Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[FLEX HECTIC]

My list of complaints...


1. When Black Panther was speed checking Captain America to the frontlines of Infinity War the Russo Brothers could have had him at least three more meters ahead... It's a black thang you wouldn't understand!


2. When Black Panther went Spider-man and scaled the wall to capture Klaw he could have at least pointed his toes more and stuck the landing as he ripped off the tire and flipped the car for more brownie points... The great Simone Biles approves this message!


3. Instead of asking Killmonger to yield the first time he knocked him down he should have cut off his head Conan/Thulsa Doom style and held it up like a Aliens vs Predator trophy to gross out the elders as blood rushed down the waterfall... I mean what was he thinking dragging the movie on longer than he should have helping the villains narrative along!


4. Once M'baku challenged him he should have stabbed him point blank range and got it over with quicker... Who needs a long drawn out fight scene when the option of impaling by surprise is so much better!


5. When Princess Shuri gave him the finger after the "Did he freeze" comment he should have ordered the Doras to take her prisoner and flog her repeatedly for disrespect and claimed her as an enemy of the state... We aint for playing over here keep your jokes to yourself lil girlie!


6. After Killmonger blazed him one to the chest with the rocket launcher he should have called in a Dragonfly airstrike in stealth mode and blew that van the hell up... That or a random Kimoyo bead to stall them out on Fifth Avenue and King Drive just saying!


7. Everybody and I mean everybody should have gotten bodied on his way to Bucky regardless of whether they had their own solo movie upcoming or not... Everybody dies in a haze of bloody vibranium claws no exceptions the BP fans hath spokeneth!


8. Thanos shows up in a sovereign black owned country and does not have to run the jewels... (see Urban Dictionary)

https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...20the%20jewels


9. Straight up and because it's great to be the king T'challa should have snatched W'kabi's woman and added her back into the original "Wives in Training" Dora role just on general principal... Yaw'll know what I'm saying though FRAK all that "Hey Auntie" ish all day every day you don't ride up on people's moms like dat!


10. If that third Dora from the left keeps eyeing the throne all funny like then she should be made to fight Nakia for the right to the throne as queen of Wakanda... Equal rights and all that stuff in this politically charged era!


I'm here all week folks...

[XPac]

Err, what? T'Challa put Hawkeye down, don't know what you're talking about.

None of the thugs T'Challa beat down in his solo movie were half the bad asses Clint was/is

I think Tchalla looked good in both Civil War and his solo. I don't think there's a whole lot to complain about in either in this regard.

[Ezyo1000]

Err, what? T'Challa put Hawkeye down, don't know what you're talking about.

None of the thugs T'Challa beat down in his solo movie were half the bad asses Clint was/is

Hawkeye gets him in a headlock. Also I would say the border tribe is more than half as badass as Clint

[The Cool Thatguy]

Hawkeye gets him in a headlock. Also I would say the border tribe is more than half as badass as Clint

I wouldn't say that. Clint's fought off alien invasions, Ultron robots, what have you. Clint's a certified bad ass.

And once Clint got close to T'Challa? T'Challa put him down and still nearly caught Bucky, his real target.

[Ekie]

I agree with you 100%. The way the BP film was written, T'Challa is BP due to being the oldest child to the king. That and one challenge fight. Or even a line as to why the other tribal champions did not challenge T'Challa. Something as simple as T'Challa has defeated all of the other champions in the past during their specialized training. It would have been more earned if he had to go against each of the tribal champions and then beat M'Baku. Also I just want to see his best attribute in action which is his mind. Specifically his genius and his ability to be several steps ahead of his enemies.

Its THAT missed opportunity that makes me doubt Cooglers love of the character Tchalla most.
Had Tchalla been given a standout moment like fighting every one of those guys showing various Martial arts and battle intelligence feats (minute or two each tops) and then ended with Mbaku!!!!!
Can you imagine?

That what was Missing, and i hope Coogler fixes it.

[Cville]

Its THAT missed opportunity that makes me doubt Cooglers love of the character Tchalla most.
Had Tchalla been given a standout moment like fighting every one of those guys showing various Martial arts and battle intelligence feats (minute or two each tops) and then ended with Mbaku!!!!!
Can you imagine?

That what was Missing, and i hope Coogler fixes it.

