Spider-Man: Life Story By Chip Zdarsky & Mark Bagley

[Vordan]

Great story, Zdarsky nailed the ending. If Cates isn’t the next one on ASM, Zdarsky absolutely should be, that or FF.

The book got more popular when Romita came because he and Stan took an already popular title and made every single character more attractive and likable.

That played a big part no doubt. Peter went from being drawn as surly and constantly scowling to being much more lighthearted, as did Gwen.

[Prof. Warren]

It had John Byrne, big name comics' writer. So on the name alone it didn't do enough as it should.

Byrne was not at the same level as he had been by the time Chapter One came along and his work on that title only proved it.

It was a botch job. Byrne was clearly on the down slide. His name alone couldn't cover that.

Being an insider has its own disadvantages in terms of knowing stuff. It means you are more guided by office rumors than facts, received wisdom than outside research and so on. As someone who cut his teeth on film history and film criticism, the ways in which inside gossip spreads and catches a life on its own is quite glaring. And everyone gets roped into it, even those who make an effort to be honest and conscientious.

Referring to facts and being able to successfully interpret those facts are two different things. I'll leave it at that.

Would Spider-Man have been more successful if they knew that what they were doing would be successful? If you say that someone wrote it without having an idea how successful it would be, you are implying that there's a way to create something successful and lasting knowing it will be that big. To me knowledge, there isn't.

I'm not saying Spider-Man would have been more successful had they known it would be more successful. How do even arrive at a thought that bent out of shape?

I'm saying that success in any creative endeavor is always a surprise. You never can predict what will click or how great the success will be.

Spider-Man's success certainly was beyond what Lee or Ditko or anyone else could have expected.

That success informed how they preceded with the character.

If Spider-Man and the rest of the Marvel line hadn't caught on the way they did, maybe they would have kept aging them until the books were cancelled.

But the success they met with led them to make adjustments and keep them in an evergreen state where change is largely illusory.

I also mentioned Superman and Batman created with comic book time from the start, but by all means, choose the example that allows you to dismiss and scapegoat me.

I also mentioned the passage of time in relation to DC but, honestly, if you're going to bring up a cartoon mouse and duck and compare them to evolving a human character, it needs to be pointed out how ridiculous that is.

I am sure that would be news to DC who had a pretty healthy time of it in that decade, as did many other lesser known titles at the time (Charlton, Warren, and others). Stan Lee wasn't sure that he would be in comics forever, but Kirby and Ditko whose vocation was entirely in comics weren't angling to leave the industry for certain. And both Kirby and Ditko were in favor of progression. It was Ditko, who had control of the plotting from ASM #25 onwards, that made the decision to have Peter go to college, and Kirby was so in favor of it that he wanted to end the Norse pantheon and replace it with the New Gods, and likewise had issues with DC when they didn't let him finish his story there.

Any history of comics will tell you that people in the industry always felt that the bottom could drop out off comics at any time.

People like Lee and Ditko and Kirby gave it their all as writers and artists but doomsaying about the industry's future has always been a thing in comics.

Why didn't Daredevil, where Romita Sr. had also worked on, in much the same style didn't take off then? He used the same slick,, mainstream style there too.

Gee, because Daredevil isn't Spider-Man. Do you really need such obvious things explained?

If Todd McFarlane came on Daredevil in the '90s, would it have sold as much as his Spider-Man did? No, of course not.

But you put an incredibly dynamic, appealing artist on a book that already has a following, watch it explode.

Stan Lee wrote every Marvel title for a time. Why didn't all of them sell the same? Because different characters have different levels of appeal.

Sales remained high after both of them left. Like when Mark Bagley took over, who isn't as much of a name creator (and let's face it, self-promoter) as those two. Bagley co-created Carnage and designed the Symbiote and that was after both McFarlane and Larsen left.

Yes, obviously Bagley is an artistic draw in and of himself and Michelinie was still in place as writer so why wouldn't sales continue to do well?

It's when the Spider-line unraveled due to the Clone Saga that sales faded. A bad story is just a bad story and if it goes on too long and loses its way, readers drop off.

[RD155]

Chip definitely stuck that landing. This is going down easily as one of my favorite Spider-Man stories and a downright instant classic. I really hope he gets the chance to work on ASM some day. That final page hit me hard. Hell the entire ending just completely tugs at the heart strings.

[Scott Taylor]

This one had me on the first page with the callback to AF#15. Great finish by Chip. Every word a note, every panel a harmony, every page a symphony.

