Powers Of X #5: For The Children *spoilers*

[ermac]

I am a fan of Jean, I'd imagine I've read at least 99% of her appearances, but quality writing, good art + dialogue and a fresh and orginal story are much more important to me than a character i like being written as a perfect saint who shines the brightest. I don't even think Taylor's voice for her was good. It was boring and generic and didn't move or progress her character in any real meaningful ways.

I'm curious. What are your favorite Jean portrayals?

[JKtheMac]

OMG, I love that comparative imagery. It makes sense too because Emma is a little uncertain about the future course, but at the same time she doesn't want to say no because this could be a great thing for the mutant children she so deeply desires to protect.

Not sure she thinks it will be a great thing. I read it that she sees an uncertain future for the children and a responsibility to them in those circumstances.

[Kisinith]

Jean fans: Why didn't Jean Grey show any fight before she died just like everyone else showed fight?

Folks just glad to see the character put down:
Why don't you care about anything besides FEATZ?

You guys are silly.

The assumption "Folks just glad to see the character put down" is straight up insulting and not true.

The fact of the matter is I'm a Jean fan. Shes in my top 5 favorite X-Men (and actually above Frost who's 7 or 8 depending on the day).

I just don't agree with or buy the argument that she was jobbed when the issue itself flat out says otherwise. I also don't like agree with unsubstantiated supposition on what Hickman is doing and I see no evidence of favoritism yet. Whats more the anti-Emma overreaction from a very small number of posters was in poor taste and unnecessary. I like what Hickman is doing, the X-Men are engaging and interesting for the 1st time in years. I don't see a single character being actively crapped on to prop up someone else. The story isn't even close to being done... hell its only close to being done with the setup.

Jean wasn't a damsel in distress, she unquestionable had the worst job there, to sit around and watch (in and out of their heads) as her family and friends all die around her and relay that back to Krakoa. Rather than acknowledge the maturity and depth of her actions the detractors are the ones complaining about "Why didn't she have more FEATZ?"

[JKtheMac]

Jean wasn't a damsel in distress, she unquestionable had the worst job there, to sit around and watch (in and out of their heads) as her family and friends all die around her and relay that back to Krakoa. Rather than acknowledge the maturity and depth of her actions the detractors are the ones complaining about "Why didn't she have more FEATZ?"

Not only was her task hard, it was being shared because it was so challenging, and when she worried she couldn’t do it alone she was simply told to try harder. The task was characterised as extremely difficult and at the edge of her powers and yet she managed to do it. To turn that into ‘jobbed’ is to ignore facts, context and the later context regarding how Xavier performs back-ups.

In other words let’s just stop arguing about something that is so obvious and clear. Those that wish to argue against facts don’t really need disputing. The facts dispute them.

[spirit2011]

She fears death thanks to Teen Jeens memories. Her absolute nightmare was ending up like the older Jean. She doesn't want to sacrifice herself again

Jeen died twice, so this doesn't make any sense. she wasn't any afraid of dying

Not only was her task hard, it was being shared because it was so challenging, and when she worried she couldn’t do it alone she was simply told to try harder. The task was characterised as extremely difficult and at the edge of her powers and yet she managed to do it. To turn that into ‘jobbed’ is to ignore facts, context and the later context regarding how Xavier performs back-ups.

In other words let’s just stop arguing about something that is so obvious and clear. Those that wish to argue against facts don’t really need disputing. The facts dispute them.

She wasn't simply told, she was told in a very condescending way by KMonet. Really humiliating way

she was completly OOC in all that mission

[ExodusCloak]

No Xavier, Magneto or Moira on the council? Pretty weird not to have them on it considering they started all of this and there would be no mutant nation without them.

Theres still slots open for them. I was adding people to groups based on their names.

I was contemplating Autumn Rolfson

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

You mean like Mystique, who got Wile E. Coyote'd? Or Angel and Husk?

She wasn't there to fight, as has been outlined many times. She had a specific purpose on mission. You ignore that because you've decided it's not fair. That's not anybody else's problem.

Why are you mentioning characters that didn't get time to react at all, let alone in a weak manner?

[butterflykyss]

The assumption "Folks just glad to see the character put down" is straight up insulting and not true.

The fact of the matter is I'm a Jean fan. Shes in my top 5 favorite X-Men (and actually above Frost who's 7 or 8 depending on the day).

I just don't agree with or buy the argument that she was jobbed when the issue itself flat out says otherwise. I also don't like agree with unsubstantiated supposition on what Hickman is doing and I see no evidence of favoritism yet. Whats more the anti-Emma overreaction from a very small number of posters was in poor taste and unnecessary. I like what Hickman is doing, the X-Men are engaging and interesting for the 1st time in years. I don't see a single character being actively crapped on to prop up someone else. The story isn't even close to being done... hell its only close to being done with the setup.

Jean wasn't a damsel in distress, she unquestionable had the worst job there, to sit around and watch (in and out of their heads) as her family and friends all die around her and relay that back to Krakoa. Rather than acknowledge the maturity and depth of her actions the detractors are the ones complaining about "Why didn't she have more FEATZ?"

you my friend are stating nothing but the facts!!!

[spirit2011]

The assumption "Folks just glad to see the character put down" is straight up insulting and not true.

