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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarek View Post
    I completely agree. Guys, please try to stay on topic. This is a discussion for Action 32. If you feel the need to discuss other issues or grievances you have with the story, please discuss them in the appropriate thread or create one of your own.
    Thank you.
    The damage caused by Diana's inaction only became evident in this issue. It was in this issue that Wonder Woman was also made aware of the seriousness of the Smallville coma problem via her conversation with Lana. Plus, the military had a direct role in the disastrous attack against Superman, which draws attention to the new God of War's failure to use her new powers to great effect. How is this not the place to discuss the Lois/Brainiac plot, particularly the consequences of Wonder Woman's costly strategic mistakes?

    If this topic doesn't interest you, then let's talk about a different aspect Action Comics #32. What do you like or dislike about the issue? How do you feel about Superman's refusing to exile himself to the moon?

  2. #47
    Incredible Member Xarek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    The damage caused by Diana's inaction only became evident in this issue. It was in this issue that Wonder Woman was also made aware of the seriousness of the Smallville coma problem via her conversation with Lana. Plus, the military had a direct role in the disastrous attack against Superman, which draws attention to the new God of War's failure to use her new powers to great effect. How is this not the place to discuss the Lois/Brainiac plot, particularly the consequences of Wonder Woman's costly strategic mistakes?

    If this topic doesn't interest you, then let's talk about a different aspect Action Comics #32. What do you like or dislike about the issue? How do you feel about Superman's refusing to exile himself to the moon?
    I think that if Lois wasn't the one being mind controlled and any other character was, you wouldn't be as bothered with WW's "costly mistake" as you put it. But moving on...
    I already gave my insight on the whole issue in my OP. And about Superman refusing to exile himself? That's actually a good question worthy of discussion. I think poor Supes was struggling too much with himself to even make that choice. And we have seen that he has been behaving erratically (basically he's freaking out). But worse than him not following Steel's advice, I think that his decision to help Corben, while honorable, was even more calamitous. And that is an interesting paradox that the issue presents to us. He was trying to still be Superman... and he was wrong.
    Searching for Samus Aran. Still.

  3. #48
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    I think ine of the problems with this Superman is how he can't save people, not even himself...it's become tiresome

    of course there is not other character, it's lois. and if i or anyone is fan or not, we have the rights to point errors in the storyline.

  4. #49
    Incredible Member Xarek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    I think ine of the problems with this Superman is how he can't save people, not even himself...it's become tiresome

    of course there is not other character, it's lois. and if i or anyone is fan or not, we have the rights to point errors in the storyline.
    Again, Blacksun, I understand that you are frustrated that a character you like has not been portrayed in the manner you think she should. Pointing out continuity gaps and plot holes is all good but please, try to stay on the point of the thread.
    Searching for Samus Aran. Still.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarek View Post
    Again, Blacksun, I understand that you are frustrated that a character you like has not been portrayed in the manner you think she should. Pointing out continuity gaps and plot holes is all good but please, try to stay on the point of the thread.
    It's not the way I think she should. It's the way she deserves, she is in Action Comics since #1. It's all on the point of the thread, see plot holes is part of the discussion of this issue.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarek View Post
    I think that if Lois wasn't the one being mind controlled and any other character was, you wouldn't be as bothered with WW's "costly mistake" as you put it. But moving on...
    The consequences of Diana's inattention to what she learned in Superman/Wonder Woman #8 were revealed in this issue. It's on-topic.

    I already gave my insight on the whole issue in my OP. And about Superman refusing to exile himself? That's actually a good question worthy of discussion. I think poor Supes was struggling too much with himself to even make that choice. And we have seen that he has been behaving erratically (basically he's freaking out). But worse than him not following Steel's advice, I think that his decision to help Corben, while honorable, was even more calamitous. And that is an interesting paradox that the issue presents to us. He was trying to still be Superman... and he was wrong.
    I think Superman's rejection of a lunar exile was proof that Wonder Woman and Lana were wrong to trust Superman right now. As you say, he's behaving erratically and is at war with himself. Superman will certainly get through this dark time somehow, but his judgment and thus the man himself cannot be trusted until something fundamentally changes.
    Last edited by misslane; 06-06-2014 at 05:19 PM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    The consequences of Diana's inattention to what she learned in Superman/Wonder Woman #8 were revealed in this issue. It's on-topic.



    I think Superman's rejection of a lunar exile was proof that Wonder Woman and Lana were wrong to trust Superman right now. As you say, he's behaving erratically and is at war with himself. Superman will certainly get through this dark time somehow, but his judgment and thus the man himself cannot be trusted until something fundamentally changes.
    I'm not sure about this. If Lois didn't used Corben as suicide bomb man, maybe superman wouldn't end his transformation in doomsday.
    I think there's a difference, he can't be trusted, but doesn't mean they have to attack him

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    I'm not sure about this. If Lois didn't used Corben as suicide bomb man, maybe superman wouldn't end his transformation in doomsday.
    I think there's a difference, he can't be trusted, but doesn't mean they have to attack him
    Okay, hold on, I didn't say anything about Superman deserving to be attacked. I believe Superman deserves to be deemed untrustworthy at the moment because his judgment is impaired. I did not suggest that the correct way to handle Superman during this troubled time would be to attempt to kill or destroy him. I believe lunar exile is probably a good idea.

