Storm >>> APPRECIATION <<<

[DavidMunroe]

Agreed. I despise what he has done with the character and frankly with the team itself. But I will give credit where it's due. It's a shame because this issue (without Stormcaster) indicates he is very well capable of writing a strong-willed O'roro. Now the lightning thing is another beast in itself. I mean I don't blame him because this is a primary problem with most writers who include her. I can't recall the issue but O'roro herself mentioned that lightning isn't even her most powerful forms of attack, yet she is always shown using it. I will see if I can find the scan later.



LOLOL.. let them find out the hard way. The last time she was in an enclosed space she emerged from it a real GODDESS!!!



You are very most welcome David and I must say you have made some fascinating points. How can these transformation in one character drive so many stories (one being the biggest and having the greatest impact to the franchise) yet the attributes of the character who the previously mentioned transformed character was made to mimic be stifling and not relatable? Which brings me to the next great point you made. What does "relatable" even mean when you are talking about a character who lost her parents as a young child, trained as a thief on the streets of Cairo as an orphaned child, killed a man who attempted to rape her when she was a young girl, and then walked the plains of the Serengeti by herself? I mean we are not even talking about her powers yet but I don't know of anyone who can relate to a person who live a young life in such a way. So when I hear people talk about her being "relatable" my first question I always want to ask is "when was she ever relatable?" LOL. I find the complexities and ironies in her character the most interesting parts of who she is. She wields power that can destroy a planet, and potentially the universe, yet she walks the balance of never disrupting the natural order of things. She loves and cherishes life, yet she isn't afraid to kill when deemed necessary. She carries within her the blood of royalty and a heritage that goes back to the dawn of humanity, yet she give weight to titles or status. That said, I don't know if I find it fascinating but I do find it odd that the community celebrates the things about Jean that make her O'roro, yet people want to reject these very things in O'roro as a character. I guess, as I write this out, I do find that fascinating. That the some of the essential things that make O'roro - O'roro - we as fans push against that. The thing is, O'roro always possessed power that made her akin to a god but I think the degradation of the character both by writers as Marvel, as well as some fans need to see her be more relatable, has made it to where her being what she always was supposed to be now seems out of character, or as same call it, PIS. It's quite strange indeed, and this is what prompted me to post those images. To remind the community that the things Jean was doing when Marvel gave her the Phoenix boost was to put her on the level of O'roro. So as fans, I think we should be aware of this and it should definitely be something we NEVER forget despite the current climate in the Xbooks regarding her characterization.

Now in regards to her being a Goddess and her relatability factor, as I mentioned previously, I don't see how there has ever been a phase in her life where she "relatable" and this includes when she was powerless. When she lost her powers she did things that went beyond what I believe most people could or would want to endure. So I don't think she should be a relatable character that many would like her to be. She isn't a Spiderman, she's a goddess and she should be exemplary. Yes she can be vulnerable and those aspects of her character should be shown, but the strength of her character and power should also be shown and not be shied away from. All this things are to me what makes her exemplary, exceptional, and great. How about you and do you like the new development with her becoming a Goddess in Black Panther?

I haven't gotten to the X-treme Xmen era yet. I am just getting to the Nanny era stories were O'roro was reverted to a young girl and linked up with Gambit. The stories are soooooo good!!! Why do you ask though?

I effusively appreciate your fascination with my points Excellently posited. The double-standards that are being staunchly enforced especially when one reads subtextually between the lines are incredible, but not flabbergasting. I have my reasons for why cultural juggernauts like Superman, Batman and Thor can exhaust a whole host of planetary scale feats every Tuesday whilst still being subsumed in adulation and praise from their creators and fans whereas for Ororo it's that she must be sequestered and restrained in the usage of her abilities, or worse, seen and not heard. Other than the fact that she's almost exclusively been portrayed as to only knowing how to effectively weaponize lightning, what do you think the cause might be for some of the resistance to Ororo's fulfilment of her potential?

Indeed, as you've outlined she's endured a gamut of traumatic experiences the likes of which your average comicbook reader would not be able to automatically identify with or relate to, and yet she still managed to garner a legion of fans because of who she is. Adding to that point it's that even despite how larger than life she may seem, Claremont constructed the core of her character in such a way that even if she were to surpass the mortal coil into fool on Goddesshood, it'd still be a compelling progression and examination in the growth of Ororo's character because of its reconciliation with who she was and everything she's had to endure. Can I kindly ask, when did you first discover Ororo and what drew you to her? I was first introduced to her on the fateful day that I happened to watch TAS and I was mesmerized by this bombastic woman who could control the weather with her Shakespearean speeches lol! Little did I know that there was a veritable treasure trove of stories surrounding this character that I had yet to read and venture through.

