Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Glio]

Although Claremont is a very talented individual writer, his inability to team up with input from other writers towards the franchise severely limited him once the franchise grew.

[Zelena]

Although Claremont is a very talented individual writer, his inability to team up with input from other writers towards the franchise severely limited him once the franchise grew.

Could you imagine a talented writer, a one that is renowned, not having a total control on his work?

[Glio]

Could you imagine a talented writer, a one that is renowned, not having a total control on his work?

Yes, it's called working as a team in a franchise that is not yours. If you want absolute control of your franchise, you don't work for Marvel or DC. Cyclops, Jean, Xavier, Wolverine... they are not characters that he created. Why should he have absolute control over them? They are not his. I understand that he has tantrums when someone writes something that he does not like but seems childish.

And it's not even limited to how little he trusts other writers. He also did not trust a large part of his artists, hence his need to describe what happens.

It is not enough for him that the drawing shows something, he has to describe it in words because he does not trust that the artist can convey what he wants.

[Zelena]

Yes, it's called working as a team in a franchise that is not yours. If you want absolute control of your franchise, you don't work for Marvel or DC. Cyclops, Jean, Xavier, Wolverine... they are not characters that he created. Why should he have absolute control over them? They are not his. I understand that he has tantrums when someone writes something that he does not like but seems childish.

At those times, Claremont had a liberty no writer has today, Marvel let him do whatever he wanted. It enables his work to be more personal and to invest himself. I think it’s necessary to do something that has some value (even if it’s not sufficient).

And it's not even limited to how little he trusts other writers. He also did not trust a large part of his artists, hence his need to describe what happens.

It is not enough for him that the drawing shows something, he has to describe it in words because he does not trust that the artist can convey what he wants.

Well, about that, in the same time I read Claremont’s prose, I read Jean-Michel Charlier’s comics and his pages were even more loaded of text than Claremont. So it didn’t faze me.

[Glio]

Claremont used to have the freedom to do whatever he wanted, then he didn't have it and he got angry. There is not much else to talk about. They were never his characters.

[FFJamie94]

I like Claremont and appreciate how influential his work is, but I have to agree. If he felt that strongly about owning characters, he should do more independent stuff. I'd love to see what he comes up with via something like image.

And yeah, his narrations do sometimes get in the way of the art, which is sad as the artwork for his books are great. But just the amount of narration is overkill. Even Stan Lee knew when to keep it down. He literally had panels where he would talk about how he wanted to just keep silent and let the art do the talking. But with Claremont, there just isn't that room for brevity.

[Devaishwarya]

Yes, it's called working as a team in a franchise that is not yours. If you want absolute control of your franchise, you don't work for Marvel or DC. Cyclops, Jean, Xavier, Wolverine... they are not characters that he created. Why should he have absolute control over them? They are not his. I understand that he has tantrums when someone writes something that he does not like but seems childish.

And it's not even limited to how little he trusts other writers. He also did not trust a large part of his artists, hence his need to describe what happens.

It is not enough for him that the drawing shows something, he has to describe it in words because he does not trust that the artist can convey what he wants.

Exactatiously!!! Buh Lawdhamercy, Glio...yuh didn ha tuh drop it harsh on dem, so!

[Agent Z]

From X-Factor #260



x-factor 260.jpg



If this scene were written by Garth Ennis, Polaris would be considered a villain and it wouldn't be an inaccurate view. It's one of many ways in which Marvel shoots itself in the foot when it comes to making mutants look sympathetic.

[The tall man]

Yes, it's called working as a team in a franchise that is not yours. If you want absolute control of your franchise, you don't work for Marvel or DC. Cyclops, Jean, Xavier, Wolverine... they are not characters that he created. Why should he have absolute control over them? They are not his. I understand that he has tantrums when someone writes something that he does not like but seems childish.

And it's not even limited to how little he trusts other writers. He also did not trust a large part of his artists, hence his need to describe what happens.

It is not enough for him that the drawing shows something, he has to describe it in words because he does not trust that the artist can convey what he wants.

Isn't this basically the current situation with Hickman? For all intents and purposes he is running and directing the show for the entire x-line. Clearmont had one book to work with, Hickman has the entire franchise to do what he wants. And Clearmont certainly never upended the narrative the way Hickman has. Mutant Moira, resurrections, the X-men breaking bread with long standing enemies and of course the whole poly situation. The only difference is that Hickman won't stay as long as Clearmont did.

