Christopher Nolan thoughts on Snyder's Superman

[sunofdarkchild]

Man of Steel had really great ideas that it couldn't adequately explore and wasn't well edited. I can admire certain individual scenes as well as what the film was overall trying to do, but the execution was lacking much of the time. I think with a few edits and maybe a couple of scenes added to flesh out some of those great ideas the movie could have been the best superhero film of the decade, but whether it was because Snyder just can't manage ideas as well as Nolan or because the project was too ambitious for its own good, it didn't live up to its potential.

BvS was even worse, but not because of how it handled Superman other than by killing him at the end. It totally messed up its Lex, should never have had Doomsday, and had a horrendous depiction of Batman. Someone made an argument about how the movie would have been miles better if Batman had his no-kill rule intact and was trying to justify breaking it for the first time with Superman since he wasn't 'human,' and that the Martha line would have had its intended impact under those circumstances, and I have to agree. It still wouldn't have solved the villain problems, but it would make the title conflict much more meaningful.

[Agent Z]

Man of Steel had really great ideas that it couldn't adequately explore and wasn't well edited. I can admire certain individual scenes as well as what the film was overall trying to do, but the execution was lacking much of the time. I think with a few edits and maybe a couple of scenes added to flesh out some of those great ideas the movie could have been the best superhero film of the decade, but whether it was because Snyder just can't manage ideas as well as Nolan or because the project was too ambitious for its own good, it didn't live up to its potential.

BvS was even worse, but not because of how it handled Superman other than by killing him at the end. It totally messed up its Lex, should never have had Doomsday, and had a horrendous depiction of Batman. Someone made an argument about how the movie would have been miles better if Batman had his no-kill rule intact and was trying to justify breaking it for the first time with Superman since he wasn't 'human,' and that the Martha line would have had its intended impact under those circumstances, and I have to agree. It still wouldn't have solved the villain problems, but it would make the title conflict much more meaningful.

Him trying to kill Superman because he wasn't human is exactly what was going on. The entire point is that Superman's mere presence on Earth coupled with past tragedies caused Bruce to throw away almost everything he believed in.

As for Lex, his depiction is more in line with how certain celebrity CEOs like Elon Musk are seen today just as how Byrne's Lex was more like Trump in the 80s.

[Lokimaru]

Him trying to kill Superman because he wasn't human is exactly what was going on. The entire point is that Superman's mere presence on Earth coupled with past tragedies caused Bruce to throw away almost everything he believed in.

As for Lex, his depiction is more in line with how certain celebrity CEOs like Elon Musk are seen today just as how Byrne's Lex was more like Trump in the 80s.

You gotta remember that people hate updates of their favorite character even though the version of the character they fell in love with was himself an updated version. Hell they at like The Death of Superman was the first time the character ever died so must be preserved in amber. Sure it was an "imaginary story" but then aren't they all.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I don't see how. Wonder Woman 77 and Batman 66 were iconic, era defining TV shows. Smallville was a popular show.

The Snyderverse, more often than not, swayed between being polarizing, critically bashed, or outright flops, with Wonder Woman being the only success story because it was largely everything the Snyder films (and Suicide Squad) weren't. DC/WB isn't investing time and money to extend a version that ultimately left them with egg on their face.

If there's a chance to squeeze more money out of property in a way that is profitable, they will do so and the Snyderverse has some very dedicated fans.

[Agent Z]

I don't see how. Wonder Woman 77 and Batman 66 were iconic, era defining TV shows. Smallville was a popular show.

The Snyderverse, more often than not, swayed between being polarizing, critically bashed, or outright flops, with Wonder Woman being the only success story because it was largely everything the Snyder films (and Suicide Squad) weren't. DC/WB isn't investing time and money to extend a version that ultimately left them with egg on their face.

Wonder Woman 77 and Batman 66 aren't exactly that popular nowadays either. Especially the former. Smallville's reputation has also greatly suffered recently and the comic sales weren't very strong. None of the Snyder films were flops. Not commercially anyway.

[sunofdarkchild]

Him trying to kill Superman because he wasn't human is exactly what was going on. The entire point is that Superman's mere presence on Earth coupled with past tragedies caused Bruce to throw away almost everything he believed in.

As for Lex, his depiction is more in line with how certain celebrity CEOs like Elon Musk are seen today just as how Byrne's Lex was more like Trump in the 80s.

And that would have gotten across much better if Batman wasn't constantly killing everyone who got in his way for the entire movie. There's no sense that this Batman has ever believed in anything, so there's no introspection or inner conflict. He just goes from murderer to deciding not to murder one guy while continuing to murder everyone else.

[_Feely_]

Zack Snyder is a phenomenal director. F##k you.

Zack Snyder has made some terrible movies. His Superman double-feature ranks up there. F##k you.

There's an almost insurmountable hurdle in trying to deconstruct and rebuild a historical, global cultural icon for a new century when your Art leans heavily on the very pillars that have defined said character for decades. "He's got no pants! This ain't your Daddy's Superman!". Hard pass, chum.

