All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[Mister Mets]

If you want to believe that the Obama situation is worse, you're free to do so.

But no one should propound the idea that the incident was unique, even in recent history.

Here's another: was calling Obama a liar in his presence worse than Republicans circulating rumors about Bill Clinton being a swindler and a murderer?

I tend to think the latter was worse, even if the slurs weren't directed at Clinton in person.

It wasn't just about calling Obama a liar in his presence, but doing so at the state of the union. That was an unusual thing for a Congressman to do, though there isn't much indication President White Liberal would've been treated much differently. I think it's an indication of societal trends (political polarization, acceptance of crass behavior) although it also represents a lapse by one of 535 members of Congress over eight years ago.

[TheInvisibleMan]

the whole of the Dem Party should skip the State Of The Union

send a bag of poop by FedEx

[kidfresh512]

the whole of the Dem Party should skip the State Of The Union

send a bag of poop by FedEx

They need to invite Dreamers to come sit and let Trump tell them to their faces their future will be held hostage for his vanity wall that he swore Mexico would pay for.

[Gray Lensman]

They need to invite Dreamers to come sit and let Trump tell them to their faces their future will be held hostage for his vanity wall that he swore Mexico would pay for.

That many non-citizens assembled in one place? ICE would show up for sure and say to hell with optics.

[worstblogever]

the whole of the Dem Party should skip the State Of The Union

send a bag of poop by FedEx

I would mark the f*** out if John Lewis staged a silent civil protest in the middle of it.

[aja_christopher]

It wasn't just about calling Obama a liar in his presence, but doing so at the state of the union. That was an unusual thing for a Congressman to do, though there isn't much indication President White Liberal would've been treated much differently.

Based on what evidence?

Can you name numerous examples where this has happened to "white liberal" Presidents prior to back up that assertion?

For someone who claims to believe in using "facts" to support your analyses, you seem to cite your opinion as fact a little too frequently, especially when there is often evidence to the contrary.

-----
"When Bill Clinton outlined his health care plan in 1993, for example, some Republicans snickered, shook their heads, made faces, and even shouted "no." And when George W. Bush claimed in his 2005 State of the Union that Social Security will be "exhausted and bankrupt by 2042," Democrats responded with boos.

But last night may be the first time a congressman went beyond communal muttering -- and interrupted the president with a loud and denigrating retort."

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...t_heckler.html

[heretic]

I just want to underline this... the GOP is spending money on running an attack ad... against a journalist. Who was given access by them, and then reported what he saw.

State of your party, guys. You're pretty f***ed up right now.

You forget. By being insufficiently flattering to Our Great Leader, this must be considered Fake News.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

the whole of the Dem Party should skip the State Of The Union

send a bag of poop by FedEx

I'd attend , and once Trump starts his horse shit as we know he will....everyone should stand up and walk out. If they catch hell from Fox and the Republicans , they can simply say ...we want a fucking leader. Not a clown show your supporting.

[JCAll]

I'd attend , and once Trump starts his horse shit as we know he will....everyone should stand up and walk out. If they catch hell from Fox and the Republicans , they can simply say ...we want a fucking leader. Not a clown show your supporting.

Hey, it worked for Mike Pence.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I'd attend , and once Trump starts his horse shit as we know he will....everyone should stand up and walk out. If they catch hell from Fox and the Republicans , they can simply say ...we want a fucking leader. Not a clown show your supporting.

That’s EXACTLY what Dems should do, make a real show of it. Republicans already set the precedent with Wilson’s stunt, might as well take things to the extreme.

[TheInvisibleMan]

They need to invite Dreamers to come sit and let Trump tell them to their faces their future will be held hostage for his vanity wall that he swore Mexico would pay for.

and he'll do it because he's that callous

s**t, he does that and that'll get him re-elected

[Mister Mets]

Based on what evidence?

Can you name numerous examples where this has happened to "white liberal" Presidents prior to back up that assertion?

For someone who claims to believe in using "facts" to support your analyses, you seem to cite your opinion as fact a little too frequently, especially when there is often evidence to the contrary.

-----
"When Bill Clinton outlined his health care plan in 1993, for example, some Republicans snickered, shook their heads, made faces, and even shouted "no." And when George W. Bush claimed in his 2005 State of the Union that Social Security will be "exhausted and bankrupt by 2042," Democrats responded with boos.

But last night may be the first time a congressman went beyond communal muttering -- and interrupted the president with a loud and denigrating retort."

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...t_heckler.html

You did leave out the next part of my comment. "I think it's an indication of societal trends (political polarization, acceptance of crass behavior) although it also represents a lapse by one of 535 members of Congress over eight years ago." Comparisons to earlier Presidents will be inexact because things changed kind of rapidly. Obama was also the most liberal President of the previous 49 years, which muddies the discussion (Clinton and Carter both ran and won as southern Governors.)

There had been nastiness in the past. Numerous pieces about the Kennedy assassination mention Dallas' atmosphere of hate (though Kennedy was killed by a marxist.)

Some nastiness in previous administrations included the defeat of John Tower's nomination for Secretary of Defense, partly due to never confirmed claims of alcohol abuse, and Newt Gingrich's behavior as congressional leader (there's a bit of a connection between the two; Tower's defeat led to Cheney becoming Secretary of Defense, which led to Gingrich becoming the House Minority Whip.)

