1. #27886
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,539

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    looking at the body cam, I think it was too late for a warning shot. It looked like the other kid was a moment away from being stabbed.
    Oh, come on, too late?

    This isn't some crazed, unstoppable zombie from a horror movie we're talking about, it's a 16 year old little girl. You're seriously trying to tell me you think she wouldn't stop what she's doing if she hears a gun go off at close range? And that pause would be more than enough time for the officer to then use a non-lethal take down.

    Absolutely no one needed to die here.

  2. #27887
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    5,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    Oh, come on, too late?

    This isn't some crazed, unstoppable zombie from a horror movie we're talking about, it's a 16 year old little girl. You're seriously trying to tell me you think she wouldn't stop what she's doing if she hears a gun go off at close range? And that pause would be more than enough time for the officer to then use a non-lethal take down.

    Absolutely no one needed to die here.
    Again if that girl was your daughter and she got stabbed and died I doubt the cop saying “well I could have shot her and ended it immediately but I fired a warning shot and hoped instead, my bad”. He took the action that most quickly and effectively prevented an attempted murder

  3. #27888
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,539

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Again if that girl was your daughter and she got stabbed and died I doubt the cop saying “well I could have shot her and ended it immediately but I fired a warning shot and hoped instead, my bad”. He took the action that most quickly and effectively prevented an attempted murder
    The fact that one of the people who was there at the scene, and very well could have been harmed or killed by the girl with the knife seemed to think shooting her was the wrong calls puts the lie to that statement.

    On top of that, has a single person involved from the incident come forward to refute the guy who said, "you didn't need to shoot her" ? Has a single person involved expressed gratitude to the cop or said he made the right call?

    In case you were wondering, the answer to those questions is a resounding, "No." so let's stop pretending this is some tricky moral quandary. The cop screwed up here, pure and simple.
    Last edited by thwhtGuardian; 04-22-2021 at 09:31 AM.

  4. #27889

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    Oh, come on, too late?

    This isn't some crazed, unstoppable zombie from a horror movie we're talking about, it's a 16 year old little girl. You're seriously trying to tell me you think she wouldn't stop what she's doing if she hears a gun go off at close range? And that pause would be more than enough time for the officer to then use a non-lethal take down.

    Absolutely no one needed to die here.
    Since when do you have to be a " crazed unstoppable zombie" from a horror movie" to be able to stab someone to death? She was lunging at the other kid with a knife, the cop had a clean shot and took it. Assuming a loud noise would have deescualted the situation at the very last possible moment is a hail mary. (my personal, nonprofessional opinion.)
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 04-22-2021 at 11:34 AM.

  5. #27890
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,539

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Get real, since when do you have to be a " crazed unstoppable zombie" from a horror movie" to be able to stab someone to death? She was lunging at the other kid with a knife, the cop had a clean shot and took it. Assuming a loud would have deescualted the situation at the very last possible moment is a hail mary.
    It's really not some pie in the sky idea fueled by optimism instead of reality...there wouldn't exist such a thing as a warning shot in our vernacular or in practice if it wasn't an effective deterrent.

  6. #27891
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,348

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainEurope View Post
    Here is a list of killings by law enforcement officers in Germany

    Lately it has been around half a dozen to one dozen cases a year. Looking into the details, I found this case from last year particularly tragic:
    Picture in UK similar to Germany: it tends to be around 3 to 4 per year. (2020 3, 2019 3, 2018 1).

    Most of our police are not authorised to use guns...about 1 in 20 have volunteered for the specialist training needed to use guns or rifles. (And fewer police still routinely use arms...that is reserved for things like guarding Ministry of Defence arms depots, specialist bodyguards, and so on.)

    But overall environment is different to US, of course...it is fairly unusual for criminals to use guns in UK. (Just under 10,000 offences in 2019, 33 fatalities.)
    Last edited by JackDaw; 04-22-2021 at 09:51 AM.

  7. #27892
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    5,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    The fact that one of the people who was there at the scene, and very well could have been harmed or killed by the girl with the knife seemed to think shooting her was the wrong calls puts the lie to that statement.

    On top of that, has a single person involved from the incident come forward to refute the guy who said, "you didn't need to shoot her" ? Has a single person involved expressed gratitude to the cop or said he made the right call?

    In case you were wondering, the answer to those questions is a resounding, "No." so let's stop pretending this is some tricky moral quandary. The cop screwed up here, pure and simple.
    An untrained person that “seemed to think” something is not reflective of the reality of the situation. Fact is she was a second or two away fron driving a knife into someone and he took the action that most guaranteed it would stop. You yourself gave less effective suggestions that you needed to extrapolate and assume they would work. You have no idea if a warning shot would have stopped anything and you weren’t the one gambling a life on it being effective. A warning shot traditionally is a ranged solution that is not designed to stop an imminent action in progress but to otherwise persuade further reckless action. You also said he should try to tackle the girl. She was swinging a knife at a girl she had up against a car and the officer was at a further range. He had a couple seconds to act. Do me a favor swing your arm then run 5 yards and see what takes longer.

