Dick Grayson: Robin / Nightwing Appreciation 2020

[Avi]

I think the A-List talk seems more serious because of the logo change. It's a small but powerful detail.

I'd have thought that "it's not about Bludhaven" would have piqued your interest! I'd glad he's not trying to pitch the city as an integral part of Dick's psyche or anything.

Also, by way of overthinking, interesting that he doesn't mention "Grayson" at all. Seeley gets a namecheck as an inspiration for the Rebirth run, but King doesn't, and his "Dick outside the influence of Batman" examples are leading the Justice League and the Titans, with nothing about Spyral.

The writers he mentioned were a response to how Babs' and Dick's relationship will be portrayed and how he was influenced. King never really spoke about their relationship, so I'd guess that's why he has been left out while Simone has been mentioned. She isn't really a Nightwing writer. Of course, you are still onto something. I hope Spyral will enter the picture again or at least the Grayson characters but it sadly seems like wishful thinking at this point.

Speaking about Spyral: Back when Event Leviathan was happening I heard Dick was supposed to be in it before the whole Ric thing struck, is there any truth to that and if so, do you think Dick might appear in some form if Spyral is back for that Checkmate/Leviathan 2 thing Bendis is planning?

[Badou]

I don't expect Dick to get involved in anything Leviathan related since he wasn't involved in the first series. I imagine Bendis is just going to focus on the characters he has already used for it rather than introduce Dick and then have him play any kind of role in it. That's why guess at least.

Also going off this new Taylor interview I guess Dick and Babs aren't dating if he is going to ignore all the Death Metal Special issue? I really hope he doesn't do more of the "will they/won't they" crap that killed my interest in their relationship. That has me a bit worried.

[Godlike13]

The writers he mentioned were a response to how Babs' and Dick's relationship will be portrayed and how he was influenced. King never really spoke about their relationship, so I'd guess that's why he has been left out while Simone has been mentioned. She isn't really a Nightwing writer. Of course, you are still onto something. I hope Spyral will enter the picture again or at least the Grayson characters but it sadly seems like wishful thinking at this point.

Speaking about Spyral: Back when Event Leviathan was happening I heard Dick was supposed to be in it before the whole Ric thing struck, is there any truth to that and if so, do you think Dick might appear in some form if Spyral is back for that Checkmate/Leviathan 2 thing Bendis is planning?

King spoke about their relationship. Dudes a romantic, remember how he had Dick calling Babs his home. I think he preferred Dick and and Babs more so then Seeley, who i think was frustrated by Dick and Babs.

And yes Dick was suppose to at least make small appearance but was ultimately swapped out with Huntress because of Ric. Not sure if it was going to be anything more then that scene though.

[Frontier]

Also going off this new Taylor interview I guess Dick and Babs aren't dating if he is going to ignore all the Death Metal Special issue? I really hope he doesn't do more of the "will they/won't they" crap that killed my interest in their relationship. That has me a bit worried.

I mean, the clarification was that they're not treating the "marriage" as canon, which makes sense, but they might still be dating.

It's never quite been clear exactly what the relationship status is between the two beyond being crime-fighting partners but the influences he cited makes me think they'll be each others focal relationship in the run.

[Badou]

I mean, the clarification was that they're not treating the "marriage" as canon, which makes sense, but they might still be dating.

It's never quite been clear exactly what the relationship status is between the two beyond being crime-fighting partners but the influences he cited makes me think they'll be each others focal relationship in the run.

After 9 years of will they/won't they I don't know if leaving it vague will work anymore though. How the two have been revolving around each other since the reboot has been really bad on both of them.

[Frontier]

After 9 years of will they/won't they I don't know if leaving it vague will work anymore though. How the two have been revolving around each other since the reboot has been really bad on both of them.

Well, we don't know how vague it will be in the actual book. Maybe if someone actually asked Taylor he'd clarify it directly (or maybe he'd still be evasive? I dunno).

I just have a hard time seeing them as partners together in a book and not knocking boots at some point and he cited writers who leaned into the romance aspect of the characters at one point or another. I would think having them in a book together and not needing to worry about Babs having a solo would be more conducive towards successfully pairing them together.

[Godlike13]

I’m guessing she’s his campaign manager.

[Frontier]

I’m guessing she’s his campaign manager.

I'm hoping that means Babs in skirts .

[Badou]

Well, we don't know how vague it will be in the actual book. Maybe if someone actually asked Taylor he'd clarify it directly (or maybe he'd still be evasive? I dunno).