Favorite moments all had to do with the symbiote. Writers often seem to ignore that the symbiote actually likes Peter, in spite of how they fight most of the time. Its a relationship with ups and downs.

This issue was pretty sentimental, which was a welcome way to end in light of the utter darkness that pervaded the last few issues. Even so, its a pretty bleak picture that is painted in the aftermath of the Civil War. Like many of the best Spider-Man stories, though, there is a big glimmer of hope as well.

Last things:

-Civil War absolutely should have ended that way. This is the main reason heroes tend to sort out their differences quickly!
-The first and last pages belie the way I think the MCU got Peter fundamentally wrong (even though I liked Homecoming and FFH)

Great story, Zdarsky nailed the ending. If Cates isn’t the next one on ASM, Zdarsky absolutely should be, that or FF.

I'd really love to see him on the FF. And its not even because of how he might write the Four, though I think he'd do fine. Its because he understands Dr. Doom

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I'm not saying Spider-Man would have been more successful had they known it would be more successful. How do even arrive at a thought that bent out of shape?

What's at stake, at least for me, is the argument that seeks to whitewash or erase any attempts at change or progression as being irrelevant to the equation. Reading testimonials from that time, it's pretty clear that Marvel's success owed greatly to its continuity, its sense of progression and development. Without those qualities, Marvel would not have become popular and successful when it started.

I'm saying that success in any creative endeavor is always a surprise. You never can predict what will click or how great the success will be.

Right, and you can't discount any part of the equation from the qualities that made and defined success. My argument is that there isn't a single defining reason for Spider-Man's success. Spider-Man didn't succeed just because he was a teenager. He didn't succeed just because he was in high school. He didn't succeed just because he was a "lovable loser" or any of that. It was a mix of all of that, and other stuff, including the forward momentum and serial storytelling and running subplots (such as the Green Goblin and Mary Jane subplots in the Lee-Ditko era) and the fact that Peter had a capacity to grow and change. I mean the Lee-Romita era did better than the Lee-Ditko era. That was a period where Peter had a mostly stable life, and even some amount of comfort. He went from living with his Aunt in Queens, to renting a loft in a Manhattan apartment with Harry Osborn, so he was going up in life in that period. That means that the more successful version of Peter isn't in fact the woebegone Peter (and even Ditko's Peter wasn't all that hard done by as people imagine) but someone who moves forward.

If you ask me the real reason for Spider-Man's success is Ditko's costume and his conception of Peter's powers and abilities. The wish-fulfillment of living in a big city and going web-swinging and the appeal of that outfit, which is both practical and also somehow cute, is the reason why Spider-Man works. Take a look at the PS4 game, most of the people who bought the game and play the game do it for the web-swinging. That's independent of the question of Peter aging and so on.

Any history of comics will tell you that people in the industry always felt that the bottom could drop out off comics at any time.

That doesn't explain why people back then openly and eagerly sought careers in such an industry and plied their trade rather than you know go into advertising, industrial design, and illustration. Ditko and Kirby both wanted to work in comic books and both worked in the industry at the time and they created their works expecting it to succeed and last. Ditko for instance went to the New York School of Visual Arts specifically to study under Jerry Robinson, co-creator of the Joker, seeking to work in comics. So that was something he chose for himself and wanted to do. The idea that they saw their work as throwaway stuff they didn't expect to stick is insupportable. That's true for Stan Lee because he wanted to be a novelist and had a mid-life crisis at working at Marvel but not for others. Every artist working on a comic does so hoping for success.

I mean look at Ditko's work on Strange. Strange was a character that Ditko had more of a say than on Spider-Man. Lee himself said that in the '60s and heck, Lee gave Strange Ditko's first name (Stephen John Ditko[=/=]Stephen Strange). Doctor Strange didn't have his own title in the '60s and he was always a cult success and yet Ditko poured everything into that. And even then Ditko didn't introduce much progression in Strange aside from him slowly developing from novice to Sorcerer Supreme.

But you put an incredibly dynamic, appealing artist on a book that already has a following, watch it explode.

Stan Lee wrote every Marvel title for a time. Why didn't all of them sell the same? Because different characters have different levels of appeal.

Yes, obviously Bagley is an artistic draw in and of himself and Michelinie was still in place as writer so why wouldn't sales continue to do well?

The other big part for the reason for that success, is the sense of progression and development that was built into the Spider-Man titles and which the marriage confirmed. Spider-Man growing and changing, and the forward momentum played a part in the success of that era.