I think its more powerful that he doesn't have to fight them all. If they all wanted to challenge than that means they disapprove with his tenure as BP and don't have confidence in his ability to be King. Meaning all the tribes are against him at the beginning of the movie. The fact they don't challenge him means they either think they can't beat him in a fight or they have confidence in his abilities as a leader.

[Chesterfield]

Seriously CW BP is honestly over hyped because when you break it down, he looked cool sure because he is this mysterious quiet character, who is just in Terminator mode, but but that's it. He didn't actually get any solid wins, and frakking Hawkeye gets the upper hand on him? Compare this to his solo where he is rag dolling people left and right?

Also when you only have a small window of time, yeah you can do alot and make a character steal the spotlight, why,? Because they aren't the driving force behind the movie. They aren't the focus. That's why Shuri stick's out, and Mbaku and Okoye. They aren't the focus. You can't make a quiet, Terminator mode T'Challa for 2 hours because then he lacks development. There has to be range. And Honestly I'm surprised how much people ignore that

I don't think people are ignoring that or expecting a 2 hour movie with T'Challa in terminator mode they just want to see a more impressive and engaging showing. Like I mentioned, look at how Cap is presented in EVERY single outing he's had. He didnt lack any development and he sure didn't lack any development in his first film. In Cap 1: First Avenger he was able to convey how effective a strategist he is while putting on a great display of physical skill and prowess, the same thing happened in Winter Soldier but was elevated and changed the game and arguably has the best fight scenes in any comic book movie andcus even regarded as the best comic book movie in the MCU. Then there's the Avengers films and Civil War where Cap is competing for screen time with other and in some cases more interesting characters and still, the man is able to shine in a very distinctive way that doesn't compromise his effectiveness as a character irrespective of the amount of screen time he has.
The same can't be said for T'Challa at all. I also can't identify where he supposedly is "rag dolling people left right and centre" outside of the Nigerian Forest set piece and even then our King loses out to saving the day by getting...distracted by Nakia and its Okoye that cooly steps in to save one of the hostages from a kidnapper at gunpoint who T'Challa was too busy being distracted to realise was still there.

Then there's the boarder tribe who were oddly beating T'Challa's ass like some sort of second rate government mule. If the excuse for him getting his ass largely handed to him is him "not wanting to hurt or kill" his countrymen then he could have at least incapacitated them in a humbling way that showed his skill as a strategist and fighter. He's a master of many forms of martial arts, look at Jason Borne for an example, over the course of 4 movies he only killed about 6 people the rest, he put on an impressive display of combat moves to disarm and incapacitate them. Thats what T'Challa should have done at least. I would have preferred T'Challa to go full on Rama from The Raid on theim, again without killing them but instead he ran head first into the tribe where they were beating on him and hacking away at him with their weapons like he was just some any guy. It was a wasted opportunity of an action set piece to have T'Challa display an array of fighting moves much like the 2 links I posted above but without killing them.

Cap gets to shine without compromising his character and skillet and so should T'Challa. Give me more of his style like the Nigerian Forest scene but done in a way where we can see better whats actually going on and not the clunky and lack of imagination and creativity that we got for the casino fight and his fight with the boarder tribe.

[FLEX HECTIC]

The real problem with Black Panther is that it is a "Family Reunion" type ensemble cast that demands everybody get at least some panel space or screen time by default!


The only remedy is to reduce all the members around him...


If he is a king like Thor was destined to be he would have to Bifrost to other places at random to get away from close family and friends who also need development like Odin, Heimdall and the Warriors Three!


Cap just has Bucky and Sam who are either a nemesis or sidekick friend where as Shuri is an active princess and Okoye an active general of his army!


You would have to literally go back to Lee/Kirby era where Wakanda was not as fleshed out to delete all the potential side stories demanding attention!


I always say it's best to go the traditional Black Panther... Significant Other/Love Interest... Rogues Gallery... Wakanda... Period route and tie up all loose ends!


Wakanda always has "Ensemble" written all over it and you can't feature it as active location and leave other important characters on the sidelines with nothing to do! (actors would quit with no lines of meaning)


James Bond, Batman and Flash Gordon don't have active siblings otherwise you have to stop, drop, roll and develop them on the spot or keep them out completely!


Cant have a whole lot of women in the scene and not give them a voice or a say in the kingdom affairs...





Black Panther: "This-is-WAKANDAaaaaaaaa!"


