Brexit or Britain Stronger?

[Kieran_Frost]

Kieron, I definitely understand your point and there is no denying you're right. However, you are using the extreme examples which I don't think is what Brigonos meant or was referring to.

Thank-you, and your more detailed explanation, certainly gives us food for thought.

The list goes on tbh. So yes, by all means debunk the use of Saddam Hussein in the comparison and of course, we have to remove the idea of ruling by murder. No one thinks that. But similarities do exist. Your use of the term 'democratically voted party' is just as offensive to people like me who know there is no such thing.

I'm going to have to again disagree here, I'm afraid. We do have a democratic election process. And so many in the world do not, and we should show gratitude, not contempt for the privilege we have, that is still (shockingly) denied to so many across the world.

I'm reminded of that beautiful put-down by the glorious LGBT and proud Martina Navratiolova: "Whenever people go into politics and they try to say that Communism was a good thing, I say, 'Go ahead and live in a Communist country then, if you think it's so great, then come back and talk to me about it' "

Leadsom just dropped out.

YEY! Teresa May is our new leader, our second ever female Prime Minister. SO HAPPY.

Theresa May has just dealt a killing blow to the Labour Party. By promising a more left leaning socialist Tory party, she has effectively decimated Corbyn and the entire party..

She's a shrewd politician. To be fair she's doing the same as Blair just from the opposite side, where as he moved his party to the centre, she's now moving hers to the left (though the Tories were pretty close to the centre as it is).

The only problem is Theresa May was a Remain stalwart. Interesting times for our next (female!) Prime Minister.

It's not necessary to be a Leave campaigner. Firstly, while she voted Remain, she wasn't a main Remain fighter. BUT the fact she voted Remain will possibly make negotiations smoother with the EU and the politicians she already has a good relationship with. The key factor is she's confirmed "Brexit means Brexit and we're going to make a success of it." She's a tough politician, but she's damn smart too. VERY excited to have her guide the reigns through these difficult times.

[Brigonos Chomhgaill]

I'm reminded of that beautiful put-down by the glorious LGBT and proud Martina Navratiolova: "Whenever people go into politics and they try to say that Communism was a good thing, I say, 'Go ahead and live in a Communist country then, if you think it's so great, then come back and talk to me about it' "

Well, if Nobel Laureate and philosopher Martina Navratiolova has waded into things with this amazing insight (which you also produced as a rebuff to criticism of the British monarchy, as I recall) with absolutely no holes in its logic, not even the simple matter of context as to when she last lived in such a place post-Glasnost, that is clearly the end of the discussion.

You may also wish to rethink the commie-bashing considering Teresa May just announced a bunch of pinko policies for the financial sector and a whole heap of draconian surveillance measures that even China consider a step too far.

[SilverSurferUk]

Yes, you look at who was associated with Brexit - Duncan Smith, Johnson, Gove & Farrage - and straight away you know you don't want anything to do with that smarmy lot! And look how they've all disappeared into the woordwork, including Cameron, whose fault this all is, trying to appease his backbenchers, as soon as the mess becomes apparent!

[chamber-music]

I hope May drops that draconian authoritarian snoopers charter type stuff. Don't want to live in a Britain that resembles 1984/V For Vendetta

[chamber-music]

Yes, you look at who was associated with Brexit - Duncan Smith, Johnson, Gove & Farrage - and straight away you know you don't want anything to do with that smarmy lot! And look how they've all disappeared into the woordwork, including Cameron, whose fault this all is, trying to appease his backbenchers, as soon as the mess becomes apparent!

Next Prime Minister role is a poisoned chalice. Whatever May negotiates isn't going to please everyone that voted leave. I'm sure the backbenchers will be back to grumble about some new issue in the not too distant future.

[SilverSurferUk]

I think it also includes people who voted Brexit as a protest vote, never really expecting them to win, and I believer the petition was actually started by a Bexiter!

[Kieran_Frost]

Next Prime Minister role is a poisoned chalice. Whatever May negotiates isn't going to please everyone that voted leave. I'm sure the backbenchers will be back to grumble about some new issue in the not too distant future.

People describe a lot of things as a poison chalice. What it really means is it's a tough, difficult situation to tackle. But IF people knuckle down and do their job with all their strength, it can be turned into a huge win. So far (for me) she's saying all the right things. She's tackling the issue head on and doesn't seemed scared of the challenge. All the best to her.

[jeanvaljean]

YEY! Teresa May is our new leader, our second ever female Prime Minister. SO HAPPY.

Not for another 48 hours or so.
Don't celebrate too early. Everything about this Brexit thing has been so fucked up, I would not be surprised if something came out forcing her to step down again. It's all so fucking hysterical, as James Bond said.

