"Batman and Robin Eternal" #20 Hints at Huge Status Quo Change for Dick Grayson

[Kurtzberg]

Also, although I'm not surprised, I kind of wish they didn't remove everyone's memory of Dick's identity. I don't see why Nightwing couldn't be a public hero like Captain America.

Captain America being known as Steve Rogers works because the other characters around him like Iron Man or Hawkeye aren't trying to hide their identities either. The Avengers are all largely pretty public about who they are, Tony Stark doesn't care people know he's Iron Man these days.
Dick Grayson being an unmasked hero makes things problematic for Batman (the more valuable commodity), because suspension of disbelief becomes harder around the issue of Bruce keeping his secret identity secret the more you look at the fact the public know Dick is Nightwing. It's why DC sort of quickly moved on after Dick was unmasked in Forever Evil, don't look to closely at the details of this, it doesn't make sense if you pay attention.

[Rac7d*]

Why can't DC let Dick alone, he was doing so great with a new creative team and all. I bet whatever comes next will be absolutely mediocre like it has been with Nightwing and Teen Titans in the last idk 20 years? I can't even remember when it started. I'm tired of this.

Because money

[Lady Nightwing]

Did they really need to create a mindwipe satellite in Batman and Robin Eternal? After Nightwing 30 Dicks identity has been a non-issue. In Titans Hunt he walked into a diner in full Nightwing regalia and nobody commented on it ffs!

[The Kid]

Captain America being known as Steve Rogers works because the other characters around him like Iron Man or Hawkeye aren't trying to hide their identities either. The Avengers are all largely pretty public about who they are, Tony Stark doesn't care people know he's Iron Man these days.
Dick Grayson being an unmasked hero makes things problematic for Batman (the more valuable commodity), because suspension of disbelief becomes harder around the issue of Bruce keeping his secret identity secret the more you look at the fact the public know Dick is Nightwing. It's why DC sort of quickly moved on after Dick was unmasked in Forever Evil, don't look to closely at the details of this, it doesn't make sense if you pay attention.

That's true but that's one of those things that you kind of have to look the other way for. Like Lois not recognizing Superman, it's just a staple of the genre.

Overall though, Dick could easily be a public hero. Of all the characters in the Batman family, he's the one with the perfect temperament and personality to handle a situation where everyone knows he's Nightwing. He could help out in Gotham when needed, do globetrotting missions overseas, lead the Titans, fill in for the League, and be a public face that Batman, who lives in the shadows, could never be

[Peedi]

Because money

Pretty much the answer to most questions that tie back to business. Universal answer.

I prefer Nightwing.

This reminds me of how the world was mind wiped of Peter Parker being Spider-Man, although that method was a mix of Iron Man and Mr. Fantastic's tech combined with Dr. Strange's magic.

[taylortexas]

Booooo. I don't like it.

Now, if they put him back in the Nightwing costume (I'll take that in blue, please) but let him remain as DC's premiere spy character then I think that'll be an easier pill to swallow. But if it's back to basics, Dick's swinging around Gotham or Bludhaven again then... nah, that isn't a book I'm interesting in buying. Grayson is easily the best thing that's happened to the character since Grant Morrison put him in the cape and cowl. That book carved out a whole new identity for the character that was unique but not contradictory -- he's still Dick Grayson, just in a different set of spandex. It's been an absolute thrill watching Seeley and King flesh out that part of the DC universe and I would be very sad to see that taken away by Rebirth. If they want him to literally be Nightwing again then at least let him still travel the world and interact with Spyral/Checkmate/Wildstorm rather than just be an extension of Batman again.

And yeah, the deus ex machina "everyone will forget!" satellite did make me roll my eyes but that kind of thing isn't necessarily uncommon in comic books. I actually did think if he went back to Nightwing then they might try the public hero persona route with him. Why not? There's the argument that he'd make it obvious that Bruce = Batman but if people already know he's Nightwing then I'm not sure why they haven't been drawing those conclusions yet already. I think Dick Grayson as a public superhero could be an interesting concept; him having a sort of "Beatlemania" effect on the world and screaming teenage girls flocking to him and trying to take selfies. I'd read it!

[Doctor Bifrost]

I've asked this before in other threads and no on really answered it, but why do you want him to be Nightwing again?

This is not quite an answer to your question but: I consider the moment that Dick Grayson took on the Nightwing name as one of the great moments in DCU history. He said he did it to honor the two greatest heroes he knew, the ones to whom he owed the most: Batman and Superman. But to understand that, you have to know some of the history.

For many years, Batman and Superman - especially in the pages of World's Finest, where they teamed up (with Robin) every month - were essentially best friends. They knew each other's secret identities (when almost no one else did). They helped each other out of personal problems, sometimes disguising themselves as each other to deal with secret ID problems. Superman would visit the Batcave; Batman would go to the Fortress of Solitude. (This was at a time when guest-starring, team-ups, and crossing-overs were much more rare than they are today.) They were buddies.

And, with Robin, they formed a sort of family - spending time together, knowing each others' secrets. (Not a homosexual family so much as a homosocial one.) It was as if Robin was being raised by the two of them together.