Do you want Princess Shuri as just plain old eye candy walking around the palace occasionally looking fine but no real voice or rational intelligence and Okoye updating him militarily every other 400th panel or so behind the scenes?


If you don't want the ensemble theme Black Panther would have to ditch his family and friends including the Avengers and ride solo each and every mission and isolate himself David Liss Daredevils style and never look back!


You don't have to worry about whether Cap or Black Widow jobbed him out because he would be so far away from them that it would not ever be a problem to begin with!


Isolation 101 solves all problems moving forward otherwise keep the close relatives close and your enemies closer...


Rant Over...

[Agent Z]

I don't think people are ignoring that or expecting a 2 hour movie with T'Challa in terminator mode they just want to see a more impressive and engaging showing. Like I mentioned, look at how Cap is presented in EVERY single outing he's had. He didnt lack any development and he sure didn't lack any development in his first film. In Cap 1: First Avenger he was able to convey how effective a strategist he is while putting on a great display of physical skill and prowess, the same thing happened in Winter Soldier but was elevated and changed the game and arguably has the best fight scenes in any comic book movie andcus even regarded as the best comic book movie in the MCU. Then there's the Avengers films and Civil War where Cap is competing for screen time with other and in some cases more interesting characters and still, the man is able to shine in a very distinctive way that doesn't compromise his effectiveness as a character irrespective of the amount of screen time he has.
The same can't be said for T'Challa at all. I also can't identify where he supposedly is "rag dolling people left right and centre" outside of the Nigerian Forest set piece and even then our King loses out to saving the day by getting...distracted by Nakia and its Okoye that cooly steps in to save one of the hostages from a kidnapper at gunpoint who T'Challa was too busy being distracted to realise was still there.

Then there's the boarder tribe who were oddly beating T'Challa's ass like some sort of second rate government mule. If the excuse for him getting his ass largely handed to him is him "not wanting to hurt or kill" his countrymen then he could have at least incapacitated them in a humbling way that showed his skill as a strategist and fighter. He's a master of many forms of martial arts, look at Jason Borne for an example, over the course of 4 movies he only killed about 6 people the rest, he put on an impressive display of combat moves to disarm and incapacitate them. Thats what T'Challa should have done at least. I would have preferred T'Challa to go full on Rama from The Raid on theim, again without killing them but instead he ran head first into the tribe where they were beating on him and hacking away at him with their weapons like he was just some any guy. It was a wasted opportunity of an action set piece to have T'Challa display an array of fighting moves much like the 2 links I posted above but without killing them.

Cap gets to shine without compromising his character and skillet and so should T'Challa. Give me more of his style like the Nigerian Forest scene but done in a way where we can see better whats actually going on and not the clunky and lack of imagination and creativity that we got for the casino fight and his fight with the boarder tribe.

T'Challa had only recently been revived from being knocked off a cliff and being put on ice. That he was able to fight at all was a miracle. As for the scene in Nigeria, it was a humorous scene.

[MindofShadow]

Then there's the boarder tribe who were oddly beating T'Challa's ass like some sort of second rate government mule.

He got nearly knocked out by a steroid infused Rhino dude that launched him 100 yards. lol. He was on the ground trying to fully wake up when the boarder tribe mobbed him.

In Cap 1: First Avenger he was able to convey how effective a strategist he is while putting on a great display of physical skill and prowess

Cap vs Red Skull 1: lost as Red Skull escaped after taking a shot from Cap, nearly punching a hole in his shield, and then knocked Cap on his ass. Red Skull won the fight

Cap on train: couldn't save Bucky his best friend

Cap vs Skull 2: couldn't beat him. Skull ended the fight himself picking up the tesseract and getting teleported.

Cap in End: only succeeds by suicide crashing the plane.

In the end, Cap only wins because he is superior physically to a bunch of goons. Oh and the Howling Commandos save him more than once.

See how that works when you are looking for reasons to be offended?

Some of you guys are SO invested in T'challa that you comb through movies looking for reasons to be "offended" where T'challa gets "chumped."

Same things y'all described as "chumped" can be seen as:

Nigeria: casually wrecks the whole place

M'baku: is depowered and defeats a biggest stronger foe through skill while showing compassion and showing off his leadership as a king

Korea: casually wrecks the goons in casino, then wrecks each car showing off his tech and skills before having Klaw dead to rights

Killmonger 1: takes a fight he doesn't want, doesn't go for the kill when he has the chance (i believe twice), gets beaten because of his mistakes against an evenly matched for but is tough enough to not die despite getting stabbed and thorwn down a water fall

Border Tribe: dispatches numerous tribesman with ease, takes now a rhino, takes down a jet

Killmonger 2: doesn't hold back and stabs the dude in the gut, killing him


See how a different perspective changes everything?

