Didio And Lee On The Fate Of Imprints And How DC Looks At Sales

[Zaresh]

Read the rest here.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/dc-comics-to...rin-1837070776

Well, as far as I know, and by those quotes, I think I agree to some degree with Didio and Lee. And concerning digital sales, as far as I know, the digital market for books is passing through a similar uncertainty, but instead of subscriptions, the stale state of low purchasings is the reason why it seems like that market isn't finally taking off. As far as I know, I mean: just what I've read here and there.

[Lee Stone]

You’re not even buying a digital comic. You’re paying for the license to read it. If DC ever cuts off comiXology all your digital books could vanish in an instant. This has happened with movies on like iTunes. People don’t realize you don’t own digital copies. I buy a lot of digital books, but I buy physical copies of stuff I really want to keep. Cause inevitably the digital ones are going away.

Not so sure about that.
DC lost the contract for Deus Ex and removed them from Comixology before I bought the last half of the mini-series.
I still have the first half that I can read on Comixology.

The New52 'Sneak Peek' books have long since been removed and I can still access them.

I think Comixology is handling things much like Amazon, where if you buy something and it's removed you can still access it.
It would take Comixology's demise to get rid of them.

And then, some publishers offer cbz backups with the files on Comixology.

Even then, anyone can easily back up their own comics.
I sometimes do it just to recolor them because I don't like some modern coloring.

[Yoda]

Not so sure about that.
DC lost the contract for Deus Ex and removed them from Comixology before I bought the last half of the mini-series.
I still have the first half that I can read on Comixology.

The New52 'Sneak Peek' books have long since been removed and I can still access them.

I think Comixology is handling things much like Amazon, where if you buy something and it's removed you can still access it.
It would take Comixology's demise to get rid of them.

And then, some publishers offer cbz backups with the files on Comixology.

Even then, anyone can easily back up their own comics.
I sometimes do it just to recolor them because I don't like some modern coloring.

Interesting. That’s comforting to hear. I wonder if the same would be true if the entire company pulled out of comiXology. My worry would be that they pull out of ComiXology for DC Universe if that’s now the more successful channel for digital comics. Or at least the one growing.

[Clark_Kent]

Interesting. That’s comforting to hear. I wonder if the same would be true if the entire company pulled out of comiXology. My worry would be that they pull out of ComiXology for DC Universe if that’s now the more successful channel for digital comics. Or at least the one growing.

I don't know this for a fact, but I think it would be similar to how it works for digital games. For example, a number of years ago a remastered "TMNT 4: Turtles In Time" was released on Xbox 360. Eventually, the company that made it lost the TMNT license so the game was removed from the marketplace. I had purchased a digital copy, though, and even though it's not on the marketplace I can delete it and reinstall it as many times as I want and it's still there.

Even if DC pulled out of comixology completely, Comixology would more than likely retain the books on servers somewhere...they would not be accessible to new buyers, but they would be there for the people who already bought them.

[Lee Stone]

Interesting. That’s comforting to hear. I wonder if the same would be true if the entire company pulled out of comiXology. My worry would be that they pull out of ComiXology for DC Universe if that’s now the more successful channel for digital comics. Or at least the one growing.

I don't think they would pull out of Comixology for DC Universe for a few reasons.

It gives an alternate purchasing option for people not wanting to subscribe.

New issues aren't available on DCUniverse for a year after release.

Non-DCU imprints aren't included.

DCUniverse is piggy-backing off of the digitized comics made for Comixology.
They get the same files made for Comixology.

Amazon owns Comixology. Losing DC (or Marvel) would be devastating.

If DC did pull out of Comixology, it would only tarnish trust in digital and could likely jeopardize DCUniverse's own future.

[Aahz]

Launching new books with zero lead-in, almost always fails. Especially in the modern age where there's so much competition.

The way it was done was anyway strange, it was first presented as connected to "Metal" but the books had not really much to do with the event.
I'm anyway sceptical even that would have helped, stuff like Bloodlines was also not really a success, appart from Hitman, but that book might have done well even without Bloodlines.

Losing a creator after one arc or less is a bad sign and readers will quickly abandon if they think the creators already did.

If you look at the sale numbers it seems that the readers had from the start not much interest.


