Sorry I'm Late!: Barry Allen Appreciation

[Frontier]

I can't agree with that personally. Manapul's Barry was what got me into the character in the first place. I was very much into the Flash when I started reading his run, but my entire exposure at that point had been Wally. Even so, I immediately found Barry in Manapul's run endearing and relatable. I certainly don't think he was bland. I certainly wouldn't say Manapul's run is one of the greatest Flash runs ever and the portrayal of Barry is certainly not as layered and interesting as in Williamson's run, but it was a really solid entry point into the character of Barry Allen.

Agreed. Manapul's run was the first time I started collecting The Flash comic .

[Waterfall]

Most Superheroes are reactionary, and I think there was still solid character focus during said events.

I disagree, all the character focus was him quoting his dead mother over and over again, which is not a character focus.

The characterizations for each of The Rogues was pretty consistent and in-line with their general characterizations. I feel like the only thing Williamson's done is, rightfully so, bring back Captain Boomerang as a Rogue and re-establish the Rogues' classic looks for the most part.

They turned into anti-heroes and lost almost all of their threat because of that. Williamson even pointed out this at the beginning of Rogues Reloaded. There is a small line between being an anti-hero and a villain and they lost almost all of their villainy.

Oh, and bring back Captain Cold as a more visionary, big-time, villain.

You can't bring back something that was already there. Cap is a big time villain. They neuterized his character A LOT though.

You mean Captain Singh? Who Williamson is still using, more or less?

I liked their Frye well enough. A lot better then how Venditti and Jensen used him.

Ah, I like Forrest .

Yeah, Singh, geez. He's an annoying jerk with inconsistent characterization. I have no idea what Frye did in their run besides the whole Nora retcon out of nowhere. Poor Frye was a married man for Pete's sake.
And I have no idea who Forrest is. Once again it's a proof of how forgettable the cast was.

I thought Patty was used fine in the Manapul/Buccelato run. My only issue was when it felt like she was taking panel-time away from Iris.

She took a lot of scene from Iris, yes but she also didn't suit well to Barry because she was so wooden as a character. She had to ruin the moment every time Iris opened her mouth. She was supposed to be Betty against Iris West's Veronica and she was miserably fail at that.

I thought Waid captured that well in his time on the title, moreso the humor and charm during the Brave and the Bold mini.

I agree. I also had moments of cracking up during his moments with Iris in Life Story of The Flash book.

I can't agree with that personally. Manapul's Barry was what got me into the character in the first place. I was very much into the Flash when I started reading his run, but my entire exposure at that point had been Wally. Even so, I immediately found Barry in Manapul's run endearing and relatable. I certainly don't think he was bland. I certainly wouldn't say Manapul's run is one of the greatest Flash runs ever and the portrayal of Barry is certainly not as layered and interesting as in Williamson's run, but it was a really solid entry point into the character of Barry Allen.

That's the key though, it's entry point and whether it's a good entry is debatable at best.

Also every single fight in the run ended with Barry saying "I have no idea what i did but it worked" asspulls instead of going deep into Barry's sci-fi side. They completely ignored Barry being a scientist and used Speed Force as a lazy device.

[Frontier]

I disagree, all the character focus was him quoting his dead mother over and over again, which is not a character focus.

At least that's more positive then constantly being depressed by it.

But I still think there was more to that Barry then that.

They turned into anti-heroes and lost almost all of their threat because of that. Williamson even pointed out this at the beginning of Rogues Reloaded. There is a small line between being an anti-hero and a villain and they lost almost all of their villainy.

I think they definitely still had their typical threat level, particularly pre-Gorilla Warfare which was dedicated to Barry fighting all of them together (except for Cold).

They did end up becoming the unsung heroes in helping fight Grodd but I don't think they really became anti-heroes. That was more something Cold was developed into, particularly once Johns got his hand on him again.

You can't bring back something that was already there. Cap is a big time villain. They neuterized his character A LOT though.

I guess I meant more in his goals, because I gree Cold is a big-time villain.

I don't think he was neutered by Manapul/Buccelato either.

Yeah, Singh, geez. He's an annoying jerk with inconsistent characterization. I have no idea what Frye did in their run besides the whole Nora retcon out of nowhere. Poor Frye was a married man for Pete's sake.
And I have no idea who Forrest is. Once again it's a proof of how forgettable the cast was.

I kind of enjoy that about Singh though .

Frye was basically Barry's mentor, more or less.

I remember them at least .

She took a lot of scene from Iris, yes but she also didn't suit well to Barry because she was so wooden as a character. She had to ruin the moment every time Iris opened her mouth. She was supposed to be Betty against Iris West's Veronica and she was miserably fail at that.

I didn't find her wooden, but I did like her interaction with Barry, more or less.

But to each their own.

[Sam]

That's the key though, it's entry point and whether it's a good entry is debatable at best.

Also every single fight in the run ended with Barry saying "I have no idea what i did but it worked" asspulls instead of going deep into Barry's sci-fi side. They completely ignored Barry being a scientist and used Speed Force as a lazy device.