Now, on top of that, there were a series of stories in which Superman and Jimmy Olsen visited the Bottle City of Kandor, a Kryptonian environment where Superman has no superpowers. Forced for plot reasons to disguise themselves, they take on the roles of Nightwing and Flamebird, very deliberately inspired by Batman and Robin. They even have a Nightcave, and get a dog assistant named called Nighthound. (Later, Kandorians Van-Zee - Superman's identical second cousin! - and Ak-Var take on the roles.)

So: Nightwing is essentially Superman when he's taking on the role of Batman. So when Dick Grayson said that, out of respect for the two of them, he would become Nightwing, I thought: wow. That's perfect!

So the identity always had a strong resonance to me.

Since then, there have been so many retcons and reboots that the history has been lost. Often, in the early stages of a reboot, Batman is shown to be suspicious of Superman (Thanks, Frank Miller!), so Robin doesn't really spend so much time with Superman. When the Dick-chooses-the-name-Nightwing moment is revisited, there is always a vestigial effort to connect the name to Krypton. But exactly who and what on Krypton was called Nightwing has changed frequently, and Dick's choice doesn't usually seem to make the same kind of sense it did originally - it's kind of shoehorned in as an homage or Easter egg more than anything else.

So: all that said, it doesn't mean what it used to. And at this point it would be fine with me if Dick Grayson - dealing with the fact that his old secrets are now widely known - decided to pick a new superhero name altogether. And maybe stop being Dick Grayson, too, and take on an alias. It would make sense.

But DC corporate has so much invested in the intellectual property of the names Dick Grayson and Nightwing that it's very unlikely that they would do anything like that, no matter how much sense it would make in a story. So mind-wiping/evidence-wiping superspy satellite it'll probably be.

But it's worth remembering that they did once have Dick Grayson give up the superhero name that had always been associated with him, and take on an entirely new one. It retrospect, it was a pretty bold thing for DC to do. And at the time: wow.

[HellHere]

Honestly thinking about it, I really hope that the sacrifice he makes in the next Grayson is the destruction of Somnus. The only thing he's really wanted is to go home...

It's the sadist in me, but I couldn't set something like that up without pulling it away.

[failo.legendkiller]

DC had 30 years to promote Nightwing and it never really took. Him going back to the identity is a step back and is going to fall into the same trappings as always. It isn't a strong identity or costume. Plus this just hammers home the idea that they never really had a plan in exposing his identity all along.

That Identity mess was done only for Johns' Forever Evil purpose. There wasn't any plan to manage that situation. I'm sure that Dick was supposed to be unmasked, humiliated and killed in FE, then something changed.

[WonderNight]

That Identity mess was done only for Johns' Forever Evil purpose. There wasn't any plan to manage that situation. I'm sure that Dick was supposed to be unmasked, humiliated and killed in FE, then something changed.

well if the last time dc had a plan for dick as nightwing was to kill him off, i don't think going back is a good idea!

[Nite-Wing]

There was never any fallout to Dick being outed unlike with Spider-man
take that as the difference between the levels the characters operate at where Marvel couldn't ignore something like that but DC can ignore with Dick.
I don't see any reason he can't keep being Nightwing while people know his identity.
Ultimately going back to Nightwing is probably gonna place him back in Gotham or Chicago or wherever.

DC kinda lucked out with Grayson and it became a very unique role for Dick in a DCU landscape that was pretty thin on one end and very crowded on the other end.

[WonderNight]

There was never any fallout to Dick being outed unlike with Spider-man
take that as the difference between the levels the characters operate at where Marvel couldn't ignore something like that but DC can ignore with Dick.
I don't see any reason he can't keep being Nightwing while people know his identity.
Ultimately going back to Nightwing is probably gonna place him back in Gotham or Chicago or wherever.

DC kinda lucked out with Grayson and it became a very unique role for Dick in a DCU landscape that was pretty thin on one end and very crowded on the other end.

yeah but can dick ever get to that level doing the samething that batman and the batfamily does?

[oasis1313]

And yeah, the deus ex machina "everyone will forget!" satellite did make me roll my eyes but that kind of thing isn't necessarily uncommon in comic books. I actually did think if he went back to Nightwing then they might try the public hero persona route with him. Why not? There's the argument that he'd make it obvious that Bruce = Batman but if people already know he's Nightwing then I'm not sure why they haven't been drawing those conclusions yet already. I think Dick Grayson as a public superhero could be an interesting concept; him having a sort of "Beatlemania" effect on the world and screaming teenage girls flocking to him and trying to take selfies. I'd read it![/QUOTE]

If DC is just having yet another reboot, why not just say Johns' "Forever Evil" their usual, "Oh, that didn't happen." Like Dick was "unadopted" in New DC, but Jason wasn't.

[Aahz]

If he stays with the titans it wouldn't be such a problem, iirc had quite a lot of them no secret identity. But with the Batfamily it doesn't really work. The only thing that logically could keep people from making the Bruce = Batman conclusion would be, if they don't know that he was Robin before he became Nightwing.

[byrd156]

This. Nightwing is a big historical beloved persona. And way more marketable. Dick was always gonna go back to Nightwing, no one should have doubted that.

(When there's a Nightwing movie someday, you'll definitely know how right the switch back was)

I wonder when that day will come.