[RD155]

The issue reads even better the second time through lol. I have to say props to Chip for respect he paid to the mythos through out this series. This was such a natural organic progression of a Super hero experiencing the real world aspect of aging. Like I said before, that last page just sends chills up my spine in a good way. Amazing subtle way to end the series. Also it was so fitting to have Bagley draw this series about Spider-Man aging. He was the first artist I ever saw draw the character and is by far my favorite ever. In some ways it just had to be Bagley for this series. His art might not be what it use to be but it’s still levels above the rest imo.

[Ursalink]

OK, I have read the issue, and I have A LOT to comment here:

+ "Civil War ended, both sides lost". "When heroes fight heroes, villains win". I couldn't agree more with Peter. This was truly the result of what it should have happened. Actually, it makes sense. I think it makes reference to both, Norman Osborn's "Dark Reign" and God Doom in "Secret Wars". Too bad they didn't show us Stark taking the beating he deserved. I wonder what happened with Parker Industries, however.

+ Too bad they didn't introduce us this version of Miles properly.

+ Glad to know Ben survived his encounter with Morlun, but how was that possible? And why does he use a cane now? My guess?, Morlun absorbed his "Spider's essence" but it didn't have time to kill his human part. So?, he's now a regular human. I still would like to know how Ben survived.

+ How is it Claire wears Ultimate Jessice Drew's original costume?

+ I expected quite a longer and more intense battle with Kravenom, honestly. And I have to say, old Peter'a way to finnish him off, was quite creepy.

+ I should be ashamed for not thinking about this, "Superior Spider-Man" happening with Miles instead of Peter. It has sense, actually. I mean, Peter is not as old as Otto himself, but years have started to take their toll too. So it has no sense to transfer your mind into a body that is close to your own old age.

+ Funny, old Peter proved not being easy to defeat mentally; but in the end, Aunt May proved to be the real superhero Parker with her greatest weapon: The power of love. (I love that song).

+ "I can't let you sacrifice a life that's not your own", very true.

+ Venom's symbiote willing to die alongside Peter, sacrifying as a hero. That's quite symbolic.

+ "Unless I also get bitten by a radioactive spider". Hint on this world's version of Spider-Island? And if MJ molds her skin just like spiders do (The Other), she could rejuvenate too.

+ I know we saw the explosion, but maybe Peter and Venom survived somehow. I know this is an alternative reality, so dead means dead; but even so, it also means crazier things that those we can imagine can happen too.

+ Never thought Otto would be willing to give Miles his life back and return to his moribund body. I don't blame Miles for wishing to unplug him and send Otto to Hell.

I have to say, this really CAN'T be the end of it. Now I'm really too consumed by the wish of knowing more details about this reality. Also, I want to know what happens AFTER this. I have some crazy ideas that could actually work:
+ "Spider-Island": We have the Queen using Miles Warren (who survived thanks to his cloning experiments) to infect New York and create a lot of new Spider-Characters. To do this, she finds Peter (who survived somehow and turns him into his "Spider-King"). Crisis avoided, many individuals keep their powers. Peter has a second chance through a "The Other" process, and MJ (who also gained powers) mold her skin as the Other too.
+ "Dead No More": Once back, Miles does his experiments on Ben to kill him and resurrect him several times, becoming the Jackal. He then brings back most of Spider-Man's friends and foes. Flash Thompson is between them, and he bonds with Venom to become Agent Venom.
+ "Spider-Verse": Morlun did appear, so an involvement with Spider-Verse is in other. I would like to see Parker Family meeting other versions of itself.

Well, what do you think?

[AngelJD]

OK, I have read the issue, and I have A LOT to comment here:

+ "Civil War ended, both sides lost". "When heroes fight heroes, villains win". I couldn't agree more with Peter. This was truly the result of what it should have happened. Actually, it makes sense. I think it makes reference to both, Norman Osborn's "Dark Reign" and God Doom in "Secret Wars". Too bad they didn't show us Stark taking the beating he deserved. I wonder what happened with Parker Industries, however.

+ Too bad they didn't introduce us this version of Miles properly.

+ Glad to know Ben survived his encounter with Morlun, but how was that possible? And why does he use a cane now? My guess?, Morlun absorbed his "Spider's essence" but it didn't have time to kill his human part. So?, he's now a regular human. I still would like to know how Ben survived.

+ How is it Claire wears Ultimate Jessice Drew's original costume?

+ I expected quite a longer and more intense battle with Kravenom, honestly. And I have to say, old Peter'a way to finnish him off, was quite creepy.

+ I should be ashamed for not thinking about this, "Superior Spider-Man" happening with Miles instead of Peter. It has sense, actually. I mean, Peter is not as old as Otto himself, but years have started to take their toll too. So it has no sense to transfer your mind into a body that is close to your own old age.

