Does DC like Superman?

[Powerboy]

You are right, every character is humiliated at one time or another and of course we notice it more if it is a character we care about. So a very simple question to you and everyone who reads the comment. who has been controlled the most and turned into a villain?
superman
wonder woman
batman
green lantern
Flash
aquaman
Cyborq

My problem is I don't read a lot of current DC stuff. I am starting to read a lot of current Marvel stuff for the first time in decades but that's because of Marvel Unlimited. Not sure if DC has a similar deal where you pay the subscription and read almost everything on-line for free after that. If there is, I would appreciate the information.

I am on the Superman board semi-regularly so I tend to hear the opinions of those who favor Superman.

I check the WW board once in a while and I did collect a lot of the Post-Crisis WW. In fact, I feel Rucka ended/ destroyed the concept Perez started of the PC WW as the Princess of Peace even if it was later retconned.

Loved Batman when I was a kid and even the Year One and Two stuff. I don't like him as much in team books because they do the same thing Marvel does in a team book. The really powerful characters get dumbed down and powered down so the CMPHs can be the main guys.

But I can't say who really gets the worst of it.

I will say, though it's off topic, that the guy I really like, when presented in a certain way, is the Martian Manhunter. He's an immigrant too. But he's a Stranger in a Strange Land, someone who chooses to look like he really looks most of the time even though he could hide. It gives the real problem of the Immigrant in America which is a very relevant story today.

[Rightoya]

green lantern can be defeated in different ways that superman cannot, but the opposite is also true, the difference is that superman has weaknesses that suppose an instantaneous defeat if they are in the hands of beings of his level. bullets are more common than kryptonite, but a green lantern a superman etc with a gun does not mean the defeat of ww, give them kryptonite and superman is dead, without forgetting that kryptonite is so common in superman comics, that It seems as if all Krypton ended up on Earth, I'm sure there are a thousand times more examples of Superman vs Kryptonite than WWV vs Bullets. I asked you about a character with weaknesses for two very simple reasons.
1: to prove that superman has so many weaknesses, as the heavyweights of DC and MARVEL together.
2: to demonstrate how vulnerable superman is, any villain or level hero can obtain kryptonite or red sun, practically ensuring the defeat of superman, magic and telepathy are rarer but they serve to demonstrate how useless superman is against this class of villains, especially telepaths, not only do they defeat him, they turn him into a puppet, I'm sure there are a thousand times more examples of controlled superman than the rest of DC and MARVEL heroes together, a heore so vulnerable to telepathy is not a hero is a threat

Like i have said earlier already, Green Lantern comes by far the closest to fit to your argument, but his powers still work quite different than Superman's, and Flash even if you make the different case of him being overpowered and especially Wonder Woman still don't fit to your argument.

I have already told you why Wonder Woman's weakness can't be remotely as big as Superman's, and you're not even making a case for making Superman more powerful anymore, you're just making a case for why writers should stop with flanderizing kryptonite so much.

1. That would not mean much even if it were true, because Wonder Woman is not the only heavyweight with a far more common weakness than Superman's, just look at something like the heat weakness of Martian Manhunter or as a different kind of example how bad the yellow weakness of Green Lanterns would be in modern stories.
2. You are still just making a case for why they should stop with flanderizing kryptonite so much, and i doubt each villain could obtain red suns. Superman even often has telepathy resistance and is not nearly the only DC or Marvel heavyweight who can get telephatically controlled, or otherwise corrupted.

[NaVi]

Like i have said earlier already, Green Lantern comes by far the closest to fit to your argument, but his powers still work quite different than Superman's, and Flash even if you make the different case of him being overpowered and especially Wonder Woman still don't fit to your argument.

I have already told you why Wonder Woman's weakness can't be remotely as big as Superman's, and you're not even making a case for making Superman more powerful anymore, you're just making a case for why writers should stop with flanderizing kryptonite so much.