[Deadxman]

The only problem is Theresa May was a Remain stalwart. Interesting times for our next (female!) Prime Minister. I wonder how she and Mrs. Clinton will get along?

You mean when she stops there on her way to united states embassy in Siberia as a Trump appointer Ambassador?

[jeanvaljean]

You mean when she stops there on her way to united states embassy in Siberia as a Trump appointer Ambassador?

What is a Trump Appointer?
And are you really under the impression that Siberia is a country?

[Coin Biter]

I hope May drops that draconian authoritarian snoopers charter type stuff. Don't want to live in a Britain that resembles 1984/V For Vendetta

She probably wants to copy the New Labour formula - inclusive rhetoric, hardline approach on surveillance/law and order. And also, most Home Secretaries - former or current - are profoundly illiberal.

We'll get an inkling as to how seriously she means it when we see her new Cabinet. If she has a high profile role for David Davis, for example, then she may have to square further powers for the state with his instinct.

If she recruits the most red in tooth and claw Brexiters, then... welcome to the Panopticon

[Coin Biter]

Leadsom just dropped out.

On the one hand, Leadsom as PM would have been a disastrous choice. Confidence in the economy would have tanked, and given her backers/advocates/obvious social conservatism, in effect we would have had a UKIPisation of the Conservative Party.

On the other hand, there is a chance the Government might have collapsed as up to 20 resignations were mooted, so...

We'll never know now.

[Deadxman]

What is a Trump Appointer?
And are you really under the impression that Siberia is a country?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ctica/RealLife

[Coin Biter]

I have a great deal of love for Neil, but I am genuinely at a loss as to what the Blairite faction thinks it's achieving in trotting out the guy who kept Labour out of power for 9 years and lost at least one general election that was widely considered a slam dunk. For decades afterwards, the official explanation for the 1992 loss was pretty much "we lost because magic, that's why", with Kinnock's effervescent greeting at the Sheffield Rally blamed for breaking some kind of spell on the electorate after years of his building up an image of a dour Welsh accountant.



There won't be a contest. Although the Blairites insisted a few years ago on rule changes that guarantee the incumbent leader appears on the ballot during any leadership challenge (as a counter to disproportionate union influence in the wake of the Milliband boys' falling out), it's more or less certain that the NEC will refuse to put Corbyn on the ballot regardless of the party rules or legal advice otherwise. Eagle practically said as much during her rambling interview earlier today.

On Kinnock, the Sheffield Rally might have been a factor, but I think the turning point in that election was the overthrow of Thatcher and takeover of Major. Under Thatcher, the Tories would have lost; under Major they won. It's true that Kinnock didn't win a general election, but neither has any other Labour leader since Jim Callaghan - except of course, A. C. L. Blair. As to Kinnock's current attitude, despite his disavowal of the Momentum/Militant comparison, it seems impossible that his struggles in the 80s haven't at least coloured his attitude towards Corbyn's leadership.

Personally, I think that the NEC are going to be hard-pushed to deny Corbyn's right to stand in the leadership election. The rulebook is unclear but it does refer to "potential challengers" needing nominations, rather than the incumbent, so a legal challenge might have relatively strong grounds - even if it wasn't ultimately successful, Corbyn would have at least an arguable case. In those circumstances, the NEC are going to have to be very bold to deny Corbyn a place in the leadership election.

I guess we'll find out shortly in a few hours, though Given the last few weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't another crazy political twist in store today.

[Deadxman]

On Kinnock, the Sheffield Rally might have been a factor, but I think the turning point in that election was the overthrow of Thatcher and takeover of Major. Under Thatcher, the Tories would have lost; under Major they won. It's true that Kinnock didn't win a general election, but neither has any other Labour leader since Jim Callaghan - except of course, A. C. L. Blair. As to Kinnock's current attitude, despite his disavowal of the Momentum/Militant comparison, it seems impossible that his struggles in the 80s haven't at least coloured his attitude towards Corbyn's leadership.

Personally, I think that the NEC are going to be hard-pushed to deny Corbyn's right to stand in the leadership election. The rulebook is unclear but it does refer to "potential challengers" needing nominations, rather than the incumbent, so a legal challenge might have relatively strong grounds - even if it wasn't ultimately successful, Corbyn would have at least an arguable case. In those circumstances, the NEC are going to have to be very bold to deny Corbyn a place in the leadership election.

I guess we'll find out shortly in a few hours, though Given the last few weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't another crazy political twist in store today.

$5 on the Queen Dissolving everything and Brings back the Empire!