It seems anyway that really tying to "engineer" the success of a character doesn't rarely work out, it workes usually only with Legacy characters, and DC has imo reached a point where it becomes hard to add new legacy characters, since there are already to many.
I think in a lot of cases it was more an accident that characters became popular.

[Yoda]

I don't think they would pull out of Comixology for DC Universe for a few reasons.

It gives an alternate purchasing option for people not wanting to subscribe.

New issues aren't available on DCUniverse for a year after release.

Non-DCU imprints aren't included.

DCUniverse is piggy-backing off of the digitized comics made for Comixology.
They get the same files made for Comixology.

Amazon owns Comixology. Losing DC (or Marvel) would be devastating.

If DC did pull out of Comixology, it would only tarnish trust in digital and could likely jeopardize DCUniverse's own future.

That all makes sense. I mean, even if the sales are flat, which implies they are stable at least, it seems like an almost effortless expansion of their sales base. Books are all produced digitally now, so production costs have to be negligible. No shipping costs. Minimal advertisement. Comixology likely bears all the storage and distribution costs, which again have to be relatively negligible compared to real comics. And they are charging the same price.

[Lee Stone]

The way it was done was anyway strange, it was first presented as connected to "Metal" but the books had not really much to do with the event.
I'm anyway sceptical even that would have helped, stuff like Bloodlines was also not really a success, appart from Hitman, but that book might have done well even without Bloodlines.

If you look at the sale numbers it seems that the readers had from the start not much interest.


It seems anyway that really tying to "engineer" the success of a character doesn't rarely work out, it workes usually only with Legacy characters, and DC has imo reached a point where it becomes hard to add new legacy characters, since there are already to many.
I think in a lot of cases it was more an accident that characters became popular.

True.
I believe DC had no real intentions to actually use any of the characters from Bloodlines.
DC and Marvel obviously both did those Annuals in 1993 simply to trademark as many superhero names as a reaction to Image and Valiant encroaching on their territory.

Hitman just happened to have stuck. Probably because it was Ennis.

[superduperman]

My understanding with Bloodlines was that the original idea was that DC wanted to compete with Image and more or less ordered creative teams to make up their own characters BUT DC would still own the rights. This wasn't exactly conducive to inspiring the best work from the creators so most of them half assed it and threw something together. So you ended up with characters that nobody wanted to use again anyway. I'm going mostly off of what Mike Grell said about what was going on at that time so take that for what you will. I find the idea that AT&T may have no use for DC at all more disturbing than anything else in all this. Assuming it's true. Forbes isn't some rando site.

[Restingvoice]

I've always wondered about digital issues.
Why wouldn't you try something like having the issues read by voice actors?
Make it something different to encourage people to give it a whirl.
Hell, how many people would buy a digital Batman comic if DC had Kevin Conroy reading Batman's lines?
Mark Hamill reading lines for the Joker and Trickster.
Michael Ironside reading Darkseid?

I know, big names big costs. But it wouldn't take very long to read for 6 issues worth of lines.
Take advantage of the medium, they don't HAVE to be static when they're on the digital platform. Take advantage of it!

Audiobooks are successful because there's nothing to look at, there's no art, so you can just listen to it while cleaning the house or on the bus, but with comic, you still need to look at the art, and sometimes you wanna pause to admire it or you just wanna hurry up, so it's just better in general if you're the one turning the page. Otherwise, it just looks like an unfinished movie. A cinematic.

Some online Korean comic use background music and sound effects that turned on or off as you scroll down, but that's it. You're still the one turning the page. So it's actually a pretty good way to read since you're provided with a fitting ambiance chosen by the author instead of having to search one on youtube or Spotify.

[skyvolt2000]

I think the problem that Didio sees, is the lack of success of their new charcters.

I mean just look at "New Age of Heros". They had lots of their big name creators involved with these books, but the only book that had somewhat decent sales was Terrifcs, which was the only book featuring established characters.

And basically all the new characters that had at least some success, were legacy characters or otherwise part of bigger franchise.

And HOW Much of that is on HIM and his gang?

How many books got derailed by editors? How many fan favorites got the limbo, event death or wiped out of existence?
You want me to support new folks yet when I look at your history-it says don't expect much after that solo book or team book.