1. That would not mean much even if it were true, because Wonder Woman is not the only heavyweight with a far more common weakness than Superman's, just look at something like the heat weakness of Martian Manhunter or as a different kind of example how bad the yellow weakness of Green Lanterns would be in modern stories.
2. You are still just making a case for why they should stop with flanderizing kryptonite so much, and i doubt each villain could obtain red suns. Superman even often has telepathy resistance and is not nearly the only DC or Marvel heavyweight who can get telephatically controlled, or otherwise corrupted.

MM has all the powers of Superman at a very similar level, but also has a few extras, he can change shape, become intangible, absorb matter, telepathy, telekinesis, astral projection and I think a few more, MM is the perfect example, of a character with a stupid weakness, but who makes up for it with a power far superior to his peers, one of the possibilities I gave in my first comment. Green Lantern's weakness is stupid, but I don't think I can bring him to his knees with a yellow stone, WW's weakness is not a real weakness, with his speed and equipment it is impossible that a bullet can hit him (unless the writer is an idiot) and if a bullet can't hit it obviously a sword either, not to forget that WW is not hit by a bullet every 2 or 3 comics. Lex can get a red sun, Mongul can get a red sun, Breiniac can get a red sun, etc, Superman's villains are to be extremely powerful or intelligent, in any case they can get a red sun. And yes, every hero has been controlled at some point, but none as much as Superman, I think it is an undeniable fact, that Superman is the first level character, who has been controlled the most times.

[Rightoya]

MM has all the powers of Superman at a very similar level, but also has a few extras, he can change shape, become intangible, absorb matter, telepathy, telekinesis, astral projection and I think a few more, MM is the perfect example, of a character with a stupid weakness, but who makes up for it with a power far superior to his peers, one of the possibilities I gave in my first comment. Green Lantern's weakness is stupid, but I don't think I can bring him to his knees with a yellow stone, WW's weakness is not a real weakness, with his speed and equipment it is impossible that a bullet can hit him (unless the writer is an idiot) and if a bullet can't hit it obviously a sword either, not to forget that WW is not hit by a bullet every 2 or 3 comics. Lex can get a red sun, Mongul can get a red sun, Breiniac can get a red sun, etc, Superman's villains are to be extremely powerful or intelligent, in any case they can get a red sun. And yes, every hero has been controlled at some point, but none as much as Superman, I think it is an undeniable fact, that Superman is the first level character, who has been controlled the most times.

Martian Manhunter is in fact the best example against your idea, cause he is for a good reason such a crazy jobber, or not present when he would be the easy solution.

If Green Lantern woud still have the classic weakness could anyone in his ballpark literally just paint their fists yellow, or wear yellow gloves for that to become a problem.

To call Wonder Woman's weakness no real weakness is just ludicrous, anyone and their mother could obtain a weapon of the piercing kind, and super strong or super fast characters literally just need to throw sharp objects at her for that weakness to come into play. And what is wrong with your use of personal pronouns?

Then writers should just stop with making it so easy to get these, that is a far more logical solution than let other superheroes look bad and make Superman overpowered in comparison.

I doubt that is a fact, did you make a statistical study, or why should that be undeniable?

[DochaDocha]

To call Wonder Woman's weakness no real weakness is just ludicrous, anyone and their mother could obtain a weapon of the piercing kind, and super strong or super fast characters literally just need to throw sharp objects at her for that weakness to come into play. And what is wrong with your use of personal pronouns?

Superman's mythos kind of blew over the barn doors on what "weakness" means.

I've had my fair share of takes on Superman vs. Batman fights, and the pro-Bat crowd likes to bring up how Batman doesn't have a weakness (or at least no weakness like Superman does). My opinion is that's ridiculous, for reasons you say, but in comic fan circles "weakness" often means something that does to you as Kryptonite does to Superman.

I'm fine with saying modern-day WW has no weakness. There's nothing that generally makes her powerless or beats her so resoundingly. Someone stronger, a powerful-enough weapon or magic, etc. will beat her, but that's universally true of anything. There's nothing a weak person can try to leverage to swing the balance onto his side. So if you had to say WW had a vulnerability, it's that she's not on the very top of the totem pole in a lot of key areas like strength, durability, speed/agility, and tech.