[Ekie]

I think its more powerful that he doesn't have to fight them all. If they all wanted to challenge than that means they disapprove with his tenure as BP and don't have confidence in his ability to be King. Meaning all the tribes are against him at the beginning of the movie. The fact they don't challenge him means they either think they can't beat him in a fight or they have confidence in his abilities as a leader.

He didn't have a tenure, his dad did. The most reasonable thing for them to do would have been to test Tchalla and make sure he was worthy. His respect should have had to have been earned rather than hereditary as it was in the movie (Mbaku being the exception).

Btw my critics are only about the handling of Tchalla. Every thing else was good.

A supporting cast can be fleshed out without nerfing the titular character. Bottom line is that someone looked at Tchalla and said "yeah, thats to much" and nerfed him. Taking is intelligence away to prop up Shuri (she was fine with her own capabilities) is akin to letting Pepper Pots make all of Starks suits for him while he cracks jokes and fights.
Is there anyone here who thought Hudlins Shuri was unmarketable or lacking in attributes?

[Ezyo1000]

I don't think people are ignoring that or expecting a 2 hour movie with T'Challa in terminator mode they just want to see a more impressive and engaging showing. Like I mentioned, look at how Cap is presented in EVERY single outing he's had. He didnt lack any development and he sure didn't lack any development in his first film. In Cap 1: First Avenger he was able to convey how effective a strategist he is while putting on a great display of physical skill and prowess, the same thing happened in Winter Soldier but was elevated and changed the game and arguably has the best fight scenes in any comic book movie andcus even regarded as the best comic book movie in the MCU. Then there's the Avengers films and Civil War where Cap is competing for screen time with other and in some cases more interesting characters and still, the man is able to shine in a very distinctive way that doesn't compromise his effectiveness as a character irrespective of the amount of screen time he has.
The same can't be said for T'Challa at all. I also can't identify where he supposedly is "rag dolling people left right and centre" outside of the Nigerian Forest set piece and even then our King loses out to saving the day by getting...distracted by Nakia and its Okoye that cooly steps in to save one of the hostages from a kidnapper at gunpoint who T'Challa was too busy being distracted to realise was still there.

Then there's the boarder tribe who were oddly beating T'Challa's ass like some sort of second rate government mule. If the excuse for him getting his ass largely handed to him is him "not wanting to hurt or kill" his countrymen then he could have at least incapacitated them in a humbling way that showed his skill as a strategist and fighter. He's a master of many forms of martial arts, look at Jason Borne for an example, over the course of 4 movies he only killed about 6 people the rest, he put on an impressive display of combat moves to disarm and incapacitate them. Thats what T'Challa should have done at least. I would have preferred T'Challa to go full on Rama from The Raid on theim, again without killing them but instead he ran head first into the tribe where they were beating on him and hacking away at him with their weapons like he was just some any guy. It was a wasted opportunity of an action set piece to have T'Challa display an array of fighting moves much like the 2 links I posted above but without killing them.

Cap gets to shine without compromising his character and skillet and so should T'Challa. Give me more of his style like the Nigerian Forest scene but done in a way where we can see better whats actually going on and not the clunky and lack of imagination and creativity that we got for the casino fight and his fight with the boarder tribe.

My dude... That's exactly what people are expecting. They go on about how T'Challa was straight up Terminator mode on CW, if ignoring that again, when your not the star of a movie and have a very limited screen time, it's easier to make a character look good without much else needing to be added. Again, that's why people liked Shuri and Mbaku so much, because they made an impact on the short time they had. But it's T'Challa who carries the movie.

Another thing every one is conveniently forgetting is that what do Cap, IM, and Thor a have in common? A weak/ nearly non-existent supporting cast. Thors was so forgettable it changed every single movie, one of the warriors 3 was replaced and most people didn't even notice. T'Challas cast is easily the best ensemble in the MCU.

