Empyre - X-men #1 - Alien Plants vs Mutant Zombies vs SPOILERS

[Steel Inquisitor]

Well they gotta be remorseful and willing to change their past behavior. I feel like thats the catch-22 of The Pretenders situation. She never stopped believing/seeing herself as a superhero hence her overall past decisions are seen as superheroics and not something she should regret

You're holding actual super-heroes to higher standards than super-villains who other super-villains look at as being too evil. Those are excuses, nothing more. Of course she did, but this narrative falls apart if those incidents were acknowledged but the hatred for Wanda being Wanda must be adhered to at all costs. Apocalypse saves the world once: he's a hero for life! Wanda saved the world every week: get the torch and pitchforks.

[butterflykyss]

what is freaking wrong with Wanda? did it never occur to her to do a test run with one dead mutant first???

[king of hybrids]

what is freaking wrong with Wanda? did it never occur to her to do a test run with one dead mutant first???

Setting aside the risk that Strange (or Loki. It was a confusing year) or Magik would sense it, the method she accumulated the power/components for the staff don’t strike me as a two go arrangement

[Glio]

or Genosha. The place is rubble and she would have been bringing them back to dirt and no functional society. If they were to go to Krakoa, you'd think that would be important information that Xavier would need to know to prepare for. Bringing anyone back with dark demonic magic just sounds like a recipe for disaster. They turned into zombies. I guess at least it wasnt something worse

In perspective, zombies is manageable. They could have become demon possessed and no one would have noticed until they were already in Krakoa.

[Veitha]

And I gave you several things about their characters which are very alike, which you ignored. As well as ignoring when I gave other examples that debunked tours. Yes? They're there because of a their similarities, Dr. Strange didn't pick Magik up because he needs a mutant quota.

He picked Magik because she was his student, and Aaron and company used both alongside Voodoo, Talisman and others because they're the magic users of the MU. It's as simple as that.

You hate Wanda so much you're using her name as an insult, which juts proves my point your hatred for Wanda isn't rational.

Only in your head canon.

Mmmm her screwing up and causing an apocalyptic scenario literally happened this week (again). How is that headcanon or not rational??? You're talking as if Wanda in Empyre solved M'Day and everything, but she didn't do anything useful. And I'm not using it as an insult, I'm just pointing out how she looked in this week's comic

[Steel Inquisitor]

He picked Magik because she was his student, and Aaron and company used both alongside Voodoo, Talisman and others because they're the magic users of the MU. It's as simple as that.

Now why would he choose Magik to be his student and why would Wanda be there? Surely there couldn't be a connection between the two.

Mmmm her screwing up and causing an apocalyptic scenario literally happened this week (again). How is that headcanon or not rational??? You're talking as if Wanda in Empyre solved M'Day and everything, but she didn't do anything useful. And I'm not using it as an insult, I'm just pointing out how she looked in this week's comic

We've been talking more about what she did this week, which I agree she shouldn't have done but that comment in made earlier in the thread must be ignored to establish a straw man. You don't know of Wanda, several comics where she's a big piece in which shows she isn't evil and remorseful just get replaced with head canon because acknowledging Wanda being something other than unforgivable cannot be acknowledged. Erasing how Magneto and Rictor defended Wanda because that would mean they didn't agree with your opinion on this subject. That was a blatant use of her name as an insult, don't gaslight me. Your exploiting this to hate on her, and nothing she would have done would have made you change your mind. Your mind was made up before you read House of M.

What gets me is that if she did do M-Day as an evil act and was a villain from the start she'd be getting celebrated right now by the very same people who hate her now. And if she was a man this would be overlooked completely, like with Quicksilver and Doom.

[Veitha]

Now why would he choose Magik to be his student and why would Wanda be there? Surely there couldn't be a connection between the two.



We've been talking more about what she did this week, which I agree she shouldn't have done but that comment in made earlier in the thread must be ignored to establish a straw man. You don't know of Wanda, several comics where she's a big piece in which shows she isn't evil and remorseful just get replaced with head canon because acknowledging Wanda being something other than unforgivable cannot be acknowledged. Erasing how Magneto and Rictor defended Wanda because that would mean they didn't agree with your opinion on this subject. That was a blatant use of her name as an insult, don't gaslight me. Your exploiting this to hate on her, and nothing she would have done would have made you change your mind. Your mind was made up before you read House of M.

