Has Xavier officially now been retconned as being younger than Magneto?

[bat39]

Something which occurred to me after reading X Lives/Deaths of Wolverine.

Now Ben Percy cleverly avoids using any exact dates for events like Xavier's birth which would logically fall under the ambit of the floating timeline. But we do get precise dates for some events naturally.

The one thing which is crystal clear is that, going by the timeline of Wolverine's life established by this story, Charles Xavier was born after the end of WW2.

Logan saves the life of Brian Xavier (Charles' father) as a young lieutenant during WW2. Logan's life with Itsu in Japan (which led to Daken's birth) is said to occur 'post-war'. And Charles Xavier's birth is very clearly placed after that in the timeline.

Now, let's assume that not a lot of time passed between Logan saving Brian Xavier during WW2 and the birth of Charles. Let's say it was just around 5 years or so. Even so, the earlier birth year Charles could logically have is sometime in the late 1940's/early 1950's. Which would still make him a good 20 years younger than Magneto, who's established as being born in 1928 (as per the Magneto Testament series). Even if we don't take that particular date as sacrosanct, he can't be a lot younger than that...we know he was at least a pre-teen while in the camps.

Xavier and Magneto's ages relative to each other is one of those problems with the sliding timeline that is only going to get worse as, ahem, time passes. If we go by what I've explained above, the earliest Xavier could have traveled to Israel as a volunteer helping Holocaust survivors would have likely been in the early-to-mid 1970's, when he'd be a young man in his twenties. And Magnus, whom he would have met there, would already be well into his forties and virtually old enough to be Charles' father!

It does change the complexion of their relationship somewhat - them not being contemporaries or having the same or similar amount of life experience when they first meet. Though I suppose it makes it easier for Magnus to dismiss Xavier's dream as 'youthful idealism'. But then that's not why he originally dismissed Xavier's dream, so it also changes things.

I dunno...what are your thoughts on this?

[Rzerox21xx]

Simple solution to the sliding timescale for Magneto and Xavier. They both have slower aging or mutants period have longer lifespan than humans. I don't know.

[ETMike1988]

Or the Second World War and Holocaust happened years and years and years later in the Marvel Comics Universe!?

[Triniking1234]

Professor X is probably a 70s baby since Morrison.

[Dizzystarr]

He's always been written as being younger than Magneto like round 5 years or so younger

[Uncanny X-Man]

Character ages are always tricky with the sliding timescale, except for when there are certain characters whose life events cannot be updated to more recent ones. Then these characters create issues for everyone else around them, which is why it's better to just ignore the problem completely because there's no mental gymnastics that can help you after a while.

Case in point, Magneto. His own age is easily explained away by the "reverting to infancy then restored to his prime" story, however that doesn't change the fact he was still a child in WW2. But if the X-Men were fighting him when they were 16, how old would they be now? Or did Magneto have DECADES of inactivity after his powers emerged?

Or Wanda and Pietro, regardless of the fact that they're not Erik's children anymore these days, but their timeline should still align with his in order for their previous origin to make sense, meaning they should be born in the early 50s at the latest. And so on and so forth...

[Habis]

In the original chronology, Magneto was a child during the beginning of WWII, during 1939, and he was young adult at the end of WWII, during 1945, and Xavier fought (as a young adult too) in the Korean War, in 1950-1953, so, if anything, Xavier was a bit younger from the beginning.

That has been retconned, of course. Tony Stark, for example, was wounded in the US War in Afghanistan in 2011, instead of in the Korean War, and Reed Richards and Ben Grimm are no longer WWII veterans (yep! Reed Richards and Ben Grimm were originally as old as Steve Rogers, and older than Magneto!). So I guess Xavier either didn't fought in any war now, or he may have fought in a more recent war (Marvel will probably choose to make him not having fought in any war... to my knowledge, the United States hasn't drafted conscript soldiers since the Vietnam War, and I can't see current Xavier becoming a professional American soldier on his own will...).

[Gray Lensman]

In the original chronology, Magneto was a child during the beginning of WWII, during 1939, and he was young adult at the end of WWII, during 1945, and Xavier fought (as a young adult too) in the Korean War, in 1950-1953, so, if anything, Xavier was a bit younger from the beginning.