As for your comparison to Caps presence in Avengers and CW... First CW was Caps movie so it's going to focus on him. Second the Avengers movies focused on Cap Tony and Thor as the big 3. On top of that T'Challa came into the Avengers mix at the end of the infinity saga as well as Marvel not realizing how big a impact BP was going to be. How is he going to get the same focus as Cap Thor and Tony when the last two Avengers movies were their swan song's? A better comparison will be going forward to see how big a presence he makes. The Nigerian set piece, the casino and car chase set piece and the final fight. The only time the border tribes were "oddly beating his ass" was for one scene.. AFTER he got launched, seemingly 100+ yards and still slams into a Boulder with enough force to turn someone's head into mush by a roided out rhino. And even then they weren't doing any real damage to him considering he blew then away without any issue. I truly have no idea where he looked bad at all in that fight. They only slightly get the upper hand very briefly, otherwise he is wrecking them.

Also it's a thing to note your comparing T'Challa to cap when Cap has been in 3 solo movies and 4 Avengers movie's and saying that T'Challa is somehow inferior. Do it when they have been in the same amount of movies if you want to accurately compare evenly

[Cville]

He didn't have a tenure, his dad did. The most reasonable thing for them to do would have been to test Tchalla and make sure he was worthy. His respect should have had to have been earned rather than hereditary as it was in the movie (Mbaku being the exception).

Btw my critics are only about the handling of Tchalla. Every thing else was good.

Tchalla was Black Panther for a decade before the start of the movie.

[Ezyo1000]

He didn't have a tenure, his dad did. The most reasonable thing for them to do would have been to test Tchalla and make sure he was worthy. His respect should have had to have been earned rather than hereditary as it was in the movie (Mbaku being the exception).

Btw my critics are only about the handling of Tchalla. Every thing else was good.

A supporting cast can be fleshed out without nerfing the titular character. Bottom line is that someone looked at Tchalla and said "yeah, thats to much" and nerfed him. Taking is intelligence away to prop up Shuri (she was fine with her own capabilities) is akin to letting Pepper Pots make all of Starks suits for him while he cracks jokes and fights.

No.. because he had been Black panther already for 10 years. It was a new tenure as KING. they already respected him because what he had already done prior to being crowned. Again. If everyone challenged him then it would show a lack of respect or confidence in him, and that they DIDN'T think he was worthy. Which would of also diluted his fight with Mbaku when he showed that not only was he worthy but he was also merciful and respectful to the jabari tribe despite their disagreement

[Blind Wedjat]

He got nearly knocked out by a steroid infused Rhino dude that launched him 100 yards. lol. He was on the ground trying to fully wake up when the boarder tribe mobbed him.



Cap vs Red Skull 1: lost as Red Skull escaped after taking a shot from Cap, nearly punching a hole in his shield, and then knocked Cap on his ass. Red Skull won the fight

Cap on train: couldn't save Bucky his best friend

Cap vs Skull 2: couldn't beat him. Skull ended the fight himself picking up the tesseract and getting teleported.

Cap in End: only succeeds by suicide crashing the plane.

In the end, Cap only wins because he is superior physically to a bunch of goons. Oh and the Howling Commandos save him more than once.

See how that works when you are looking for reasons to be offended?

Some of you guys are SO invested in T'challa that you comb through movies looking for reasons to be "offended" where T'challa gets "chumped."

Same things y'all described as "chumped" can be seen as:

Nigeria: casually wrecks the whole place

M'baku: is depowered and defeats a biggest stronger foe through skill while showing compassion and showing off his leadership as a king

Korea: casually wrecks the goons in casino, then wrecks each car showing off his tech and skills before having Klaw dead to rights

Killmonger 1: takes a fight he doesn't want, doesn't go for the kill when he has the chance (i believe twice), gets beaten because of his mistakes against an evenly matched for but is tough enough to not die despite getting stabbed and thorwn down a water fall

Border Tribe: dispatches numerous tribesman with ease, takes now a rhino, takes down a jet

Killmonger 2: doesn't hold back and stabs the dude in the gut, killing him


See how a different perspective changes everything?

It's like watching the Cap Vs Baltroc fight and then deciding it's a poor showing for Cap because Baltroc (an un-enhanced, no-name villain) knocks him off his feet three times, actually goes toe to toe with him, Cap can't get him to stay down despite two attempts, and then fails to stop him from escaping. We all love the TWS fights, fight? And Cap is a beast in them, right?

This is what nitpicking is like, and a lot of us do it here. Gets on my nerves.