What gets me is that if she did do M-Day as an evil act and was a villain from the start she'd be getting celebrated right now by the very same people who hate her now. And if she was a man this would be overlooked completely, like with Quicksilver and Doom.

Magik asked him to be his student because she was losing control of her powers and needed help. The magic users group shots are just that, group shots.

Magneto defended her because she was his daughter and Rictor because he got his powers back, since he was an actual mess after losing them and so he was happy he finally got them back (still pretty ooc for Rictor to be that grateful, if I have to be honest).

Again, it's not head canon. This week, Uncanny Avengers and All New X-Men have happened.


I mean, let's agree to disagree, okay? Our back and forth has become tiresome.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Magik asked him to be his students because she was losing control of her powers and needed help.

You're getting closer. Why are they students of Dr. Strange? What do they have in common with losing control of their powers?

Magneto defended her because she was his daughter and Rictor because he got his powers back, since he was an actual mess after losing them and so he was happy he finally got them back (still pretty ooc for Rictor to be that grateful, if I have to be honest).

Great, what happened in Children's Crusade is being acknowledged now as a canon. Them doing this is wrong? Why? You're making it as if Wand giving Roctor his powers back was bad. What was Wanda doing before Magneto intervened?

Again, it's not head canon. This week, Uncanny Avengers and All New X-Men have happened.

Stop moving the goal posts, nobody is saying this weeks' comics didn't happen and stop gaslighting me on my actual opinion on what she did. They are, however, saying she wasn't remorseful in other comics like Children's Crusade and Uncanny Avengers. Read the comics as they are, don't daydream about what you want therm to be because you dislike a character.

I mean, let's agree to disagree, okay? Our back and forth has become tiresome.

It's only tiresome because I actually know how to argue. If I were losing this argument you'd be raring too go for another round.

[CoCoBandz]

what is freaking wrong with Wanda? did it never occur to her to do a test run with one dead mutant first???

It's Wanda.

She doesn't think she just screws up.

[Veitha]

It's only tiresome because I actually know how to argue. If I were losing this argument you'd be raring too go for another round.

We've been having this conversation for like a year, that's why it's tiresome.

But okay, it's time to chill, XoS is near, comics are good and out again, sorry if I did too much while talking about Wanda and M'Day and the Crucible and such .

[king of hybrids]

One thought is that the power Wanda bargained for could only really match the power of the Life Force (in 616, let’s not go into the multiversal stuff again), so she had the power to raise a million mutants but spread it too thin into 16 million zombies

[Veitha]

One thought is that the power Wanda bargained for could only really match the power of the Life Force (in 616, let’s not go into the multiversal stuff again), so she had the power to raise a million mutants but spread it too thin into 16 million zombies

Interesting theory. Also, Necrosha stated that Selene's method with magic and tech didn't repower dead mutants, since Wanda spell also acted on them. So it must have been a pretty powerful source if this restored everybody's X-Gene.

[ExodusCloak]

To be fair, Wanda wasn’t helped by Strange when she lost control of her powers, and she wasn’t in the right state of mind then.

She didn't want Stranges help. She went to Doom with the idea to harness the life force because she knew Strange wouldn't approve.

She was grieving but that doesn't mean she was in a state of psychosis before approached Doom. She had the ability to rationalise and think up a plan to get the life force and was aware enough to know Strange wouldn't help her because she knew she was meddling with something she shouldn't have.

[ExodusCloak]

Except when she tried to surrender to the X-men for what she did in Children's Crusade and all the time's she's shown remorse over it, and how much they common in their pasts, themes, being witches and hounded by demonic dark lords who want them in their possession. But this isn't about that, its about liking Magik and hating Wanda when you really never give Wanda a chance despite the fact the books like in House of M and Avengers: Disassembled showed it was a Dark Phoenix situation. The only unforgivable crime she committed was not being an X-man, if she had been nobody her would care. They'd welcome her to krakoa with open arms.

Which times? I can only count two in CC when she remember and now. That has been the biggest problem with Wanda the lack of remorse.

10char

[numberthirty]

Which times? I can only count two in CC when she remember and now. That has been the biggest problem with Wanda the lack of remorse.

10char

Completely serious here...

If folks want to discuss why Wanda should be getting a shake that is more fair?

Let's do so.

That said, such a discussion is really going to need a set of detailed breakdowns of these supposedly "Many..." instances of Wanda being remorseful.