That said, I don't know if I find it fascinating but I do find it odd that the community celebrates the things about Jean that make her O'roro, yet people want to reject these very things in O'roro as a character. I guess, as I write this out, I do find that fascinating.

It's interesting that you phrased this in such a way, because I think we've both seen real life examples of traits that are native to one woman be disparaged or minimized but when they are used to enhance another woman, they are celebrated and fawned over...


Exactly. She's not Peter Parker lmfao and additionally, she still resonates with millions of people across the world despite her lack of relatability. And in that I find something of a contradiction. Under Claremont's pen, she had mystical potential, had established underhanded connections with the Russian underworld iirc, was a thief, became romantically involved with a young king of Wakanda, was leader of the X-Men, received her own sanctioned team approved by the US government and many more things--and that all by definition substantiates what you've said, that these things aren't conventionally relatable things and yet there's still that push to restrain her from naysayers.

I think the development is interesting...I personally have always been preferential towards Ororo's character development and the expansion of her idiosyncrasies than the development of her powers, so it's nice that he's done what he's done and though I had a couple of issues with Ororo's statements regarding her being the Queen of Wakanda I am really grateful that he has expressed as much interest as he has in her. I am looking forward to subsequent consequential and substantial character developments to her character from his pen. In any case I am PROFOUNDLY appreciative of what Coates has accomplished with Ororo under his purview and I was laughing my AO when I was saw the solicits for the upcoming Gold issues and saw that Guggenheim was taking Ororo back to Kenya lmfaoooo. He is taking her BACK HOME. He is too funny. As in, what are the odds that he would construct a story about Ororo's potential goddesshood at the same time Coates is? Just too funny. I need to find a suitable gif for this because I could NOT when I saw those solicits looool.


Do you think Guggenheim knows what Coates is doing and he's just doing what he wants to do in spite of Coates' developments? Because what I find funny about this situation is that...I think he does lmfao.

I am really happy that you've been reading and enjoying the Claremont classics. So far, what iterations of Ororo's character development have you enjoyed the most thus far? I think my favourite period during his tenure was definitely the John Romita Jr era, when Ororo had fully donned the mohawk and was undergoing her metamorphosis. Such incredible character work. Losing her powers, encountering Forge, going back to Africa and that vision of her mother? Loved all of it. Also loved how resourceful she was without her powers, almost to the extent that I almost wished she hadn’t gotten them back. Almost, though!

I hope I'm not asking too many questions but what did you think of LifeDeath and her relationship with The Maker?

I asked about X-Treme X-Men because, aside from a couple of flaws--I think that series is an absolute masterpiece. I love how Claremont repurposes Storm's character going forward and gives her this big mandate, her character development and how forward-thinking she is portrayed as being. I think you will love it when you get to it.

[butterflykyss]

Marvel just announced that Sina's Iceman is getting a second volume for his solo. Meanwhile Storm fans are waiting around like

really chile??? news to me...

[LordAllMIghty]

I'm sorry I don't even want to think about a scenario where she isnt fully rebooted. especially considering that storm from foxmen never left cairo and became an xmen before being considered a goddess, which also means she would have never met tchalla if we going off the stories from canon. it wouldn't make any sense if they left it in tact to call her a goddess of any sort as she was never portrayed as one or worshipped as one.

Is it a bad thing that I totally forgot about Shipp as Storm...hell the whole movie...lol

[ShepardOakenshieldPrime]

Marvel just announced that Sina's Iceman is getting a second volume for his solo. Meanwhile Storm fans are waiting around like

Ugh I know, I'm mad about this but also happy that Marvel is actually allowing hers to come back, the team is just busy at the moment. I'm just hoping that Coates and Jen aren't keeping it on hold to the point where no one else can take the wheel. If Yost, Wood or Pak have the time I'd love to see what they can do (Pak I hope you've learned ur lesson).

[Rosa Snarks]

I'm happy for their fans and I personally liked Iceman's book. But even I felt a bit salty when I heard Wasp, then Iceman got books again.

Better be Janet Van Dyne cause this new wasp?
Attachment 67068

[juan678]

STORM FLEER ULTRA X-MEN ‘18, coming in July from Upper Deck David Nakayama

[skyvolt2000]

Ugh I know, I'm mad about this but also happy that Marvel is actually allowing hers to come back, the team is just busy at the moment. I'm just hoping that Coates and Jen aren't keeping it on hold to the point where no one else can take the wheel. If Yost, Wood or Pak have the time I'd love to see what they can do (Pak I hope you've learned ur lesson).

Well this is one of the consequences of using SOMEONE ELSE'S book to build up a character. IF Coates wanted a Storm book he should have did it instead of BP WOW & BP Crew.