+ Funny, old Peter proved not being easy to defeat mentally; but in the end, Aunt May proved to be the real superhero Parker with her greatest weapon: The power of love. (I love that song).

+ "I can't let you sacrifice a life that's not your own", very true.

+ Venom's symbiote willing to die alongside Peter, sacrifying as a hero. That's quite symbolic.

+ "Unless I also get bitten by a radioactive spider". Hint on this world's version of Spider-Island? And if MJ molds her skin just like spiders do (The Other), she could rejuvenate too.

+ I know we saw the explosion, but maybe Peter and Venom survived somehow. I know this is an alternative reality, so dead means dead; but even so, it also means crazier things that those we can imagine can happen too.

+ Never thought Otto would be willing to give Miles his life back and return to his moribund body. I don't blame Miles for wishing to unplug him and send Otto to Hell.

I have to say, this really CAN'T be the end of it. Now I'm really too consumed by the wish of knowing more details about this reality. Also, I want to know what happens AFTER this. I have some crazy ideas that could actually work:
+ "Spider-Island": We have the Queen using Miles Warren (who survived thanks to his cloning experiments) to infect New York and create a lot of new Spider-Characters. To do this, she finds Peter (who survived somehow and turns him into his "Spider-King"). Crisis avoided, many individuals keep their powers. Peter has a second chance through a "The Other" process, and MJ (who also gained powers) mold her skin as the Other too.
+ "Dead No More": Once back, Miles does his experiments on Ben to kill him and resurrect him several times, becoming the Jackal. He then brings back most of Spider-Man's friends and foes. Flash Thompson is between them, and he bonds with Venom to become Agent Venom.
+ "Spider-Verse": Morlun did appear, so an involvement with Spider-Verse is in other. I would like to see Parker Family meeting other versions of itself.

Well, what do you think?

I like that Spider-Island idea and in turn outside of MJ also getting powers she becomes pregnant with a new child on the way (Annie thus with MJ having power and Peter a call back to the 2010's series Renew your Vows).

I found myself like the last issue much more then the past two issues. Happy to see Ben surviving his encounter. In the end there are a few questions i wished to be answered.

Curious to know and what happened to Helen whom I liked from issue two (before this issue I was expecting to see Miles in some form but was thinking if Helen and Ben got together before he died and she became pregnant that could of been a prime opportunity to have a Spider-Gwen version for Life Story with Helen and Ben named the child after Helen's her late 'sister' and she so happens to grow up looking just like her getting her looks from her mother and spider powers from her dad. Later revealed Miles and her trained together and starting a potential relationship (but Otto messing that up).

Also curious to what happened to Jessica Jones since last seeing her in the 90's and if she had a child with Luke. Plus reading Kamala's name amoung other characters mentioned by old Peter and being a fan of Ms. Marvel I'm also interested in her story. It feels like a Life Story Avengers and other characters could be used to cover some bases and expand things.

[AlexCampy89]

+ Glad to know Ben survived his encounter with Morlun, but how was that possible? And why does he use a cane now? My guess?, Morlun absorbed his "Spider's essence" but it didn't have time to kill his human part. So?, he's now a regular human. I still would like to know how Ben survived.

spoilers:

Ben Reilly died fighting Morlun. The Ben we later see with the cane is Benjamin, shortened Benji or Ben, the male twin born from Peter and MJ. Morlun feed on him, but Claire killed him while doing so, because, apparently, Morlun is vulnerable while feeding, something that I don't recall ever being part of the lore before (I may be wrong though) and I really cannot fathom to understand is how Benjamin realized that. Another weak point that many people are ignoring.

end of spoilers

[Lee]

Well, Peter did become an adult. He is an adult. Zdarsky wrote him as such in his SSM run. No one would say that Peter should have remained an eternal teenager.

But becoming an adult and continuing to age into an old man are two different things. I'm sure Zdarsky realizes that having Peter reach a general, loosely defined age in regular continuity and hover in that range is what makes sense in the long term. Peter couldn't believably stay a teen through over fifty plus years of continuity but he can be a twentysomething forever.

They're both very implausible. It doesn't make sense that all of these things, even in Peter's recent history (New Avengers, The Other, Civil War, Brand New Day, Secret Invasion, Big Time, Superior Spider-Man, Parker Industries etc.) could have taken place in such a short span of time. But that's okay, because they're drawings, and comics don't have to follow the rules of reality. If Peter had been kept a teenager, the audience would have accepted it the same way they do Archie Andrews or Tim Drake. Kamala Khan has been around for six years already, and I can't imagine Marvel aging her into her 20s any time soon.