That has been retconned, of course. Tony Stark, for example, was wounded in the US War in Afghanistan in 2011, instead of in the Korean War, and Reed Richards and Ben Grimm are no longer WWII veterans (yep! Reed Richards and Ben Grimm were originally as old as Steve Rogers, and older than Magneto!). So I guess Xavier either didn't fought in any war now, or he may have fought in a more recent war (Marvel will probably choose to make him not having fought in any war... to my knowledge, the United States hasn't drafted conscript soldiers since the Vietnam War, and I can't see current Xavier becoming a professional American soldier on his own will...).

I could see it as trying to get away from his stepfather - the man was described as being pretty abusive. But I can't envision a second enlistment out of him.

[yogaflame]

Xavier is younger than most people think. Morrison aged him specifically at 41 during his run. He fathered David in his early 20's, and David was introduced as an older teenager in New Mutants(in the 80's, but sliding timeline adjusted...), so that tracks with Morrison's age. He was in his early 30's circa Uncanny #1, which also checks out with his original run origin scene, which says it was about 10 years before that Cain was lost in the jungles at the Cyttorak temple.

Magneto's age is more of a wildcard because of the fixed WW2 stuff(which was only applied long after his debut, in the late 70's/early 80's, when WW2 still wasn't all that long ago), and the de/reaging by The Stranger/Erik The Red. Nevertheless, at no point has it ever been intimated that Magneto was supposed to be younger than Xavier. They were presented as peers and friends in Claremont's earliest stories of their initial meetings, if anything Magneto was a little older from jump.

[bat39]

He's always been written as being younger than Magneto like around 5 years or so younger

There's a world of difference between 5 years younger and ''young enough to be Magneto's son''.

I guess I should have been clearer in my post title that by younger I meant significantly younger. Because the general perception is that Xavier and Magneto are contemporaries. (Consider the actors who play them - Fassbender and McAvoy are around the same age, as are Stewart and McKellan).

Xavier is younger than most people think. Morrison aged him specifically at 41 during his run. He fathered David in his early 20's, and David was introduced as an older teenager in New Mutants(in the 80's, but sliding timeline adjusted...), so that tracks with Morrison's age. He was in his early 30's circa Uncanny #1, which also checks out with his original run origin scene, which says it was about 10 years before that Cain was lost in the jungles at the Cyttorak temple.

Magneto's age is more of a wildcard because of the fixed WW2 stuff(which was only applied long after his debut, in the late 70's/early 80's, when WW2 still wasn't all that long ago), and the de/reaging by The Stranger/Erik The Red. Nevertheless, at no point has it ever been intimated that Magneto was supposed to be younger than Xavier. They were presented as peers and friends in Claremont's earliest stories of their initial meetings, if anything Magneto was a little older from jump.

Yeah, its a bit hard to think of Xavier as being young since we're all so used to the idea of being this older man in his 40's or 50's, if not his 60's or older. But come to think of it, in the original 60's run, its not as though he was ever depicted as being particular old...just old enough to be a mentor/teacher to the teenage X-men.

Magneto's age was unknown (as was his face...I don't recall the first time we saw him without his helmet. Was it sometime during the 60's run?).

The funny thing is that the Xavier/Magneto retcon in the 80's arguably ''aged up'' the characters a bit. Physically, Magneto and Xavier would have to both be in their 50's as per the new backstory of them being colleagues at a hospital in Israel in the years following WW2 (and Magneto being a child during the war). Of course, in the present-day Magneto had been de-aged to look like he was in his 30's. One can argue that when Xavier's mind was transferred into a clone body he became physically younger as well. But their physical ages aren't the point...as time went on in the real-world, the gap between Xavier and Magneto in early 50's Israel, and the events of Uncanny X-men #1 only grew wider. If we assume that currently the X-men's first mission against Magneto occurred around 2007, then Xavier and Magneto would both have been well into their seventies! And this was before any known physical de-aging for either of them...