More than anyone else in the modern history of Congress, it’s Gingrich who observers credit for bringing the hyperpartisan, obstructionist approach to Washington that we associate with the capital to this day. “When in doubt, Democrats lie," he said in 1988. He trafficked in sticky political nicknames: the “loony Left” and “daffy Dukakis.” In 1996, he actually sent out a memo to Republican candidates to help them learn to “speak like Newt.”

It wasn’t just rhetorical: Newt’s rise to the speakership in 1994 came after years of infighting, trying to swing the party hard to the right along with other young radicals like Trent Lott and Dick Armey. “These young members who were in the minority, in the House, were very frustrated by an inability to translate radical ideas into policy,” says Franc, of the Hoover Institute. “They were impatient.”

From the back bench, he and his radical brethren went after the congressional establishment, including fellow Republicans for not being conservative enough. He called Senate Majority leader Bob Dole, a veteran and a storied Republican, “a tax collector for the welfare state.” In 1978, he told Georgia Republicans, “I think that one of the great problems we have in the Republican Party is that we don't encourage you to be nasty.”

If he had knives out for his own party, he had a grenade ready for the Democrats. While there had been a few government shutdowns during the 1970s and '80s, they were minor burps, and sometimes, government agencies simply continued to function without funding, knowing it was just a temporary wrinkle. The Gingrich shutdowns, say experts, were nuclear. There were two of them. The first, in November 1995, shut down the federal government for five days. The second was more extreme. In December 1995, 800,000 federal workers were furloughed for three weeks—because President Clinton didn’t accede to all of Gingrich’s demands during budget negotiations, and neither blinked.

Gingrich basically pushed to be Co-President.

“He really believed when he was a junior in high school that he was destined to save western civilization," a school friend told the Post in 1985. During the beginning of his congressional career, Gingrich unself-consciously referred to himself as a “revolutionary.”

“He had a stunning level of arrogance,” says Gene Sperling, who ran the National Economic Council for Presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. He also had to deal with Gingrich in various budget negotiations throughout the 1990s. “He would kind of tell Clinton that—he’d have some example of a speaker and president who worked together”—it was, according to one of Gingrich’s former staffers, Republican President Ronald Reagan and Speaker of the House Tip O’Neill, a Democrat—“and imply that if you make me a sort of co-president, I’ll work with you. If not, I’ll take you down.” After he was elected speaker, Gingrich publicly asked Clinton whether the presidency was still relevant.

The profile includes one bit of douchiness that's just worth sharing, even if it is connected to Presidents.

When he finally won his congressional seat in Georgia, in 1978, he beat a woman named Virginia Shapard. Her plan, should she win, was to commute between Georgia and Washington and to leave her children at home with a nanny. Gingrich seized on this and ran an ad accusing her of abandoning her family. Under a photo of his own family, he wrote “When elected, Newt will keep his family together.” Two years later, he and Jackie were divorced.

[aja_christopher]

You did leave out the next part of my comment. "I think it's an indication of societal trends (political polarization, acceptance of crass behavior) although it also represents a lapse by one of 535 members of Congress over eight years ago." Comparisons to earlier Presidents will be inexact because things changed kind of rapidly. Obama was also the most liberal President of the previous 49 years, which muddies the discussion (Clinton and Carter both ran and won as southern Governors.)

So, basically you have no factual evidence of this ever happening before at a State of the Union Address, and are basing your earlier conclusion on your own (biased) assumptions.

Thanks for clearing that up.

By the way, I already know all about Newt Gingrich -- who is yet another reason not to vote Republican -- and I don't need a history lesson on him. I just wanted an example of a "white liberal" President being interrupted at the State of the Union Address to back up your assertion that there was no "indication" it couldn't happen to one of them as well.

[numberthirty]

Since destruction of ballots came up during some recent races...

http://floridapolitics.com/archives/...lots-2016-race

Tim Canova wants a state and federal investigation into why Broward County SOE destroyed ballots in 2016 race

South Florida law professor and 2016 Democratic congressional candidate Tim Canova is calling for a congressional investigation into why Broward County Supervisor of Elections Brenda Snipes destroyed all of the ballots in his 2016 primary race against Debbie Wasserman Schultz in Florida’s 23rd Congressional District.

The revelation that Snipes’ office had destroyed all of the ballots came about only after both Canova and independent reporter Lulu Friesdat made several different public records requests over the past year for access to the paper ballots used in the August 2016 primary. Canova, a law professor at Florida International University, then iled a lawsuit against the Broward County elections head under Florida’s public records law this June after he grew weary of waiting for her to respond to his request to inspect the ballots in his August 2016 primary. The lawsuit revealed that Snipes ordered the destruction of all the ballots in October, several months after he made his initial request. According to election law, Snipes was required under federal law to maintain the ballots for 22 months, and voting experts quoted in a POLITICO Florida published on Friday maintain that there’s no question that Snipes’ office has broken the law.

[Malvolio]

That’s EXACTLY what Dems should do, make a real show of it. Republicans already set the precedent with Wilson’s stunt, might as well take things to the extreme.

They should do as Klingons do to show disrespect: stand up, fold their arms and turn around. Do not show Trump your face for the entire speech.