Or do what was done with Duke in Batman-do backups in Panther's book. Then take all those pages and put them in a trade with a new story. Thus you have your Storm trade and maybe it would have seen the trade numbers Iceman and Nadia got.

It's easier to make your case for a Storm solo (be it under Coates or Gay or Pak) when its her name on the trade versus someone else's name who just had a billion dollar movie.

[butterflykyss]

I effusively appreciate your fascination with my points Excellently posited. The double-standards that are being staunchly enforced especially when one reads subtextually between the lines are incredible, but not flabbergasting. I have my reasons for why cultural juggernauts like Superman, Batman and Thor can exhaust a whole host of planetary scale feats every Tuesday whilst still being subsumed in adulation and praise from their creators and fans whereas for Ororo it's that she must be sequestered and restrained in the usage of her abilities, or worse, seen and not heard. Other than the fact that she's almost exclusively been portrayed as to only knowing how to effectively weaponize lightning, what do you think the cause might be for some of the resistance to Ororo's fulfilment of her potential?

Indeed, as you've outlined she's endured a gamut of traumatic experiences the likes of which your average comicbook reader would not be able to automatically identify with or relate to, and yet she still managed to garner a legion of fans because of who she is. Adding to that point it's that even despite how larger than life she may seem, Claremont constructed the core of her character in such a way that even if she were to surpass the mortal coil into fool on Goddesshood, it'd still be a compelling progression and examination in the growth of Ororo's character because of its reconciliation with who she was and everything she's had to endure. Can I kindly ask, when did you first discover Ororo and what drew you to her? I was first introduced to her on the fateful day that I happened to watch TAS and I was mesmerized by this bombastic woman who could control the weather with her Shakespearean speeches lol! Little did I know that there was a veritable treasure trove of stories surrounding this character that I had yet to read and venture through.



It's interesting that you phrased this in such a way, because I think we've both seen real life examples of traits that are native to one woman be disparaged or minimized but when they are used to enhance another woman, they are celebrated and fawned over...


Exactly. She's not Peter Parker lmfao and additionally, she still resonates with millions of people across the world despite her lack of relatability. And in that I find something of a contradiction. Under Claremont's pen, she had mystical potential, had established underhanded connections with the Russian underworld iirc, was a thief, became romantically involved with a young king of Wakanda, was leader of the X-Men, received her own sanctioned team approved by the US government and many more things--and that all by definition substantiates what you've said, that these things aren't conventionally relatable things and yet there's still that push to restrain her from naysayers.

I think the development is interesting...I personally have always been preferential towards Ororo's character development and the expansion of her idiosyncrasies than the development of her powers, so it's nice that he's done what he's done and though I had a couple of issues with Ororo's statements regarding her being the Queen of Wakanda I am really grateful that he has expressed as much interest as he has in her. I am looking forward to subsequent consequential and substantial character developments to her character from his pen. In any case I am PROFOUNDLY appreciative of what Coates has accomplished with Ororo under his purview and I was laughing my AO when I was saw the solicits for the upcoming Gold issues and saw that Guggenheim was taking Ororo back to Kenya lmfaoooo. He is taking her BACK HOME. He is too funny. As in, what are the odds that he would construct a story about Ororo's potential goddesshood at the same time Coates is? Just too funny. I need to find a suitable gif for this because I could NOT when I saw those solicits

Where have you been all my life beloved?!?! This post embodies nothing but truth and its so refreshing to read. I honestly believe a lot of the double standards around why Ororo has been stifled in power, as well as prominence within the Xbooks is due to her being a black woman. I think Jean's return is the most evidence of this. She returned to leading her own team and creating a path forward fo mutants that aligned with a vision she believes will lead to a better world for them all. She isnt wavering in her vision or the way she wishes to lead her team. Ororo, on the other hand after her marriage was dissolved, returned to co-leading the xmen by being given the job by kitty while also being Logan's plaything. Even though we as fans were promised big things upon returning to the xmen, her return was plagued by lackluster storytelling that didnt see the character evolve but regress to one who was incompetent, unsure of herself, and incapable of defeating a cloud. As much as the xbooks try to champion itself as diverse, it's very white and this can be seen in the leadership. This (these stories as well as Ororo's showingils) ultimately is a reflection of the diversity at the xoffices itself, which I imagine to be a boys club of white men.

And OMG!!! I was first introduced to Ororo through TAS as well and instantly fell in love. I want to say I played the original xmen arcade game before this but it didnt impact me in the way Xmen TAS did. I was such a stan, all of us as kids would play xmen and I had to and was always mistress of the elements!!!!! I also didnt realize all there was to Ororo and honestly even though I am one crazed fanatic on these boards i wasnt even fully aware of her awesomeness until i started reading the older Uncanny Xmen stories. It has given me so much appreciation for the character and also made it to where I don't have to rely on anyone's knowledge of the character but my own.