Of course, if we take it that Xavier's age is pegged in his mid-to-40's right now (and he was in his early 30's when he founded the X-men), then he'd have been born sometime in the mid-to-late 1970's (which already seems a bit late going by X Lives/Deaths of Wolverine since it would mean that Brian Xavier was almost 50 by the time his son was born). That means the earliest he would have been able to meet Magneto in Israel would be sometime in the late 90's/early 2000's (incidentally, Gabrielle Haller wouldn't be a young woman but someone well into her sixties or seventies if she's still a Holocaust survivor...but that's another story). Magneto (or Magnus as he was then) would be pushing 70 when he meets the young 20-something Xavier. Maybe he underwent a de-aging process of some sort earlier or maybe he spent a few decades in suspended animation ala Captain America. But there's no denying that Magneto is a survivor of the Holocaust and Xavier would be a Gen X'er (pun intended!)

I think at some point it makes sense for Marvel to do one of its famous flashback/retcon miniseries and rewrite the circumstances of Xavier and Magneto's first meeting. Here's how I would do it - at some point in the 50's, maybe after Anya leaves Magnus and Magda dies (I honestly dunno the chronology for the births of Wanda, Pietro and Lorna Dane so leaving that aside for now) and he's spent some time Nazi hunting, he is placed in some kind of suspended animation - perhaps by the High Evolutionary or the CIA or Mossad or whoever (maybe a nascent Weapon X program?). He is re-awakened/released around 25-30 years ago. He finds himself lost in a new world where the Holocaust was a distant memory but still casts long shadows. Maybe he goes back to Nazi hunting for a bit (there are still a few Nazis around). Eventually he finds himself in Israel and that's when he meets Charles Xavier. Charles is at a hospital helping Gabrielle Haller (who is not a Holocaust survivor but someone who was visiting a warzone and was briefly taken prisoner and is suffering from PTSD as a result). The two become friends, work together to stop Baron Strucker (who would still be around I guess since he's another WW2-era character who's been rejuvenated/ressurected) and have their falling out over their ideologies (Magneto, who was actually around for the Holocaust, unlike the Gen Xer Xavier, thinks Charles is an idealist who hasn't really seen how ugly the world could get). So they go their separate ways and about 10-15 years later, the events of Uncanny X-men # 1 occur.

[Triniking1234]

Clearly, Magneto's origin needs re-adjusting.

[DarkMagnus]

Reboot the thing. and problem solved

[bat39]

Clearly, Magneto's origin needs re-adjusting.

Yeah. But I don't really see them getting rid of the WW2 connection. Him being a survivor of the Holocaust has become an integral part of his character now, especially after the movies.

I'm curious to know how the MCU handles it though. If they come up with an updated origin for him that gets rid of the Holocaust backstory, then I guess its possible that the comics will follow suit. But I think they're definitely going to have to address it one way or the other in live-action. Because if they cast a 30-40 something or a 50-60 something as Magneto they're gonna have to explain how he's still around if he was a Holocaust survivor as a child.

[ETMike1988]

Maybe there was another Holocaust in the MCU but happened later!?

[Habis]

Yeah. But I don't really see them getting rid of the WW2 connection. Him being a survivor of the Holocaust has become an integral part of his character now, especially after the movies.

I'm curious to know how the MCU handles it though. If they come up with an updated origin for him that gets rid of the Holocaust backstory, then I guess its possible that the comics will follow suit. But I think they're definitely going to have to address it one way or the other in live-action. Because if they cast a 30-40 something or a 50-60 something as Magneto they're gonna have to explain how he's still around if he was a Holocaust survivor as a child.

I dunno... if they keep Magneto's original introduction as similar to the comics, I can see Disney choosing not to make a Holocaust survivor into a racial supremacist terrorist... many people has always perceived that as very distasteful and disrespectful towards Holocaust victims...

That doesn't come often in these forums, but the majority of the public hasn't the unconditional love for mutant characters that is prevalent here... I mean if you make a movie and have Apocalypse try to kill 99 % of Humanity, X-fans will still give him the benefit of the doubt, but for the rest of the world he is an irredeemable villain who needs to be killed. People out there who haven't been in love with the X-Men for like 40 years don't see things like devoted X-fans do.

So, either Disney will whitewash Magneto and make him a poor misunderstood victim who was never a true terrorist, or they will keep him as a terrorist but they will avoid the Holocaust origin to avoid insulting real Holocaust survivors...