    The fact is the gun is there precisely for that scenario. Lethal force meeting lethal force where a threat is imminent and all your other options are far less effective at quickly neutralizing a lethal threat. It’s standard protocol
    Last edited by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE; 04-22-2021 at 09:52 AM.

  8. #27893
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    12,556

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    An untrained person that “seemed to think” something is not reflective of the reality of the situation. Fact is she was a second or two away fron driving a knife into someone and he took the action that most guaranteed it would stop. You yourself gave less effective suggestions that you needed to extrapolate and assume they would work. You have no idea if a warning shot would have stopped anything and you weren’t the one gambling a life on it being effective. A warning shot traditionally is a ranged solution that is not designed to stop an imminent action in progress but to otherwise persuade further reckless action. You also said he should try to tackle the girl. She was swinging a knife at a girl she had up against a car and the officer was at a further range. He had a couple seconds to act. Do me a favor swing your arm then run 5 yards and see what takes longer.

    The fact is the gun is there precisely for that scenario. Lethal force meeting lethal force where a threat is imminent and all your other options are far less effective at quickly neutralizing a lethal threat. It’s standard protocol
    Agreed.

    I think this is a good shooting (for lack of better term) based on the tactical situation. It's just that all the bad, unjustified shootings have made cops automatically suspect.

  9. #27894
    Astonishing Member SquirrelMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    2,371

    Default

    Thanks to the judges Trump and the Senate GOP added to POTUS, more children will be sentenced to life in prison.

    Christian values.

  10. #27895
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    3,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    The reason it's so unrealistic to expect a cop to shoot to disarm or to stop the suspect from running is that they are taught to shoot to kill. Look at a police firing range. Where are the bullseyes? On the head and the heart. Maybe if cops were trained to disarm or disable suspects instead of using lethal force as a first resort, we might have fewer cases like these.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Agreed.

    I think this is a good shooting (for lack of better term) based on the tactical situation. It's just that all the bad, unjustified shootings have made cops automatically suspect.
    Yea. I don't understand the outrage here. If someone were coming at my kid with a knife I'd be grateful to the cop that shot the attacker.

  11. #27896
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,539

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    Yea. I don't understand the outrage here. If someone were coming at my kid with a knife I'd be grateful to the cop that shot the attacker.
    The people actually involved here don't share your sentiment, which should probably tell you something.

  12. #27897
    Astonishing Member SquirrelMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    2,371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    Yea. I don't understand the outrage here. If someone were coming at my kid with a knife I'd be grateful to the cop that shot the attacker.
    And how would you feel if your daughter was defending herself from intruders and got shot dead by a cop she herself had called?

  13. #27898
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    12,556

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SquirrelMan View Post
    And how would you feel if your daughter was defending herself from intruders and got shot dead by a cop she herself had called?
    I wish people would stop playing the 'How would you feel' card, because it's not especially relevant.

    There are plenty of bad cop shootings out there. Without a doubt.

    But what seems to have happened is that the cop rolled up just as one party was about to stab another. Without telepathy, I'm hard pressed to see how the cop is supposed to know who is the aggressor, who is defending themselves etc. A tragic situation all around.

    But just as George's Floyd's criminal past does not mean that it was okay for him to be slowly murdered, cops shooting a black suspect isn't automatically a bad faith act

  14. #27899
    Astonishing Member SquirrelMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    2,371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I wish people would stop playing the 'How would you feel' card, because it's not especially relevant.

    There are plenty of bad cop shootings out there. Without a doubt.

    But what seems to have happened is that the cop rolled up just as one party was about to stab another. Without telepathy, I'm hard pressed to see how the cop is supposed to know who is the aggressor, who is defending themselves etc. A tragic situation all around.

    But just as George's Floyd's criminal past does not mean that it was okay for him to be slowly murdered, cops shooting a black suspect isn't automatically a bad faith act
    I'm sorry but: You started the "if this was my kid" fanfic . I just added the facts of the case.

  15. #27900
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    New Richmond Ohio
    Posts
    12,246

    Default

    I think it was a justified shoot. Not a good shooting because a teenager is dead. I wish it would have turned out different, I wish the cop had done something else or could have done something else but to be honest there may not have been time for that. I was not there I dont know. I have never been a cop so I dont know what I would have done or the training they had. I can just go by other cops whi have said (Including several Afircan American cops and former cops) who said that the cop acted to save a life.

    As for how the people at the scene feel, they were not trained like the cop was, they like the rest of us can second guess things after the fact.

    I guess my question to all of the adults who said why couldnt the cop have stopped a 16 year old because it would have been easy, why didnt any of them try and step in? if it was so easy to stop the girl why didnt anyone else make the attempt? I have heard this asked and people say well a couple of people said they were scared for their safety. That is fair, so why is it not okay for the cop to be scared for the other girls safety and take action?

    We can all say the cop should have done this or that. but we are just talking after the fact in a situation that none of us most likely have never been in. So we can only (Including myself) can only say what we hope should have happened or what the guy could have done different.
    Last edited by babyblob; 04-22-2021 at 11:21 AM.
    This Post Contains No Artificial Intelligence. It Contains No Human Intelligence Either.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •