Storm >>> APPRECIATION <<<

[rutog98]

I would not say that she could not establish a bond with them, rather that she hit some resistance and was able to overcome that resistance with the strength of her will. Telekinetics, on the other hand, must grab an object with their psychokinetic powers in order to move them. Storm does not work that way. She does so through her willpower and strength of body. Hence, her powers are never described as working the same way as a TP/TK.

Here is a good example of what I am referring to:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/TIw0lDrksf9...gFE0rMQh=s1600

Notice how she feels a wrongess about them in the storm before she even tries to control it. In other words, she is still connected to it and her environment. When she reaches out to try and control it, it resists her. Again, she is still connected.

Later, she outright takes control over it, doubles its power, and turns it back upon Shaman, who created the blizzard to begin with.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/BBc4bPi9zg0...oF3hODa-=s1600

She is still connected to said forces, but gets resistance, so uses her strength of will and her enormous power levels to overcome the resistance. This is what happened in the Weather God scenarios he brought up.

[butterflykyss]

You are showing your lack of comprehension.

Jean accidentally read Ororo's mind, that she was about to say she wanted silverware. Jean has to concentrate to harness her telepathy like Ororo has to concentrate to control her powers(lest they rage out of control!). Jean and Ororo both have parallel arcs about their powers going beyond their control(Dark Phoenix and RogueStorm, respectively). They are two sides of the same coin, which is why Ororo is able to harness Emma's telepathy with concentration.

So first Yoga I respect you and as such i expect said respect back. You can make your point but please don't insult me or my ability to comprehend a comicbook in doing so.

That said, from your explanation and from the scan WG posted it seems the similarity begins and ends with concentration. Again, not once have I said their aren't similarities but outside of concentration being required to utilize their powers what in canon supports other areas in which they are? Again I've posed this question to you and Chaos several times and neither of you have adequately answered but if their powers are similar in the way you described in your analogy to toes why was Emma so overwhelmed with joy upon experiencing Ororo power for the first time? And why couldn't Emma control the elements to conquer the storm requiring Ororo to use her telepathy to wrestle control over them ? Emma is a powerful telepath and I'm not understanding how any of that would make sense if telepathy worked in the way you mentioned earlier as her experience with telepathy should have been enough to stop the raging storm.

I read these forums all the time, but I think most of what I'm thinking has pretty much been said at some point or another.

1. Storm's powers affecting the weather inside of Sue's field is certainly possible, as I don't feel her shields keep out all psionic frequencies, even airtight.The fact that she was able to block Jean's tk without making it soundproof is evidence that she doesn't need to make the shields extra dense to block certain frequencies. They either block them or they don't. I've seen telepaths and other psionics breach her shield as well. So it's a toss up. If they work passed the shield, she wouldn't need to drop gamma bomb level attacks in order to break her down. She could do any number of things such as manipulating the pressure in her inner ear to inceasing the temputure inside.

2. I think her powers ARE similar to telepathy(not telekinesis), but they are unique to the energy systems that she is bonded with. She also has other unique aspects that are very different from telepaths as well. She doesn't seem to be limited to not being able to control the forces when she cannot establish a natural bond with them. So I guess in a sense she can force her control over them in a similar fashion as a telekinetic, such as when she wrestled the krakoa storm into submission and forcefully used the elements on dracula's island after they resisted her for example.

1.) Yea from the scans I provided she does have the ability to block or allow certain light requencies but beyond that she doesn't. In the case of sound she was able to make her shield thicker to keep it from getting out or in but that is not something she directly is manipulating such as the light frequency.

2.)Cool and fair enough. I haven't had issue with some saying their are similarities but I still wholeheartedly disagree that the use and application of their powers work the same.

[rutog98]

Resonance(becoming attuned) is precisely how telepathy would have to work. How else can you see into someone's mind?

Again, the mind of a telepath works as a receptor that pick up stray thoughts around them. Hence, non-telepaths with the training to hold a tight reign on their thoughts are able to keep their thoughts from spilling out for telepaths to pick up on. If a telepath wants these thoughts, they are going to have to fight for them. It has nothing to do with attunement and everything to do with the mind of a telepath being receptors that pick up stray thought lest they put walls up in their minds to block out those stray thoughts.

That said, if a psi wanted to see into somebody's mind specifically, especially if that mind is offering resistance, they have to establish a MIND LINK with it and go that route. If they just let down their psychic walls, they will get the surface thoughts of everyone around them who is not trying to shield their thoughts from eavesdropping telepaths.

[rutog98]

And if you want some facts, try real science:

ESP AND THE ‘THEORY OF RESONANCE’

https://academic.oup.com/bjps/articl...dFrom=fulltext

Here is the problem with your strictly "real science" application to Ororo's powers: It doesn't work. There is a mystical-esque aspect to Ororo's power and her resonance with the life force around her that defies scientific description. Also, this link is not canon.

[yogaflame]

So first Yoga I respect you and as such i expect said respect back. You can make your point but please don't insult me or my ability to comprehend a comicbook in doing so. \

You clearly miscomprehended the panel in your previous response. I did not insult, but perhaps my observation of your mistake was tactless. Having you disagree with my point of view for the last two day has obviously made me a bit more adversarial then I would prefer. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings with my observation.

I have made many detailed post describing the SIMILARITIES of Storm's powers to other PSIONIC powers, making a COMPARISON to telepathy and telekinesis, while MAINTAINING that Storm's powers operate on a different frequency/different medium than other psions.

In direct response to your question, as I already wrote about in previous entries (but perhaps in too broad of strokes), Emma couldn't use Ororo's powers as well as Ororo could use Emma's because Ororo had half a life of experience interfacing with the atmospheric mind/the elements. So while Emma COULD use her powers, it was a bit hard for her because of the scale. Even Ororo herself struggles with her powers at times("oh, this storm was almost too big for me to handle, wow, how did I even make this?"), so this is not to be unexpected, just as a novice telepath can't do all the things an accomplished telepath can do, despite have the exact same mutation. Both skilled artists, just one's a sculptor(Ororo) who works at scale on Mt Rushmore sized pieces, the other is a cartoonist(Emma, who works in simple pictures and words). Visualizing the concept was no problem for Emma, but the execution at scale was beyond her skillset, whereas Ororo was able to get used to the different medium more easily because it is just simply smaller. Different mediums aside, THEY ARE STILL BOTH ARTISTS!!!!

[yogaflame]

Here is the problem with your strictly "real science" application to Ororo's powers: It doesn't work. There is a mystical-esque aspect to Ororo's power and her resonance with the life force around her that defies scientific description.

Ok, let's drop science and just stick to language and vocabulary:

Definition of resonant

1 : continuing to sound : echoing
2 a : capable of inducing resonance
b : relating to or exhibiting resonance

I have a thought, you echo the same thought. Resonance.

at·tune
əˈt(y)o͞on/Submit
verb
past tense: attuned; past participle: attuned
make receptive or aware.

Jean and Ororo's minds became attuned, and Jean was made aware of Ororo's childhood traumas.

[yogaflame]

Here is the problem with your strictly "real science" application to Ororo's powers: It doesn't work. There is a mystical-esque aspect to Ororo's power and her resonance with the life force around her that defies scientific description.

Storm's powers, like all mutant powers, are explained 100% in the comics by the x-gene. Suppressing or removing her x-gene expression will remove her powers. Granted, the x-gene itself comes from ancient space gods called the Celestials, and in some stories she used magic to replace or supplement her mutant powers as they waned with age, so there's your quasi-mystical angle if you need one.

[rutog98]

I want to see canon that states ANd shows Storm's unity with the universal life force around her and the way her powers work through that unity is exactly the same way a telepath's powers work. In other words, the telepath would have to be able to gain physical and spiritual sustenace just by being in the presence of other human minds without any exertion of their psychic powers. Also, without sending any psychic energy to that mind, they would have to be spiritually and physically connected to other people's minds and be able to command that mind simply by wishing it without the use of their TP powers. If they have to exert their TP powers to control the other person's mind, they would be controlling that other mind indirectly like a telekinetic moves objects around indirectly via their application of TK energy. The mind of another person is not an extension of a telepath like Storm's oneness with the universe around her and the forces she commands.