Plus, Snyder clearly read Watchmen and went, "That's how you do Superheroes!". Whoosh...

To be kind - That scene of Supes with the Día de Muertos crowd? Those folks with all the skulls painted on their faces? Right there. That's everything Snyder was trying to say (imo), and it's brilliant. That scene/ shot is Deep. Bravo.

[Agent Z]

And that would have gotten across much better if Batman wasn't constantly killing everyone who got in his way for the entire movie. There's no sense that this Batman has ever believed in anything, so there's no introspection or inner conflict. He just goes from murderer to deciding not to murder one guy while continuing to murder everyone else.

It's stated no less than twice that use of lethal force is a new thing for this Batman.

Also, I really wish comic book fans would learn the difference between murder and self defense.

[Vordan]

Wonder Woman 77 and Batman 66 aren't exactly that popular nowadays either. Especially the former. Smallville's reputation has also greatly suffered recently and the comic sales weren't very strong. None of the Snyder films were flops. Not commercially anyway.

Both MoS and BvS were under performers though, and I’d bet a princely sum that if Snyder’s JL has released unaltered it would’ve flopped even harder than the one we got did.

[stargazer01]

IMO Snyder's take on Superman is simply too tragic. There is so little room for optimism. Superman has no opportunity to feel happy to just be him. No wonder general audiences didn't embrace it like it should.

From a deleted scene in BvS deciding if he should go save his mother, Martha.


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[Last Son of Krypton]

IMO Snyder's take on Superman is simply too tragic. There is so little room for optimism. Superman has no opportunity to feel happy to just be him. No wonder general audiences didn't embrace it like it should.

From a deleted scene in BvS deciding if he should go save his mother, Martha.


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Seems a good scene. Why they cut all the interesting Superman scenes?

[GreatKungLao]

Seems a good scene. Why they cut all the interesting Superman scenes?

All 30 minutes that were cut from BvS belong to Superman and Lois Lane plotlines entirely. If you ever needed further proof that WB hates Superman.

[sunofdarkchild]

It's stated no less than twice that use of lethal force is a new thing for this Batman.

Also, I really wish comic book fans would learn the difference between murder and self defense.

Please provide the exact lines where that is said, because I can't find a single reference to that happening. The closest thing is a line from a producer that this Batman is much nastir than he was earlier in his career, which not only is not a confirmation,but isn't a line from the movie as he's a producer, not a character.

Almost none of Batman's kills in BvS are self-defense. Most of the time he is the one attacking and the enemies represent so threat to him at all because their weapons to squat to his armored vehicles. The closest his kills come to self-defense is when he rescues Martha Kent, but that is not his own defense but to rescue her. Then an argument can be made for justifiable manslaughter. But the Batmobile chase scene is unjustified manslaughter, if not outright murder.

Snyder very clearly does not get Batman. When giving an interview to justify how bloodthirsty Batman is, he says that the no-kill rule originated in the Burton movies and that Batman kills in the classic Frank Miller work. Both of which are so freaking stupid it's a wonder this guy was allowed anywhere near Batman.

[DochaDocha]

If you ever needed further proof that WB hates Superman.

The sad truth for us Superman fans is that there seem to be so few people who actually have a hand in creating Superman stories for WB/DC actually seem to love the character. How many guys involved in Superman projects would rather be working on some other DC hero?

Having a love of the character isn't itself a quality that earns you the job of writing for Superman, but I'm not at all interested in a guy who'd rather be working on Batman, be it Zack Snyder, Scott Snyder, Dee Snider...

[Agent Z]

Please provide the exact lines where that is said, because I can't find a single reference to that happening. The closest thing is a line from a producer that this Batman is much nastir than he was earlier in his career, which not only is not a confirmation,but isn't a line from the movie as he's a producer, not a character.

Almost none of Batman's kills in BvS are self-defense. Most of the time he is the one attacking and the enemies represent so threat to him at all because their weapons to squat to his armored vehicles. The closest his kills come to self-defense is when he rescues Martha Kent, but that is not his own defense but to rescue her. Then an argument can be made for justifiable manslaughter. But the Batmobile chase scene is unjustified manslaughter, if not outright murder.

Snyder very clearly does not get Batman. When giving an interview to justify how bloodthirsty Batman is, he says that the no-kill rule originated in the Burton movies and that Batman kills in the classic Frank Miller work. Both of which are so freaking stupid it's a wonder this guy was allowed anywhere near Batman.

There's the cops line about there being a "new kind of mean in him" when they find the sex trafficker bound and one of the conversations with Alfred brings it up.

Not every kill batman makes in BvS is a murder was my point. In the warehouse he isn't in an armored vehicle and didn't have time to plan a way to get her out without lethal force. Even in the car chase, the thugs are the ones shooting him first. Even ignoring that, Snyder at least knows Bruce is killing people and doesn't pretend otherwise.

And yes Bruce does kill people in Miller's TDKR. Unless you want to tell me dropping bombs on people and shooting people doesn't kill them. The idea that Batman being unhinged and not killing anyone would be as believable as saying no one died in the Metropolis battle.