Being an entry point isn't a bad thing and it doesn't mean that the character is bland. If Barry was bland in Manapul's run, it wouldn't have worked as an entry point for me. And that's not debatable at best. It's not debatable that it worked as an good entry point for some people. People have just told you that it worked for them as good entry points. That's not debatable.

And no, Barry being a scientist was definitely used in the run. That drives the whole subplot with Doctor Elias. And the Speed Force was used differently than it had been for the first time since Waid, but it actually worked pretty well as they used it.

[KC]

I thought Waid captured that well in his time on the title, moreso the humor and charm during the Brave and the Bold mini.

And I disagree completely. Especially in regards to how Waid portrayed Barry in the Brave and the Bold mini. We have been over this already.

[Frontier]

And I disagree completely. Especially in regards to how Waid portrayed Barry in the Brave and the Bold mini. We have been over this already.

True. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree .

[Dred]

His wit, sense of humour and charm.

I was talking about his portrayals of Barry in general, you're trying to make it about this one specific story.

You're badmouthing Waid's portrayal of the character and what I'm talking about is the only book he ever made entirely focused on Barry as a character.

[KC]

You're badmouthing Waid's portrayal of the character and what I'm talking about is the only book he ever made entirely focused on Barry as a character.

His other portrayals of Barry still count as Waid portraying the character, even if they are not about Barry alone. That is what this was originally about, not that one story.

[HeroVladimir93]

Ok, I have to ask: does the Flash creative team secretly hate Barry and want Wally to be the main Flash again? If they love Wally so much, why not give him his own book instead of using Barry's book to prop him up? Flash War just reeks of deconstructing Barry just to make look Wally better by comparison. Sometimes, I entertain the feeling that the creative team wants to kill Barry and make Wally the main Flash but the DC and Warner leadership prevents them from doing so because Warner has a financial stake on the character, what with his TV show and an upcoming movie, so they can't kill him lest they risk alienating potential readers who might want to pick up the comic books after watching the Flash on TV and movies. Barry is the hero who kickstarted the Silver Age and saved the world during the Crisis. He deserves better.

[Sam]

Ok, I have to ask: does the Flash creative team secretly hate Barry and want Wally to be the main Flash again? If they love Wally so much, why not give him his own book instead of using Barry's book to prop him up? Flash War just reeks of deconstructing Barry just to make look Wally better by comparison. Sometimes, I entertain the feeling that the creative team wants to kill Barry and make Wally the main Flash but the DC and Warner leadership prevents them from doing so because Warner has a financial stake on the character, what with his TV show and an upcoming movie, so they can't kill him lest they risk alienating potential readers who might want to pick up the comic books after watching the Flash on TV and movies. Barry is the hero who kickstarted the Silver Age and saved the world during the Crisis. He deserves better.

So because one arc of fifty issue run focused on Wally rather than Barry, Williamson must hate Barry. That's not even close to sound logic. Williamson loves Barry (and speaks very passionately about him) and Barry has been the focus of his run. Barry has gotten plenty of focus in the last 50 issues and he certainly wasn't on the sidelines here. Williamson is fleshing out the supporting cast, just like how he's put the spotlight on Wallace and Iris at various points throughout the run.

[FlashEarthOne]

Ok, I have to ask: does the Flash creative team secretly hate Barry and want Wally to be the main Flash again? If they love Wally so much, why not give him his own book instead of using Barry's book to prop him up? Flash War just reeks of deconstructing Barry just to make look Wally better by comparison. Sometimes, I entertain the feeling that the creative team wants to kill Barry and make Wally the main Flash but the DC and Warner leadership prevents them from doing so because Warner has a financial stake on the character, what with his TV show and an upcoming movie, so they can't kill him lest they risk alienating potential readers who might want to pick up the comic books after watching the Flash on TV and movies. Barry is the hero who kickstarted the Silver Age and saved the world during the Crisis. He deserves better.

I have to agree. Williamson does seem like he would rather be writing Wally. He may not dislike Barry but he certainly is not moving the character forward. For every step forward he takes a step back in the next arc. Maybe now that Flash War is done he will start moving the character forward.

So because one arc of fifty issue run focused on Wally rather than Barry, Williamson must hate Barry. That's not even close to sound logic. Williamson loves Barry (and speaks very passionately about him) and Barry has been the focus of his run. Barry has gotten plenty of focus in the last 50 issues and he certainly wasn't on the sidelines here. Williamson is fleshing out the supporting cast, just like how he's put the spotlight on Wallace and Iris at various points throughout the run.

Flash #50 basically had Barry as an inspirational cheerleader and nothing more. He is 't JUST supposed to be an inspiration to other speedsters. That was all he was in this issue.

[Sam]

Flash #50 basically had Barry as an inspirational cheerleader and nothing more. He is 't JUST supposed to be an inspiration to other speedsters. That was all he was in this issue.

Barry filling that role in one issue (which I would argue is a very narrow and superficial analysis of his role in this issue) is very different from that being his role in the whole run. If you want to make the argument that Williamson doesn't like Barry (which would be lost from the start), you have to look at more that just a single issue of fifty issue run.

[Frontier]

[liwanag]

[Frontier]

Flash Ring is here .