one at a time is an alignment check."

Or for a more literary reference: The path to Hell is paved with good intentions."

[Snoop Dogg]

Do mutants have souls? I don't think so, tbh.

Hydra Cap had mental manipulation via cosmic cube involved, and that cop out ending of Secret Empire with two Captains, making it clear to the world it wasn't really him. Hickman's arc had none of that, it was just Steve losing all morality.

The alternative to the Cap thing is that either there is no heroic Steve Rogers, which obviously can't last, or Steve just becomes a Winter Soldier rehash and the MU loses a great villain.