[rutog98]

Storm's powers, like all mutant powers, are explained 100% in the comics by the x-gene. Suppressing or removing her x-gene expression will remove her powers. Granted, the x-gene itself comes from ancient space gods called the Celestials, and in some stories she used magic to replace or supplement her mutant powers as they waned with age, so there's your quasi-mystical angle if you need one.

No, I am talking about the quasi-mystical angle regarding her resonance to the universal life force which has nothing to do with her mystical heritage and everything to do with her mutancy.

[rutog98]

Ok, let's drop science and just stick to language and vocabulary:

Definition of resonant

1 : continuing to sound : echoing
2 a : capable of inducing resonance
b : relating to or exhibiting resonance

I have a thought, you echo the same thought. Resonance.

at·tune
əˈt(y)o͞on/Submit
verb
past tense: attuned; past participle: attuned
make receptive or aware.

Jean and Ororo's minds became attuned, and Jean was made aware of Ororo's childhood traumas.

This is not the same context of how Ororo's powers work. Jean is not innately connected to Storm's mind like Storm is automatically connected to the elements and the universal life force around her. Jean is not connected to Ororo's mind like Storm's innate physical and spiritual bond to the world around her. Jean has to forge an artificial and temporary connection with Ororo's mind to get this information about her trauma and this connection is not as deep as Ororo's connection to the universe around her either.

[yogaflame]

The astral plane and Phoenix force are both examples of individual minds being seen as part of a greater whole that all telepaths(indeed all conscious sentient beings) are intrinsically connected to. Notice in the Onslaught stories how telepaths all over the world powers went wonky, even if they couldn't know exactly who or what Onslaught was or what he was doing. Notice also the Shadow King story from the 90's where Psylocke accidentally got tricked into a feedback loop utilizing the minds of the world. It is all connected.

[yogaflame]

No, I am talking about the quasi-mystical angle regarding her resonance to the universal life force which has nothing to do with her mystical heritage and everything to do with her mutancy.

Storm is not the only character to have such a connection. Empathic elemental Meggan from Excalibur also has an intrinsic connection to the lifeforce of the world and can subconsciously be influence and empowered through that innate connection. Geokinetic Rictor also has an inherent connection to the lifeforce of the world, so much so that when his powers were lost in M Day, he wanted to commit suicide(exactly how Ororo felt when Forge's gun stripped her of her powers at first).

Phoenix in the DPS also showed Mastermind a taste of universal connection, but his mind was not prepared for the scale. Compare to Storm becoming one with Eternity, unphased.

[stormphoenix]

What's the conversation now????

Too many pages to figure out how this started.

[RLAAMJR.]

Here is the problem with your strictly "real science" application to Ororo's powers: It doesn't work. There is a mystical-esque aspect to Ororo's power and her resonance with the life force around her that defies scientific description. Also, this link is not canon.

And Storm has bend and broke the laws of physics.

[rutog98]

The astral plane and Phoenix force are both examples of individual minds being seen as part of a greater whole that all telepaths(indeed all conscious sentient beings) are intrinsically connected to. Notice in the Onslaught stories how telepaths all over the world powers went wonky, even if they couldn't know exactly who or what Onslaught was or what he was doing. Notice also the Shadow King story from the 90's where Psylocke accidentally got tricked into a feedback loop utilizing the minds of the world. It is all connected.

You are right about telepaths having some sort of natural connection (or at least sensitivity) to the Astral Plane and being able to feel massive surges of energy being released on there, but its not the same as Ororo's powers. The most blatant example I can bring up is Ororo's ability to draw material and spiritual sustenance from the universal life force around her. Also, her powers are connected to this unity. The Astral Plane can be sealed from other telepaths. There was one story, for instance, where Maddie engaged Cable on the Astral Plane and sealed the doorway to the mental shut to other telepaths. Jean thought Cable was in trouble and didn't know what was going on. She began to break through Maddie's sealed door. Notice how all of the telepaths still had their powers in full force even if the Astral doorway was closed. Again, Storm's connection to the life force around her is much deeper than the kinds of connections telepaths have. They are different and not really equatable.