Lets take the class of Tim, Conner, Kyle, Bart, Cassie, Conor Hawke, Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown & the 1996 Titans.
Or the class of Jaime Reyes, Jason Rusch, Manhunter & Ryan Choi.
Lets go further-Guy, John Stewart, Cyborg, Kyle, Vixen, Bronze Tiger, Ice, Fire, Question, Ronnie Raymond, Titans as a WHOLE, Booster Gold, Legion, Ted Kord & Blue Devil.
How well have they fared since 2009? These folks were NOT failures. Fans did not reject them. Yet some of them represent the WORST or poorly received stories at DC since 2009.

So why would I get excited over folks who might suffer the same fates.

Folks are looking to the past because for many that is the only place to get a decent story with many of the above.
You can't cry about nostalgia when you are messing up the present and future. Which is very unfair many of the decent books DC has. Yet you can't trust leadership to get right.

Maybe Dc needs to follow Hickman's order at Marvel with the X-Men-no more NEW folks. Use who you already have and get them right.

[Dred]

The Trinity were created 2 decades before Barry Allen and Hal Jordan. Are they nostalgia too?

I get the point you're trying to make here, but the answer is yes. Even next generation characters like Wally and YJ are nostalgia at this point. The issue is the only reasonable way to move past all these older characters is to progress past them in storytelling, which is impossible with infinite reversion to a particular status quo and a particular set of nostalgia. Everything that was ever written in the past one point can be labeled nostalgia. The point being made here is not to complain about nostalgia ruining your industry when you run the company by prioritizing personal nostalgia.

[Vakanai]

As a correction to my prior post, digital comics are in fact worth nothing once you purchase and/or read it. You can't resell it or return it.

Even if you pay $3.99 for a comic book and decide to trade it in or sell it to a shop 10 years later for a $1 even just to create space (as I've had to do), at least you're getting SOMETHING in return. But again, the numbers are pointing to the end of the publishing side of the industry which will leave digital as the only viable option even if it's just for IP's.

Kind of disagree - Yes the floppies are doomed to die out, but the publishing side will always live on with trades and graphic novels and the like.

[cranger]

I think the problem that Didio sees, is the lack of success of their new charcters.

I mean just look at "New Age of Heros". They had lots of their big name creators involved with these books, but the only book that had somewhat decent sales was Terrifcs, which was the only book featuring established characters.

And basically all the new characters that had at least some success, were legacy characters or otherwise part of bigger franchise.

I don't know if it is the lack of success of those, but I think what he thinks the problems are would be one reason for that lack of success.

I've read a lot of responses to this, but it seems most of the people who want to comment either have an issue with Dan Didio or feel he is attacking the variant/speculator crowd. Well, I don't care what people think of Dan, this comment could come from anyone and it would hold the same amount of truth. As for variants and speculators, I do not think he is wishing it went away, he is simply pointing out that the industry needs a stable core, and that core is ongoing monthly books, and for that to be stable it needs not to bleed readers issue after issue, or at least it needs to be able to grow readers to counter the loss, making the appearance of a stable readership.

The variants and the speculator revenue should not be turned away, but it has to be seen as a bonus, not something the industry needs to stay alive.

[Lee Stone]

I don't know if it is the lack of success of those, but I think what he thinks the problems are would be one reason for that lack of success.

I've read a lot of responses to this, but it seems most of the people who want to comment either have an issue with Dan Didio or feel he is attacking the variant/speculator crowd. Well, I don't care what people think of Dan, this comment could come from anyone and it would hold the same amount of truth. As for variants and speculators, I do not think he is wishing it went away, he is simply pointing out that the industry needs a stable core, and that core is ongoing monthly books, and for that to be stable it needs not to bleed readers issue after issue, or at least it needs to be able to grow readers to counter the loss, making the appearance of a stable readership.

The variants and the speculator revenue should not be turned away, but it has to be seen as a bonus, not something the industry needs to stay alive.

I agree with the bolded part there.
I think what makes me take pause is that it's Didio saying it.

It's kinda like someone watching a house fire and screaming, 'OMG, my home is burning!' while throwing more wood onto the fire.

I'm waiting to see proof that he believes what he said.