[Ursalink]

spoilers:

Ben Reilly died fighting Morlun. The Ben we later see with the cane is Benjamin, shortened Benji or Ben, the male twin born from Peter and MJ. Morlun feed on him, but Claire killed him while doing so, because, apparently, Morlun is vulnerable while feeding, something that I don't recall ever being part of the lore before (I may be wrong though) and I really cannot fathom to understand is how Benjamin realized that. Another weak point that many people are ignoring.

end of spoilers

(*Facepalm*) Dude, I was talking about the male Spider-Twin from the beginning, not about Ben Reilly! In his last panel, it seemed Ben died at his sister's arms, and it looked like MJ was about to have a heart attack or something that would have killed her for the shock. So, what I wanted to know was how it's possible for Peter's son to be alive. (This is the problem about using the same name for several characters, confussion).

[Revolutionary_Jack]

OK, I have read the issue, and I have A LOT to comment here:

+ "Civil War ended, both sides lost". "When heroes fight heroes, villains win". I couldn't agree more with Peter. This was truly the result of what it should have happened. Actually, it makes sense. I think it makes reference to both, Norman Osborn's "Dark Reign" and God Doom in "Secret Wars". Too bad they didn't show us Stark taking the beating he deserved. I wonder what happened with Parker Industries, however.

Hickman's Time Runs Out shows a second Civil War between heroes. They spend so much time fighting the Illuminati for admittedly correct reasons since the Illuminati are trash that they can't do much against the final incursions, leaving Doctor Doom to do the dirty work as usual.

Someone said online that there might be a political allegory there. Peter's narration implies that people chose Doom to rule the world or a large number of them acquiesced. So maybe that's a metaphor for authoritarianism and populism sweeping the world.

+ I should be ashamed for not thinking about this, "Superior Spider-Man" happening with Miles instead of Peter. It has sense, actually. I mean, Peter is not as old as Otto himself, but years have started to take their toll too. So it has no sense to transfer your mind into a body that is close to your own old age.

Yeah, and making it Miles brings a new subtext to it. It's no longer Freaky Friday but GET OUT, and you can't forgive Otto and go "things are square with us" in that scenario. As it is that should not have happened in the original series since Otto is a fraud but is given a pass by Slott via tacky ASM#50 homage at the end, framing him as tragic.

+ "I can't let you sacrifice a life that's not your own", very true.

That's a great line.

I have to say, this really CAN'T be the end of it. Now I'm really too consumed by the wish of knowing more details about this reality. Also, I want to know what happens AFTER this.

Zdarsky has done a real-time Peter so well that you kind of believe in it as a long-sustainable status-quo. He wrote this with conviction and belief that a Peter who grows up is a worthy superhero story.

I personally would love an expanded version where we see a 72 issue series, one issue per year of Peter's life.

Anyway,

Peter Benjamin Parker
1948-2019
Beloved Husband and Father
Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man

R. I. P.

[AlexCampy89]

(*Facepalm*) Dude, I was talking about the male Spider-Twin from the beginning, not about Ben Reilly! In his last panel, it seemed Ben died at his sister's arms, and it looked like MJ was about to have a heart attack or something that would have killed her for the shock. So, what I wanted to know was how it's possible for Peter's son to be alive. (This is the problem about using the same name for several characters, confussion).

spoilers:

Claire killed Morlun BEFORE he could totally consume Benjamin. Benji was just maimed by Morlun, but survived. It was clear according to the nonsensical plan Benji devised.

end of spoilers

[xpyred]

spoilers:

Ben Reilly died fighting Morlun. The Ben we later see with the cane is Benjamin, shortened Benji or Ben, the male twin born from Peter and MJ. Morlun feed on him, but Claire killed him while doing so, because, apparently, Morlun is vulnerable while feeding, something that I don't recall ever being part of the lore before (I may be wrong though) and I really cannot fathom to understand is how Benjamin realized that. Another weak point that many people are ignoring.

end of spoilers

It's mentioned right there in issue 5. Claire managed to scratch Morlun while he was feeding. Not to be rude but how much more did it need to be spelled out?

Spider-Man - Life Story 05 (of 06)-023.jpg

Spider-Man - Life Story 05 (of 06)-024.jpg

[Russ840]

So would you guys say that the Lee/Ditko run could actually fit into Life Story’s universe.

I can’t think of anything that would conflict.

You can basically read the original 38 issue run and then life story and it should be seamless.