The fact of the matter is I'm a Jean fan. Shes in my top 5 favorite X-Men (and actually above Frost who's 7 or 8 depending on the day).

I just don't agree with or buy the argument that she was jobbed when the issue itself flat out says otherwise. I also don't like agree with unsubstantiated supposition on what Hickman is doing and I see no evidence of favoritism yet. Whats more the anti-Emma overreaction from a very small number of posters was in poor taste and unnecessary. I like what Hickman is doing, the X-Men are engaging and interesting for the 1st time in years. I don't see a single character being actively crapped on to prop up someone else. The story isn't even close to being done... hell its only close to being done with the setup.

Jean wasn't a damsel in distress, she unquestionable had the worst job there, to sit around and watch (in and out of their heads) as her family and friends all die around her and relay that back to Krakoa. Rather than acknowledge the maturity and depth of her actions the detractors are the ones complaining about "Why didn't she have more FEATZ?"

people keep saying it isn't about the feats.

Even because the book never established it as being a big feat

[powerpax]

Gee, it's almost as if I already posted original 60s Marvel Girl scans as well....it's almost as if a broad collection of characterization across many years, many eras, many writers is what is informing my opinion.

The same informs mine. I just don't feel the need to post old pages to defend it.

[powerpax]

Why are you mentioning characters that didn't get time to react at all, let alone in a weak manner?

Because you said 'everyone else showed fight' on the mission but Jean. This is demonstrably untrue. Archangel and Husk died before the team could even infiltrate Orchis. Mystique died just skulking around. Jean, meanwhile, completed her objectives. Either stand by your statements or move the goalposts so you can keep complaining, but pick one choice.

[The tall man]

Not only was her task hard, it was being shared because it was so challenging, and when she worried she couldn’t do it alone she was simply told to try harder. The task was characterised as extremely difficult and at the edge of her powers and yet she managed to do it. To turn that into ‘jobbed’ is to ignore facts, context and the later context regarding how Xavier performs back-ups.

In other words let’s just stop arguing about something that is so obvious and clear. Those that wish to argue against facts don’t really need disputing. The facts dispute them.

So Jean with Monet's help maintained a tp link from to space to Krakoa and that's all well and good but some seem to think that is some impressive display of tp ability. (Wouldn't you say erasing the existence of yourself or of all mutants in the world a more impressive display of tp ability) which Emma did by the way. Also like some have said it's not about feats, its about characterization. Jean is seen as almost scared, afraid and practically crying for Scott to come save her. Not even putting up a fight at the end when the Sentinels come for her. Meanwhile characterization for Emma consists of her walking into a secret prison like she owns it, insulting the staff and walking by out with Sabretooth. And then having Xavier and Magneto (who was trying to kill her recently) cowtowing to her to help them and practically giving in to her demands. That's the difference between the two and that's what Jean fans are reacting to. Emma comes off like a badass who gets whatever she wants and owns people, while Jean comes off as weak willed, unsure, almost like some rookie and not a veteran X-man. Looking at this objectively Emma clearly comes off in a better light. Wheather Hickman is doing this intentionally I cannot say, I would hope not.

[ExodusCloak]

So Jean with Monet's help maintained a tp link from to space to Krakoa and that's all well and good but some seem to think that is some impressive display of tp ability. (Wouldn't you say erasing the existence of yourself or of all mutants in the world a more impressive display of tp ability) which Emma did by the way. Also like some have said it's not about feats, its about characterization. Jean is seen as almost scared, afraid and practically crying for Scott to come save her. Not even putting up a fight at the end when the Sentinels come for her. Meanwhile characterization for Emma consists of her walking into a secret prison like she owns it, insulting the staff and walking by out with Sabretooth. And then having Xavier and Magneto (who was trying to kill her recently) cowtowing to her to help them and practically giving in to her demands. That's the difference between the two and that's what Jean fans are reacting to. Emma comes off like a badass who gets whatever she wants and owns people, while Jean comes off as weak willed, unsure, almost like some rookie and not a veteran X-man. Looking at this objectively Emma clearly comes off in a better light. Wheather Hickman is doing this intentionally I cannot say, I would hope not.

You just described Emma and Jean perfectly there. Thats how i see them both

[powerpax]

(Wouldn't you say erasing the existence of yourself or of all mutants in the world a more impressive display of tp ability) which Emma did by the way. Also like some have said it's not about feats, its about characterization.

...You say immediately after complaining about Emma's feats.

Jean is seen as almost scared, afraid and practically crying for Scott to come save her.

Yeah, this never happened.

Not even putting up a fight at the end when the Sentinels come for her.

The traumatized, wounded last survivor of a suicide mission who still got more flex than Warren, Paige and Raven.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Because you said 'everyone else showed fight' on the mission but Jean. This is demonstrably untrue. Archangel and Husk died before the team could even infiltrate Orchis. Mystique died just skulking around. Jean, meanwhile, completed her objectives. Either stand by your statements or move the goalposts so you can keep complaining, but pick one choice.

Oh. I thought the fact that I was taking about characters in position to react was obvious. For the record, just to clear any further confusion, I was also not talking about any characters that were not on the mission, nor anyone who is dead, nor anyone who is a DC character, etc. Lordy.

But why am I even engaging?