  9. #54
    Incredible Member BlackFeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    I'm not sure about this. If Lois didn't used Corben as suicide bomb man, maybe superman wouldn't end his transformation in doomsday.
    I think there's a difference, he can't be trusted, but doesn't mean they have to attack him
    I agree with this. What happened doesn't depend only on one thing.

    -If Clark hadn't called Lois while he was under custody, Brainiac wouldn't have used his powers on him, and he wouldn't have fled.

    -If Clark didn't want to continue to do things on his own even in his conditions, he wouldn't have attacked Corben, and then no explosion would have happened.

    -If the military, after declaring him Enemy of the State, wasn't to attack him, nothing of this would have happened, and probably Clark would have accepted to go to the Moon.

    Anyway, I don't think he should have stayed alone. When he was alone, before Diana found him, he was not in good conditions. In a condition like his he needed to stay near those who trusted him, so that they could give him enough strength to control Doomsday, since he could control him only through his will.

    So, I'm not saying that the military or the civilians had to continue to trust him, but those close to him, yes, because in a moment like that, when he starts to not trust even himself, and he is horrified by what he is becoming, I think that support and trust from them would be necessary to him. (We have seen it in SM/WW 8. Diana trusted him when he wanted her to kill him, and someway he managed to control Doomsday).

    In conclusion I think that, hadn't Clark fled, or even after that, hadn't the military attacked him, nothing of this would have happened, since Steel had already reached him, and Diana was going to.
    "Sometimes, it's best not to be who we are...but who we aspire to be". (Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman #23)

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    Seriously though, that two panel spread with Diana's "Always." and Lana's "Fist bump." actually gave me chills, it was so.bloody.perfect.
    My favorite part of the issue.

    Superman should have gone to the moon a long ago.

    They should assign Wondy to watch him 24/7, but they're probably leaving that for Soule in SM/WW #9.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackFeath View Post
    -If Clark hadn't called Lois while he was under custody, Brainiac wouldn't have used his powers on him, and he wouldn't have fled.
    If Diana had been suspicious of Lois at all, then no one would have let her get close enough to Clark that Brainiac could influence him to leave.

    -If Clark didn't want to continue to do things on his own even in his conditions, he wouldn't have attacked Corben, and then no explosion would have happened.
    If Clark's hero friends didn't continue to trust Clark and his judgment, then he wouldn't have attacked Corben because he would have been on his way to the moon.

    -If the military, after declaring him Enemy of the State, wasn't to attack him, nothing of this would have happened, and probably Clark would have accepted to go to the Moon.
    If the new God of War, Wonder Woman, had used her fancy new powers to tell the military what to do as their ultimate commanding officer, then they wouldn't have attacked Superman and none of this would have happened.

    Anyway, I don't think he should have stayed alone. When he was alone, before Diana found him, he was not in good conditions. In a condition like his he needed to stay near those who trusted him, so that they could give him enough strength to control Doomsday, since he could control him only through his will.
    I don't think Superman should have stayed alone on the moon either, but he should have agreed to go. His insistence on not going suggests his judgment is not to be trusted.

    So, I'm not saying that the military or the civilians had to continue to trust him, but those close to him, yes, because in a moment like that, when he starts to not trust even himself, and he is horrified by what he is becoming, I think that support and trust from them would be necessary to him. (We have seen it in SM/WW 8. Diana trusted him when he wanted her to kill him, and someway he managed to control Doomsday).
    If Clark's closest friends trust him, and he tells them not to trust him, then it follows they should not trust him. Trusting that your friend or lover is fundamentally a good person who will get through this difficult time is not the same thing as trusting him to be in the right mental state to make decisions for himself. Even Lois in her confused state told Clark she believed he could get through this Doomsday thing. Diana refusing Clark's warped request for her to kill him is not an example of her trusting him. It's an example of her knowing the real Clark well enough to know that he was not speaking for himself in that moment.

    In conclusion I think that, hadn't Clark fled, or even after that, hadn't the military attacked him, nothing of this would have happened, since Steel had already reached him, and Diana was going to.
    I think that if Diana had suggested it would be unwise for Clark to speak to Lois because of the suspicious abilities the military reported her exhibiting, then none of this would have happened.
    Last edited by misslane; 06-07-2014 at 10:11 AM.