It boggles my mind the double standards I see that relate to his character, and especially within the fanbase. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions but I dont get the need to celebrate the aspects of Jean that were certainly taken from Ororo. Outside of her power levels, the type of resolve and confidence that Jean exudes in Red. The way Jean has impacted the entirety of the franchise from the Phoenix, to her off spring, etc. Where are these stories that hinge around Ororo and her mythos? Again I think the lack of diversity is the culprit and why I also think that the reason we see her get her greatest development she has had in years occur in books written by people who look like her.


Which leads me to this point. I most certainly and emphatically believe that what Guggs is doing is purposeful to troll the efforts Coates has taken with Ororo. I simply dont understand it. I first noticed it when the issue with red was released with Gambit and Ororo kissing and that same day Coates tweeted a scan from his issue to drop the following week showing Tchalla and Ororo being loving to one another. I cant proce it obviously but it certainly is not a coincidence that Guggs is going this "is storm a goddess" narration when Coates has already closed the discussion on that particular topic. It infruitates me because I know Coates, a black writer and a fan of the character, actually cares about her and showing her in a respectful manner. The same isnt true of guggs and I wish editorially would do a better job of minimizing his undermining attempts to devalue Coates work.


That said, I think the stories I have enjoyed the most was seeing her transformation upon returning from the Brood planet and being so resentful of Charles. Slowly seeing her transition to a more cold characters who puts her needs and desires before that of anyone else (including kittys annoying ass) was probably one of my favorites; which align to her going punk. All the stuff you mentioned I loved as wellm It must have been a really good time during that period to be a storm fam. like the issues with her in them then were soooooo freaking good and well written.

and no you are not asking too many questions. in regards to life and death, I dont know how I really felt about it. I'm glad i read it but before reading this i always thought this was to her ultimate love story that explained why forge was her greatest love. However when I read it, it was the complete opposite. It felt rushed and I hated how three herself to a man who verbally abused her in the manner in which he did. For those who argued against her and Tchalla, I was completely surprised and taken aback. I dont see how anyone would be in favor of such a relationship based upon that story. Now maybe I missed it but I dont recall the Maker, who was that and what issue number did that occur?

I cant wait to read xtreme. Several storm fans have recommended that story and I know it will be a good read based upon the frequent recommendations to read it. This conversation was a welcome surprise and I really enjoyed this exchange. What would you like to see moving forward with the character considering where she is currently with her development and her place with the xmen and beyond to the broader MU?

I had to shorten your response but I think I addressed all your points!!

[Rosa Snarks]

Wooo chile .. idk if the bitter jumped out or what

[butterflykyss]

Wooo chile .. idk if the bitter jumped out or what

cookie boo what you talking about?

[Slicknickshady]

Shipp is amazing. She deserves to be Storm as long as she wants. I love how she owns the haters online who think she isn’t dark enough to be Storm or good enough. I’ve supported her for years and I won’t stop!

Rooting for Comcast because she’ll more likely keep the role in that case.

[butterflykyss]

Well this is one of the consequences of using SOMEONE ELSE'S book to build up a character. IF Coates wanted a Storm book he should have did it instead of BP WOW & BP Crew.

Or do what was done with Duke in Batman-do backups in Panther's book. Then take all those pages and put them in a trade with a new story. Thus you have your Storm trade and maybe it would have seen the trade numbers Iceman and Nadia got.

It's easier to make your case for a Storm solo (be it under Coates or Gay or Pak) when its her name on the trade versus someone else's name who just had a billion dollar movie.

at the time bp&c was written there wasnt much of any indication coates could write an ororo. many are still on the fence about him but it wasnt until about issue 15 of 16 that coates mentioned he was doing her book. so I dont think that would have been a viable option because there wasnt the craving that there is now for him to write her book. me personally I dont want any other writer, as I want to see a black writer have that chance to do that.

[Celestial]

Shipp is amazing. She deserves to be Storm as long as she wants. I love how she owns the haters online who think she isn’t dark enough to be Storm or good enough. I’ve supported her for years and I won’t stop!

Rooting for Comcast because she’ll more likely keep the role in that case.

Hilarious.

10 char

[Tycon]

Shipp is amazing. She deserves to be Storm as long as she wants. I love how she owns the haters online who think she isn’t dark enough to be Storm or good enough. I’ve supported her for years and I won’t stop!

Rooting for Comcast because she’ll more likely keep the role in that case.

.......................anyways,,,,Dewanda Wise for Storm <3 <3 <3

[butterflykyss]

.......................anyways,,,,Dewanda Wise for Storm <3 <3 <3

shes gorgeous and face wise would be perfect. sucks set is so short.