'Superman & Lois' in development at the CW

[Superlad93]

Maybe they were actually legit and someone got hit with a cease and desist or got cold feet. Although the lack of any kind of water mark made me question it's legitimacy a little bit.

Damn, you're right. It could go either way now.

Like I kinda don't really buy Lois agreeing to move back to the farm that quickly, but they at least hinted at there having been some discussion and it being a mutual decision. They have been together here for probably in the area of 15 years.

This was where I raised the eyebrow. I think the discussion is tabled for now because there's no talk of moving or the boys going to a new school.

I will still be a little disappointed if her and Clark don't work together in that capacity, but as long as they do have a more balanced focus on her.

I agree.

Heh. "Welcome to Smallville!" Jordan seems to be the Ryan here to Jon's Seth.

Oh god lol lets hope it evens out!

[Frontier]

Is the Fortress addressed in the pilot? I'm kind of curious how much it might appear.

[Superlad93]

Nah, there's a little too much going on, and too many dynamics being established to get too it.

[superduperman]

Welp, CBR seems to think it's legit:

https://www.cbr.com/superman-lois-ki...ha-kent-pilot/

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Found the script too and I gotta say: this is the real deal, folks. Not that I haven't been right along, but I'm psyched for this. This feels like the full-spectrum "Superman and Lois are gonna deal with contemporary issues, and get substantial and fitting character development, and also fight cool big-scale big-idea threats" treatment I want. It gets even heavier than I'd heard, but it handles that material and its shockingly clear lefty politics waaaayyyyy better than I would have expected for an Arrowverse show, given the weird bothsides-ism I know Arrow and to a lesser extent Supergirl have gone for - I wonder how much of this will actually make it to air - and that material doesn't tonally step on the toes of the big Superman Doing Superman Stuff bits, which pop. It seems to be committing to the idea of dealing with non-allegorical 'real world' stuff while still permitting Superman to be fully, unapologetically Superman in a way that means I'm willing to give a chance to some plot elements in here I'd otherwise be inclined to find suspect at best on the assumption that they won't take the easy, dumb way out, and the expected Big Bad Guy With A Secretive Big Bad Guy Plan material is WILD for the opening shot of their most mainstream-appealing show in terms of how high-concept it gets.

Not that it's flawless, though even its issues are understandable - it's got that clunky CW dialogue in places, but that's the sort of thing that's always lived and died by the strength of the actors in these; Superman and Lois themselves at least are already trustworthy in that regard, so I'm not too concerned. And Lois and Jonathan are on the backburner here, but we still get a good sense of their personalities (surprised in particular how much I'd say Jonathan sounds recognizably Jonathan in here, personally) and the events of the pilot play out in such a way that naturally place Clark and Jordan in the forefront, rather than suggesting that's going to be the status quo throughout the series. I suppose its least defensible flub is it mentions Crisis in a central way without too much context, which is concerning given this'll reach a larger audience than the other shows who won't know or care about that; there's just *enough* context that folks'll probably do a wiki search, go 'oh', and be fine with it, but a little elaboration would be appreciated for the newcomers.

Don't know that this'll change the minds of those really committed to the idea that Hoechlin's Superman is a wimp - there's stuff in here they'll be able to point to and go "see, see?! They haven't learned their lesson!" - but I think anyone going into this with any sort of open mind even if they've been disappointed by his treatment in the past are going to be really satisfied. There's some bits that directed and played right are gonna hit hard, and all-in-all this feels poised to offer what Rebirth promised out of Superman-as-dad in terms of character development but for my money never delivered more than superficially.

spoilers:

More importantly, SUPERMAN REVEALS HIMSELF TO THE WORLD BY DOING THE ACTION COMICS #1 COVER BUT BECAUSE THAT KIND OF CAR ISN'T A THING ANYMORE, IT'S A VOLKSWAGEN BEETLE, THE KIND OF CAR MY MOM DROVE WHEN I WAS A KID.

end of spoilers

[GSman]

Welp, CBR seems to think it's legit:

https://www.cbr.com/superman-lois-ki...ha-kent-pilot/

We'll have to wait and see. No one knows if it's legit. Not even CBR.

[Yoda]

This was where I raised the eyebrow. I think the discussion is tabled for now because there's no talk of moving or the boys going to a new school!

That is what I caught as well. While it is obviously a foregone conclusion that they are going to do it, there was apparently a (ongoing) discussion. So while I would have liked to see a little more tension with the decision, they did at least pepper the script with some little things that soften some of the complaints I'd have and hint at it a bit. Lois is an army brat, so she'd conceivably be somewhat comfortable with the idea that they'd move around more. I even kind of get Clark's hesitancy with telling the kids the truth. There's some tension particularly with Jordan that as a parent I can see not wanting to add another layer of uncertainty to his life if he's already struggling. So it's defensible to me and the tension between Clark and Jordan also works for me personally.