I just have a hard time seeing them as partners together in a book and not knocking boots at some point and he cited writers who leaned into the romance aspect of the characters at one point or another. I would think having them in a book together and not needing to worry about Babs having a solo would be more conducive towards successfully pairing them together.

There is also the issue of what their past relationship even is too. Continuity is a complete mess, but if the "everything is canon" thing holds true then does that mean their prior engagement is canon? If that is true then you can't really ease into a romance or keep it vague when the two were already engaged, right? Or have the two even dated before or even slept together? Throughout the New 52 it wasn't clear what their past was. It always just went back to the timing never being right or some excuse whenever it felt like their past came up. I feel like there needs to be some clarification on it all, but it is one of those things that I don't really expect them to want to deal with and prefer to keep it vague unfortunately so they can drag out and tease a romance like they have been.

[Frontier]

There is also the issue of what their past relationship even is too. Continuity is a complete mess, but if the "everything is canon" thing holds true then does that mean their prior engagement is canon? If that is true then you can't really ease into a romance or keep it vague when the two were already engaged, right? Or have the two even dated before or even slept together? Throughout the New 52 it wasn't clear what their past was. It always just went back to the timing never being right or some excuse whenever it felt like their past came up. I feel like there needs to be some clarification on it all, but it is one of those things that I don't really expect them to want to deal with and prefer to keep it vague unfortunately so they can drag out and tease a romance like they have been.

I think you can keep it vague enough that they have a long and storied romantic history and connection with each other that you can play into with them as partners.

I think there is less of a need to keep them apart or not address the relationship when they're in the same book as each other. There's no Batgirl solo getting in the way.

[Badou]

I’m guessing she’s his campaign manager.

Oh God, please don't tell me they are going to go down the Batman Beyond future of Dick being mayor of Bludhaven. That would be my worst nightmare, lol.

[Godlike13]

He might just run in attempt to see what the deal with Zucco is. Which is usually his motivation for every job he takes.

[Claude]

Actually he said it is about Bludhaven. But he did also say its not about a lost, corrupted city ruled by fear and calling out for a hero. So hopefully they at least avoid the worst parts.

"What he chooses to do with this will demonstrate how different he is from Bruce Wayne. This isn't about Gotham. This is about Blüdhaven.

Ha! I'm not going to lie to you, fellas, I've been drinking heavily - I entirely misread that bit of the interview! Thanks for the polite and non-judgey correction - now to drink a lot of water....

[Ascended]

Baby steps. Even just a solid consistent run would go a long way right now. He don't have to actually make him A-list, thats beyond just one creator, but that being how he is choosing to see him is a comfort given how guys like Abnett, Lobdell, and Jurgens have been his architect for these past years. Guys who didn't see him as anything more then Batman's bitchboy or a throwaway mid tier character. Its not A-list or bust, it never really has been and doesn't even really need to be. But respect the sell. Give a **** about how your lead looks.

This. Nobody becomes A-list overnight, especially if we're talking about the "real" A-list, the heroes everybody on earth recognizes and knows a few details about. Hell, it's not really something that's even achievable, at least in the foreseeable future, unless DC stumbles upon a "perfect storm" moment.

But writing him in his own book like he's an A-lister? Putting in real effort to build his world up, and seeing that effort continue? Those are the first steps to a consistent, respected, strong IP (and also basic writing, which DC often forgets). And if that consistency and respect and effort remain long enough? Then the A-list discussion becomes a lot less about Dick's potential and a lot more about his actual value.

Anyway, the Bludhaven thing isn't the direction I'd run with. I'd have Dick live there, but not be tied to it the same way Bruce is tied to Gotham or Clark is to Metropolis. But I'm not writing the book, and I'll judge it on its own merits. It's not surprising that DC is still intent on using the city; it's a staple of the genre, and we ourselves have discussed the various boxes a character needs to check in order to (traditionally) become A-list and a home city is almost always on that list.

I'm still more than willing to see where this goes, even if it's not looking like the kind of high-concept, wanderlust-filled neo-Silver Age romp I'd write myself. It's not "my" direction but I'll take a strong, well done, quality street level Nightwing over more of the crap DC has given us. The font change to the title, getting one of their bigger remaining talents on the book....these are good signs and while I have neither forgiven nor forgotten what DC's done to us, I'm willing to give the new regime the opportunity to make up for past mistakes.

[Hypestyle]

I just saw the "Return of the Caped Crusaders" cartoon movie. It was a great feature of the original Robin portrayal, especially with Burt Ward as the voice.
I wonder what it would be like to have a Teen Titans comic or cartoon feature with that version of Robin and retro style portrayal of the other original Titans.