I'm in favor of making Superman as powerful as reasonably (whatever "reasonable" means) possible, so I'm in favor of the idea that he isn't completely debilitated by Kryptonite; without yellow sunlight, he's still stronger than the average human because Kryptonians are tougher than Earthlings; under yellow sunlight, he's powered like a plugged-in electronic device but under red sunlight he's running on battery reserves (i.e. can function at full capacity but that power level is draining); magic is basically just another way to manipulate space-time, matter, and energy, so magic works effectively against Superman if it's powerful enough, but if it's really weak it doesn't have material effect on him.

[Rightoya]

Superman's mythos kind of blew over the barn doors on what "weakness" means.

I've had my fair share of takes on Superman vs. Batman fights, and the pro-Bat crowd likes to bring up how Batman doesn't have a weakness (or at least no weakness like Superman does). My opinion is that's ridiculous, for reasons you say, but in comic fan circles "weakness" often means something that does to you as Kryptonite does to Superman.

I'm fine with saying modern-day WW has no weakness. There's nothing that generally makes her powerless or beats her so resoundingly. Someone stronger, a powerful-enough weapon or magic, etc. will beat her, but that's universally true of anything. There's nothing a weak person can try to leverage to swing the balance onto his side. So if you had to say WW had a vulnerability, it's that she's not on the very top of the totem pole in a lot of key areas like strength, durability, speed/agility, and tech.

I'm in favor of making Superman as powerful as reasonably (whatever "reasonable" means) possible, so I'm in favor of the idea that he isn't completely debilitated by Kryptonite; without yellow sunlight, he's still stronger than the average human because Kryptonians are tougher than Earthlings; under yellow sunlight, he's powered like a plugged-in electronic device but under red sunlight he's running on battery reserves (i.e. can function at full capacity but that power level is draining); magic is basically just another way to manipulate space-time, matter, and energy, so magic works effectively against Superman if it's powerful enough, but if it's really weak it doesn't have material effect on him.

Well let's just go with a reasonable definition of what weakness means instead, otherwise has no healthy average person on our planet a weakness in anything they try anymore, and that makes no sense.

The fact that something as weak like a bullet can do anything to Wonder Woman means that she is much weaker to weapons of the piercing kind than to anything else, which is per logical definition a weakness.

I agree, my issue is not to make Superman powerful as long as he don't sneezes solar systems away again or to balance his weaknesses better, my issue is the demand in this thread to make him more powerful than Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern or other characters who shouldn't be truly less powerful if not even outright make them look bad and ineffectual like in the Justice League movie, based on Superman having weaknesses or the even worse argument that it would be his natural right as the arguably first comicbook superhero.

[DochaDocha]

The fact that something as weak like a bullet can do anything to Wonder Woman means that she is much weaker to weapons of the piercing kind than to anything else, which is per logical definition a weakness.

I think modern-day WW's weakness to stuff like bullets is pretty unclear. Just off the top of my head, one of the Injustice comics, I think, showed bullets bouncing off her, but this thread also has that scan where a bullet deflected off Superman and hurt WW.

I personally am of the opinion that ordinary bullets and knives are ineffective against WW if you insist that WW can trade blows with Superman. I don't accept that shooting WW with a gun would do more damage than getting punched really hard by the toughest comic superheroes.

[Agent Z]

Didn't you read? I said her being injured by weapons is cool.She is badass like that.I also said, superman's weakness to the kryptonite is lame. K-metal needs to be changed up as a concept.

Nothing you said here makes any damn sense.

[Agent Z]

2: superman ended up on his knees, by the simple presence of kryptonite, or magic, tell me once ww ended on his knees by the simple presence of a bullet.

Did you miss the picture shown when Diana immediately went down from a bullet hitting her in the throat?

[Agent Z]

I don't think main continuity Superman has ever killed an innocent person while under mind-control.

