Barbara Gordon: Batgirl, Oracle Appreciation 2020

[Robanker]

Barbara was infinitely more interesting as Oracle than Batgirl (and I like her as Batgirl), so more time in the chair is good with me.

[Flash Gordon]

The current BATMAN run is running entirely off fan service and nostalgia.

[Frontier]

The current BATMAN run is running entirely off fan service and nostalgia.

Not much different than the previous run then, just instead of BatCat fanservice and nolstalgia, it's now spread broader across the entire Batfamily.

(Well, and Harley).

[RedQueen]

With Batgirl cancelled, and the mantel going to Cass, and no BoP for Oracle, my big question is what are they planning on doing with Babs now?

I'm happy for Cass, and I do think she is the best successor, but I just don't know where they can put her if they're not going to commit to Oracle?

If they would, I'd like to see her get a new mantel, like Nightwing when he grew out of Robin.

[Konja7]

With Batgirl cancelled, and the mantel going to Cass, and no BoP for Oracle, my big question is what are they planning on doing with Babs now?

I'm happy for Cass, and I do think she is the best successor, but I just don't know where they can put her if they're not going to commit to Oracle?

If they would, I'd like to see her get a new mantel, like Nightwing when he grew out of Robin.

We don't know if Cassandra is Batgirl. She is using a suit pretty similar to her old Batgirl suit, but she could still be called Orphan in that suit.

Honestly, I really doubt Cassandra will become Batgirl in an adventure that she shares with Stephanie. That would need an independent story.

The solicitations for Detective Comics #1032 still call Cassandra as Orphan.


Also, Barbara in her Batgirl suit will still appears in Detective Comics #1030 (Cass will appear with her new suit too):
EgXpdhyWsAAvRGT.jpg

So, unless this adventure in Detective Comics is before her retirement in Batgirl #49, Barbara will continue to be Batgirl.

[Flash Gordon]

Not much different than the previous run then, just instead of BatCat fanservice and nolstalgia, it's now spread broader across the entire Batfamily.

(Well, and Harley).

I didn't care for the previous run either (outside of a few solid stories in the first half), but King sure did the opposite of fan service. I appreciated that. The Bat/Cat stuff was a story choice, not fan service.

The current book is just full of "remember when!!!!" which is the lowest form of conversation.

[Godlike13]

We don't know if Cassandra is Batgirl. She is using a suit pretty similar to her old Batgirl suit, but she could still be called Orphan in that suit.

Honestly, I really doubt Cassandra will become Batgirl in an adventure that she shares with Stephanie. That would need an independent story.

The solicitations for Detective Comics #1032 still call Cassandra as Orphan.


Also, Barbara in her Batgirl suit will still appears in Detective Comics #1030 (Cass will appear with her new suit too):
EgXpdhyWsAAvRGT.jpg

So, unless this adventure in Detective Comics is before her retirement in Batgirl #49, Barbara will continue to be Batgirl.

I assume if Cass was becoming Batgirl again they’d do a little more prep work in building Cass out of her current irrelevancy before hand, but at the same time I look at Tim. DC will take a character at there lowest and throw the them back into a role, with little build up, and think people will give a crap.

[Konja7]

I assume if Cass was becoming Batgirl again they’d do a little more prep work in building Cass out of her current irrelevancy before hand, but at the same time I look at Tim. DC will take a character at there lowest and throw the them back into a role, with little build up, and think people will give a crap.

In fact, it is pretty possible Tim isn't Robin even with the Robin suit.

So far, Tim has been called Drake or Red Robin (in a caption) even when he is using the Robin suit.

[Frontier]

I didn't care for the previous run either (outside of a few solid stories in the first half), but King sure did the opposite of fan service. I appreciated that. The Bat/Cat stuff was a story choice, not fan service.

The current book is just full of "remember when!!!!" which is the lowest form of conversation.

The way it was depicted and implemented in the run was definitely fanservice in my opinion.

I think it's less of just banking on nostalgia and more using it as a means of building characters back up.

[Pohzee]

The way it was depicted and implemented in the run was definitely fanservice in my opinion.

I think it's less of just banking on nostalgia and more using it as a means of building characters back up.

I think there is a pretty big difference in referencing emotional moments from characters' histories to evoke emotions from both the characters and the reader and using those emotional beats to drive the story forward and restoring previous status quos without strong logical or emotional reasoning behind it. Whether or not it is moving backwards to drive the characters forwards remains to be seen, but right now it seems like a definite and somewhat sloppy (or at least ill-justified) regression for the sake of nostalgia. I never got the feeling from King's run that he was trying to reset Batman's story to a previous era. Instead it was pretty clear that he was trying to move it forward, and while that idea was well received (especially compared to the rest of his run) I wouldn't call it nostalgia or fanservice.

[Godlike13]

Nevermind.

[Morgoth]

I can say that Barbara Gordon is going to be an absolutely central character for the rest of this year, and next year. If you’ve been missing Oracle in the Bat-verse like I have, I think you’re going to be very excited where things go from here…

https://jamestynioniv.substack.com/p...g-the-momentum

[Frontier]

I think there is a pretty big difference in referencing emotional moments from characters' histories to evoke emotions from both the characters and the reader and using those emotional beats to drive the story forward and restoring previous status quos without strong logical or emotional reasoning behind it. Whether or not it is moving backwards to drive the characters forwards remains to be seen, but right now it seems like a definite and somewhat sloppy (or at least ill-justified) regression for the sake of nostalgia. I never got the feeling from King's run that he was trying to reset Batman's story to a previous era. Instead it was pretty clear that he was trying to move it forward, and while that idea was well received (especially compared to the rest of his run) I wouldn't call it nostalgia or fanservice.

I don't think those emotional moments made cohesive sense all put together within King's run, they were mostly just there to continue trying to build up the romance that was central to his run and to appeal to the BatCat shippers in my opinion. Which I think at times came at the expense of the story and, honestly, Batman's character who seemed to regress to a state from before the Batfamily was even a thing or before he had any serious character development.

At least with what Tynion seems to be doing we're getting characters in a state where they hopefully will continue to build themselves back up to the state they were in before a reboot reset them.

https://jamestynioniv.substack.com/p...g-the-momentum

Well, this will probably excite or disappoint you depending on your opinion on Oracle.

[Godlike13]

Look at Cass and Steph, hell look at Nightwing. Things with Tyrion has a habit of bringing stuff back just for the sake of bringing it back, but then don’t actually go anywhere or build them back up. Bringing Oracle back just to bring it back won’t be good for Oracle. If they bring Oracle back, bring it back right. It no longer has the same platforms it once had. Things aren’t the same anymore. So they need to build new things to facilitate Oracle as something to actually be excited about. Rather then just have Batman give her a suitcase with a laptop and tell her to be Oracle again for instance. This run so far creates hype that it doesn’t really follow through with.

[Konja7]

Well, this will probably excite or disappoint you depending on your opinion on Oracle.

Even between the people who like Barbara as Oracle, it could give different feelings depending what aspect of Oracle they like.

If they like the aspect that Oracle is representation for disabled people, they will likely still be disappointed, since it seems she will still be able to walk.

If they like the hacer aspect or the maturity (she is allowed in that role), they will likely be excited. I'm excited about the prospect.


PS: Not to mention that Barbara could be Batgirl and Oracle at the same time.