Major possible Tim Drake SPOILERS

[JasonTodd428]

CBR reminds me of another forum i hang out in, where a lot of the userbase has simply been taught to expect better by years of reading the best the industry has to offer. And while they dont seem think the issue itself is bad, it just isnt doing it for them, then they list the reasons for this. Cant help but understand them.

Its a perfectly valid position to take, especially for those that have been reading comics since before i was born.

That's why I feel the way I do about 'Tec. I've been reading comics and manga for years so I've seen a lot both good and bad. Tynion does a lot of things well but his biggest problem to me has always been in the area of plotting and that right there is the aspect that makes or breaks a title for me. A book can be full of great character moments and epic fight scenes but if the plot is weak or full of holes or has no meat to it then I end up feel really dissatisfied. It's a bit like having to eat a pizza with only the sauce and crust but no toppings.

[Atlanta96]

That's why I feel the way I do about 'Tec. I've been reading comics and manga for years so I've seen a lot both good and bad. Tynion does a lot of things well but his biggest problem to me has always been in the area of plotting and that right there is the aspect that makes or breaks a title for me. A book can be full of great character moments and epic fight scenes but if the plot is weak or full of holes or has no meat to it then I end up feel really dissatisfied. It's a bit like having to eat a pizza with only the sauce and crust but no toppings.

I think it's more like a pizza with plenty of sauce and toppings, but no crust to hold it together.

[JasonTodd428]

I think it's more like a pizza with plenty of sauce and toppings, but no crust to hold it together.

Well the plot, while it does hold the story together, is where the meat of the story is so in that way it's also like pizza toppings. Maybe it's closer to a pizza with lots of sauce but no crust to hold it together nor toppings to give it substance. In any case I just find 'Tec to be lacking something that, for me, is a pretty important part of storytelling.

[oasis1313]

I can see multiple reasons for Oz to target Tim, most of which go with the idea that Oz is actually on Tim's side, but thinks he's moving too fast.

1: Tim as the key to the Young Justice generation, kind of like a smaller scale and quieter counterpart to Wally's role with the Titans. He still arguably the most high profile fourth generation hero and the only one of his peers to weather the storm of bad decisions that ruined ten Yj4; maybe you could argue that Cassie is in a similar place, but that's very debatable, and Tim's almost certainly a stronger brand. So, Oz has plans to help Tim get his old friends back and move past the New 52, but feels it's a delicate job and needs something more surgical than Tim forging ahead and maybe missing out on opportunities to help his friends.

2. Tim has some importance to the Batman Family's history beyond what we've already seen. I don't know what more they could use him to add back into the universe, but it's always possible. Maybe someone's got the hair-brained idea to go ahead and reincorporate Cass and Steph's old history! I doubt it, but it's a possibility.

3. Alternatively, maybe Oz was the one trying to preserve the YJ4 elements in a universe that Manhattan thought they no longer belonged in. As such maybe he worried that Tim's recent transition back to a more traditional portrayal was attracting Manhattan's attention, and he wanted him off the field before Manhattan swatted him. In this case, Oz would have somehow compelled the YJ4 heroes to exist so apart from their parent franchises to try and save them; Superboy's death thus becomes a sign of how Manhattan will kill any young hero who breaks from his vision of the universe.

The answer is obvious: Tim is the most precious member of the Bat-Family.

[SicariiDC]

CBR reminds me of another forum i hang out in, where a lot of the userbase has simply been taught to expect better by years of reading the best the industry has to offer. And while they dont seem think the issue itself is bad, it just isnt doing it for them, then they list the reasons for this. Cant help but understand them.

Its a perfectly valid position to take, especially for those that have been reading comics since before i was born.

Hh. I like this. It's def close to the nail, If not on the head. I feel like CBR is mostly populated with people that fancy themselves as (amateur or failed, in some sense) writers. and good god do they (over) analyze the hell out of these comic books. It's definitely not how a casual or Lehman fan would look at them. It honestly takes a lot of the fun out of reading comics imo.

But I totally get it. It's like how I wasn't just able to blindly enjoy hip-hop music once I started making it myself. Once you look behind the curtain (the internet is to blame for that too) it's kinda hard to feel the same way about Oz again. Lol pun mildly intended

[JasonTodd428]

and good god do they (over) analyze the hell out of these comic books. It's definitely not how a casual or Lehman fan would look at them. It honestly takes a lot of the fun out of reading comics imo.

I totally agree with you on this. Then again for some people (over) analyzing the hell out of comics online is part of the "fun". I don't really go out of my way to do that myself other then as a way to validate why I didn't like a particular book though. Personally, I just enjoy the books that I like and I don't really care about what flaws a book might have or how it fits into continuity so long as I enjoyed it. Those sort of nitpicky things don't really interest me.

[Orujo-man]

Hh. I like this. It's def close to the nail, If not on the head. I feel like CBR is mostly populated with people that fancy themselves as (amateur or failed, in some sense) writers. and good god do they (over) analyze the hell out of these comic books. It's definitely not how a casual or Lehman fan would look at them. It honestly takes a lot of the fun out of reading comics imo.

But I totally get it. It's like how I wasn't just able to blindly enjoy hip-hop music once I started making it myself. Once you look behind the curtain (the internet is to blame for that too) it's kinda hard to feel the same way about Oz again. Lol pun mildly intended

What is the problem of analyzing something? If I like something, fine. And if I don't like I say because I don't like. I don't think that's a problem, more in a forum for comics, whose purpose is this.