Batman on the other hand, has killed many innocents while under mind-control.

When did he do this?

[Agent Z]

I check the WW board once in a while and I did collect a lot of the Post-Crisis WW. In fact, I feel Rucka ended/ destroyed the concept Perez started of the PC WW as the Princess of Peace even if it was later retconned.

Can't destroy something that never existed.



Seriously, where did this image of Wonder Woman being a pacifist come from?

[NaVi]

Did you miss the picture shown when Diana immediately went down from a bullet hitting her in the throat?

1: ww is weak against bullets, but for a bullet to be effective it has to reach its target, ww is at least light speed, tell me how fast a bullet moves.
2: Kryptonite doesn't have to touch Superman, its mere presence brings him to his knees.
I already have this question and no one answered me, if you answer me.
ww with shield, lasso, sword, kryptonite vs superman with a gun.
who wins.

[NaVi]

Martian Manhunter is in fact the best example against your idea, cause he is for a good reason such a crazy jobber, or not present when he would be the easy solution.

If Green Lantern woud still have the classic weakness could anyone in his ballpark literally just paint their fists yellow, or wear yellow gloves for that to become a problem.

To call Wonder Woman's weakness no real weakness is just ludicrous, anyone and their mother could obtain a weapon of the piercing kind, and super strong or super fast characters literally just need to throw sharp objects at her for that weakness to come into play. And what is wrong with your use of personal pronouns?

Then writers should just stop with making it so easy to get these, that is a far more logical solution than let other superheroes look bad and make Superman overpowered in comparison.

I doubt that is a fact, did you make a statistical study, or why should that be undeniable?

MM is a second-level hero, you can't compare his presence in different events with superman, ww, batman, etc, it's like saying that the league is useless because cities like Gotham still exist. Green Lantern's weakness was stupid and that's why it no longer exists, Superman's weakness is stupid but it still exists, that's the problem. the weakness of ww to bullets is not real, because a bullet could never hit ww, unless the writer forgets the powers of ww, not to say that the weakness to bullets appears and disappears. Superman's weakness has been present in almost all of its history and it does not seem to disappear. not to forget that there is kryptonite capable of taking superman's powers forever. But let's say kryptonota and bullets are the same. superman has magic, red sun, telepathy, tell me besides the bullets that ww has.

[Agent Z]

1: ww is weak against bullets, but for a bullet to be effective it has to reach its target, ww is at least light speed, tell me how fast a bullet moves.

Not nearly fast enough to hit her yet it did.

2: Kryptonite doesn't have to touch Superman, its mere presence brings him to his knees.

Kryptonite gives off radioactive energy. It doesn't have to touch him to affect him. Furthermore, this doesn't happen all the time. Superman regularly fights and thrashes Metallo a guy with kryptonite on him 24/7. He once beat Luthor even after being hit with kryptonite-powered beams.

The existence of kryptonite is far from compelling evidence that DC mistreats Superman. Not saying they don't but you're going to need something better than that.

ww with shield, lasso, sword, kryptonite vs superman with a gun.
who wins.

Going by DC's track record, Superman 8 out of 10 times and that is me being generous.

[Agent Z]

MM is a second-level hero, you can't compare his presence in different events with superman, ww, batman, etc, it's like saying that the league is useless because cities like Gotham still exist. Green Lantern's weakness was stupid and that's why it no longer exists, Superman's weakness is stupid but it still exists, that's the problem. the weakness of ww to bullets is not real, because a bullet could never hit ww, unless the writer forgets the powers of ww, not to say that the weakness to bullets appears and disappears. Superman's weakness has been present in almost all of its history and it does not seem to disappear. not to forget that there is kryptonite capable of taking superman's powers forever. But let's say kryptonota and bullets are the same. superman has magic, red sun, telepathy, tell me besides the bullets that ww has.

How is it stupid? So many Superman fan keeps saying this yet never explains why?

Wonder Woman is just as vulnerable to telepathy and magic as Superman while not being as strong as him and lacking several of his other abilities. Try again.