  12. #57
    Incredible Member BlackFeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    If Diana had been suspicious of Lois at all, then no one would have let her get close enough to Clark that Brainiac could influence him to leave.
    Yeah...suspicious of reported 'glowing eyes' when the soldier could just have seen not well. Suspicious even if after she talked to her, nothing seemed strange.

    If Clark's hero friends didn't continue to trust Clark and his judgment, then he wouldn't have attacked Corben because he would have been on his way to the moon.
    The suggestion to go to the moon was made by Luthor while Clark was already attacked. Before that Clark was in that facility and they were trying to cure him. Then he escaped, and Steel found him shortly before the attack.

    If the new God of War, Wonder Woman, had used her fancy new powers to tell the military what to do as their ultimate commanding officer, then they wouldn't have attacked Superman and none of this would have happened.
    You are supposing she can do that, when we are not sure. All she did before was talking mentally to a soldier, who seemed in control of himself, so much that he could ask her questions as well, so it's not even sure she was mind controlling him. And also...would that be morally acceptable, mind controlling all the military in doing what she wants, taking away their free-will? If she can, (we are not even sure), for her using her powers in that way would mean having the world against her. Think at how someone like General Lane or Lex would react.

    I don't think Superman should have stayed alone on the moon either, but he should have agreed to go. His insistence on not going suggests his judgment is not to be trusted.


    If Clark's closest friends trust him, and he tells them not to trust him, then it follows they should not trust him. Trusting that your friend or lover is fundamentally a good person who will get through this difficult time is not the same thing as trusting him to be in the right mental state to make decisions for himself. Even Lois in her confused state told Clark she believed he could get through this Doomsday thing. Diana refusing Clark's warped request for her to kill him is not an example of her trusting him. It's an example of her knowing the real Clark well enough to know that he was not speaking for himself in that moment.
    I think we are giving a different meaning to 'trust', in this case. Of course those close to him have to help him try to make the right choice. What I meant they should do is believing and supporting him since he is in a time of need. Keep on making him not give up on himself. That's what Diana did. Believed in him, trusted that he could control that monster if he tried.

    I think that if Diana had suggested it would be unwise for Clark to speak to Lois because of the suspicious abilities the military reported her exhibiting, then none of this would have happened.
    First she should have known of those suspicious abilities. The military didn't report to her: "her eyes glowed and she tried to mind-control us", they just said "her eyes were glowing, we took her in custody".

    Really...in her position...can you assume with certainty you would have suspected she was controlled by Brainiac? How? I, for one, would have thought something like this: "Strange. Maybe those soldiers had just that impression. Maybe it was just a reflex because of the lights. After talking with her, Lois seems to act as usually. Even trying to enter a restricted area is quite common for her..., it's just her work".

    Really...I can understand you are frustrated because of what is happening to Lois since she is your favourite character, but it would have been really strange to me if Diana was to be suspicious of her just for that. Seeing those glowing eyes alone, I don't think it is enough (and she didn't even see them personally). Probably she will need other hints to reach that conclusion. Plus, I think Brainiac is counting much on the fact everyone is distracted with what is happening to Superman. Everyone is worried about what he is becoming and is trying to find a cure, so much that it seems no one in the League is busy trying to get some answers about what happened in Smallville. Only Lana is there.

    Anyway, we know from the solicits that there will be a fight between Lois and Diana, so don't worry, what has happened to Lois will be discovered by them soon.
    "Sometimes, it's best not to be who we are...but who we aspire to be". (Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman #23)

  13. #58
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    I think that if Diana had suggested it would be unwise for Clark to speak to Lois because of the suspicious abilities the military reported her exhibiting, then none of this would have happened.
    I have to agree with Misslane about this. WW really saw that something was wrong with Lois and didn't took any action.

    It's pretty clear from smww #8 that WW controlled the soldiers to do things they didn't wanted to do. Seems like a power not well tought. She could have used to gain Superman some time with the military.

    Corben is dead because of this too. and it probably will end in Lois blame

  14. #59
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    No, she didn't see that something was "wrong" with Lois. She was told an odd detail about her appearance. While I've agreed since the beginning that's something that deserves further questioning, its not an automatic indication of something terribly wrong. And, to boot, Wonder Woman didn't see this, she was told it second-hand. Thus far with her own two eyes she has noticed absolutely nothing odd about Lois's behavior nor appearance. No one close to her has. S/he's really good at the subterfuge.

    Worthy of further questioning, yes. Indisputable red flag of a disaster to Lois' person and the rest of the world, hell no.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 06-07-2014 at 01:43 PM.

  15. #60
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    Really? if you ignore that of consequence of WW not doing anything about lois one man died and it unleashed superdoom. It is having bad consequences for everyone.
    of course Superman is also at the fault for not really taking care of Lois... Dr veritas lab is someplace superman can bring Lois to be scanned?

    yes, something is wrong when a person eyes glow and she escapes the military without any explication.

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