[Devaishwarya]

Isn't this basically the current situation with Hickman? For all intents and purposes he is running and directing the show for the entire x-line. Clearmont had one book to work with, Hickman has the entire franchise to do what he wants. And Clearmont certainly never upended the narrative the way Hickman has. Mutant Moira, resurrections, the X-men breaking bread with long standing enemies and of course the whole poly situation. The only difference is that Hickman won't stay as long as Clearmont did.

And thank the Goddess, for that.

UCO-time
I actually do prefer when writers now set a definite time frame in which to tell their story. Claremont went on for too long without adding anything new to the narrative or pushing it forward. As much as I didn't like Whedon or Fraction, and why loved Morrison then and HiX-Man now...at least they did something new and interesting.

[Glio]

Isn't this basically the current situation with Hickman? For all intents and purposes he is running and directing the show for the entire x-line. Clearmont had one book to work with, Hickman has the entire franchise to do what he wants. And Clearmont certainly never upended the narrative the way Hickman has. Mutant Moira, resurrections, the X-men breaking bread with long standing enemies and of course the whole poly situation. The only difference is that Hickman won't stay as long as Clearmont did.

It's good that Hickman isn't going to be around as many years as Claremont because he won't have time to degenerate like Claremont did.

When you have all the time in the world to tell your story in the end you never tell it. You have to have a finish line.

[Uncanny X-Man]

Although Claremont is a very talented individual writer, his inability to team up with input from other writers towards the franchise severely limited him once the franchise grew.

I always thought he worked very well when Louise Simonson was writing New Mutants and X-Factor, and working around Larry Hama's stories and various Wolverine minis and appearances, directly referencing them in the main book. He also produced amazing stories with Jim Lee as co-writer. And a couple of decades later, he referenced Grant Morrison's work a number of times in X-Treme X-Men.

What writers did he show inability to work with you're referring to exactly?

[The tall man]

It's good that Hickman isn't going to be around as many years as Claremont because he won't have time to degenerate like Claremont did.

When you have all the time in the world to tell your story in the end you never tell it. You have to have a finish line.

It's not really about how long one stays on a book to tell their story, it's more about how much control one has over the narrative, characters and direction of the franchise. Going by that then one can say currently Hickman has as much control over the franchise as Clearmont ever did if not more. Hell it even seems his influence is even creeping into the wider MU whereas Claremont was contained within the X-men proper, though there may be some pushback against that. In the short time since the DOX era has begun Hickman wields more power and control than Claremont could conceive of.

[SiegePerilous02]

Yes, it's called working as a team in a franchise that is not yours. If you want absolute control of your franchise, you don't work for Marvel or DC. Cyclops, Jean, Xavier, Wolverine... they are not characters that he created. Why should he have absolute control over them? They are not his. I understand that he has tantrums when someone writes something that he does not like but seems childish.

And it's not even limited to how little he trusts other writers. He also did not trust a large part of his artists, hence his need to describe what happens.

It is not enough for him that the drawing shows something, he has to describe it in words because he does not trust that the artist can convey what he wants.

To be fair to Claremont, Marvel was less rigid with the "status quo is God" stuff and allowed things to progress back in the day. And he was allowed to get used to a certain amount of creative control.

But I do agree that these aren't his characters, especially the ones he inherited. Scott in particular got screwed over by the dumb decisions that went into launching X-Factor...but the other writers making a shitshow of it doesn't change that Claremont wrote Scott out of the book in a VERY stupid manor to begin with that would make it difficult for other writers to use him. Who else would actually want to deal with Scott rushing into a marriage with a woman who looks just like his dead girlfriend and has a LOT of weird Phoenix-y stuff going on but apparently it's all a lame coincidence? Like they went with the dumbest possible method of ending that marriage, but it was lousy to begin with and the character is still sort of paying for it to this day.

[Fokken]

From X-Factor #260



x-factor 260.jpg



If this scene were written by Garth Ennis, Polaris would be considered a villain and it wouldn't be an inaccurate view. It's one of many ways in which Marvel shoots itself in the foot when it comes to making mutants look sympathetic.

That is the wacky thing about accountability. Individual vs. Community. Sweeping blanket statements disservice any group when judging by a single member's bad behavior.