Another thing is being intorelant, or excessive, or insult other users (something I have not seen here, which is appreciated).

I can understand that people don't like someone opine bad about something you likes. Or vice versa, some one opines good about something you dislikes But this is a forum, it is precisely for that, to review and discuss. The good and the bad.

[Darkspellmaster]

What is the problem of analyzing something? If I like something, fine. And if I don't like I say because I don't like. I don't think that's a problem, more in a forum for comics, whose purpose is this.

Another thing is being intorelant, or excessive, or insult other users (something I have not seen here, which is appreciated).

I can understand that people don't like someone opine bad about something you likes. Or vice versa, some one opines good about something you dislikes But this is a forum, it is precisely for that, to review and discuss. The good and the bad.

The problem with analyzing anything, particually entertainment in any form, is that you pull it apart from the root up to see what's making it tick and then that wonder is gone because not only do you see the good, but you see the bad. It's why at times it's hard for me to play games because I have to pull the game apart to see what makes it work and what makes it not work. In this case it makes it so you can't just enjoy the moment. You see the flaws because you've trained yourself too, so you have to find other ways of enjoying it. Nothing wrong with it but it can some times put a crimp in how you enjoy a work.

[JasonTodd428]

What is the problem of analyzing something? If I like something, fine. And if I don't like I say because I don't like. I don't think that's a problem, more in a forum for comics, whose purpose is this.

Another thing is being intorelant, or excessive, or insult other users (something I have not seen here, which is appreciated).

I can understand that people don't like someone opine bad about something you likes. Or vice versa, some one opines good about something you dislikes But this is a forum, it is precisely for that, to review and discuss. The good and the bad.

There's nothing wrong with it but it does get in the way sometimes and I find myself irritated at times when I feel someone has gone overboard with it.

[Orujo-man]

The problem with analyzing anything, particually entertainment in any form, is that you pull it apart from the root up to see what's making it tick and then that wonder is gone because not only do you see the good, but you see the bad. It's why at times it's hard for me to play games because I have to pull the game apart to see what makes it work and what makes it not work. In this case it makes it so you can't just enjoy the moment. You see the flaws because you've trained yourself too, so you have to find other ways of enjoying it. Nothing wrong with it but it can some times put a crimp in how you enjoy a work.

If someone don't enjoy comics, like you compared with the games, I think it's better leave to read comics. And is an opinion, each one can do whatever he wants. But I don't think this is the case. Or not my case at least. Only we criticize and analize something that we didn't like. I repeat it's a forum. To share opinions, criticize and analize. Or I think so. Maybe I was wrong, I don't know.

[Orujo-man]

There's nothing wrong with it but it does get in the way sometimes and I find myself irritated at times when I feel someone has gone overboard with it.

Yeah I know, but this happens. Look all the threads about Duke, for example. It's unavoidable.

[millernumber1]

Yeah I know, but this happens. Look all the threads about Duke, for example. It's unavoidable.

As a participant in all those threads about Duke, I think that it's good to have mostly reasoned discussions and disagreements about these things. I don't come to great communities looking to just share all the same opinions, and I know that the writers and artists pour a lot of work into creating these things. I think that merits a lot of work understanding and trying to appreciate as well - and that comes with a certain amount of criticism. I would agree that it should be all criticism, and definitely not just complaining, but I think a community where we all agree and just say, "Yay, new book" every week isn't very appealing.

[JasonTodd428]

As a participant in all those threads about Duke, I think that it's good to have mostly reasoned discussions and disagreements about these things. I don't come to great communities looking to just share all the same opinions, and I know that the writers and artists pour a lot of work into creating these things. I think that merits a lot of work understanding and trying to appreciate as well - and that comes with a certain amount of criticism. I would agree that it should be all criticism, and definitely not just complaining, but I think a community where we all agree and just say, "Yay, new book" every week isn't very appealing.

I would find that kind of community boring myself however there have been times that I would go into a post to find it overwhelmingly negative about certain books or writers that I was enjoying and frankly I don't like that either. Criticism is all well and good but when the same posters come into every topic posted regarding that book or writer and repeats the same thing every time then it has devolved into less of a criticism and more of a complaint IMO. I have no issue with well thought out and supported criticism though.

[millernumber1]

I would find that kind of community boring myself however there have been times that I would go into a post to find it overwhelmingly negative about certain books or writers that I was enjoying and frankly I don't like that either. Criticism is all well and good but when the same posters come into every topic posted regarding that book or writer and repeats the same thing every time then it has devolved into less of a criticism and more of a complaint IMO. I have no issue with well thought out and supported criticism though.

I agree that if the community is too small, the conversations can become less interesting. But I think starting topics about positive things (rather than open/neutral types of threads) might balance that out (unless it gets overtaken by the negative, but one can't know until one tries!)

[JasonTodd428]

I agree that if the community is too small, the conversations can become less interesting. But I think starting topics about positive things (rather than open/neutral types of threads) might balance that out (unless it gets overtaken by the negative, but one can't know until one tries!)

I wish people would start more topics about the positives especially since Rebirth seems to have gotten a lot of positive reaction from fans and retailers. There are a lot of positive things happening and a lot DC is doing right at the moment but to read some people's comments you wouldn't think so.