Similar thoughts with the Lana stuff. While I'm probably being naive, the way they set it up leaves room for it not to go the route of love triangle nonsense. The husband isn't set as a complete POS so that it'd be a foregone conclusion that Lana would need "rescuing" from him. They've even set him up somewhat sympathetically with the daughter's comments that he's seen a lot of horrible things in Smallville. And while he's sympathetic to Edge and the billionare stuff has him coded as your stereotypical small town conservative that doesn't like the big city folk, they don't make him completely irredeemable yet. There isn't an indication that he's abusive or anything like that (again yet) that would really code it worringly to me. And they seem to even set Lois & Lana up to work together on the bank and Edge stuff. And with Lana not knowing Clark's secret she loses a ton of the usual tension with Lois.

spoilers:

Just the fact that the main villain is an AU Luthor makes me wonder if they're going in that direction because they can't, for some reason, use Cryer so they need a new Luthor on-the-spot. I mean, they might be trying to play more with Crisis but I don't really see the sense in Superman fighting a Luthor he has no history or relationship against. Especially when Hoechlin has yet to really play off Cryer at all.

end of spoilers

Though the disguise kind of isn't necessary if they were going to cast someone else. It's possible however they wrap things up on Supergirl this season and will free him up for this. We also don't know if this is going to be a full 22 episode show or if they are going to go the abbreviated 13 or so that Black Lightening and Legends gets. That could factor into it as well. They have used villains in multiple shows before in the CW verse, though not really at the same time.

I'm actually kind of hoping for 10-13 vs 22. Black Lightening and Legends are my favorite Arrowverse shows and I think their storytelling is a lot better because they don't have to pad out their seasons.

A part of me wondered whether the Earths merging did some wish granting for the Paragons...Lex got to restore his reputation and standing, Kara had Lena forget she hated her (briefly), and Kate got her sister back...but none of the other Paragons seemed to get anything, so that was probably not the case.

Quentin Lance did come back, but I think that was set up as something Oliver did. Not necessarily Sarah herself. I could see Lex as the "Paragon of Truth" muddling his own "truth" when they Care Bear Stared the universe back into existence. He'd likely be the only one of them that would be selfish enough to do that. The rest of could just have been Oliver doing his best to help his friends. As the Specter he'd have some kind of omniscience and could have nudged things for them all a little based on their subconsciousness.

I think I'd prefer if it was just a quirk of the merger and the time shift and no one is directly responsible for it.

[stargazer01]

So is Jon Cryer playing Lex in this or not sure yet?

Isn't the CW Superman also in the same universe as Supergirl? I'm confused. I loved Cryer so it'd be great if it was him.

And about the show as a whole.. I'll give it a chance because I love the character that much, but I'm not expecting to love it, especially if Clark doesn't get the respect he needs and deserves.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

I think the way the deaths of the Kents was handled here is great. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the 1950s George Reeves show got it right. Jonathan dying of a heart attack and Clark being helpless to save him is the best way to go about it. It’s Superman being forced to confront not being able to save everybody. Its one of those less is more things. Adding suicide by tornado or a cosmic car crash or poisonous buried treasure has never worked.
Likewise I never cared one way or another if Martha was alive. There isn’t much to do with her after Clark comes of age. But her being dead doesn’t really add anything either assuming Jonathan has already died the way he is supposed to die. But here it looks like her death is actually going to serve as the cataylist for this show. And while I am not sold on farmer Clark, it’s clear losing his mom is going to be a major part of his character development going forward.

[Sacred Knight]

I think a car crash works fine enough too, if the aim is to have the two parents pass at the same time. Just without the cosmic manipulation to it. Minus that though, car accidents, like medical emergencies, is the same type of thing where Clark learns the lesson that life can sometimes work too fast and too unpredictably even for him.

[stargazer01]

I think the best way to kill Pa Kent is by heart attack or something else while teen Clark or Superman is too busy to notice or unable to arrive on time. It teaches him a hard lesson that he can't save everybody all the time. I just love that plot point because it serves a purpose for Clark's development as a hero and person.

When Lois dies in Superman the Movie and he turns everything back just for her, it shows a very selfish side of him I don't like. He only does it for her not for others who probably died too. It's Pandora's box. It's also too much power he shouldn't have because it's cheating and just silly. Even Superman should have some limits. That and the sometimes campy villains are the only things I cringe at with that movie. The rest is awesome I think.

[misslane]

I think the way the deaths of the Kents was handled here is great. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the 1950s George Reeves show got it right. Jonathan dying of a heart attack and Clark being helpless to save him is the best way to go about it. It’s Superman being forced to confront not being able to save everybody. Its one of those less is more things. Adding suicide by tornado or a cosmic car crash or poisonous buried treasure has never worked.
Likewise I never cared one way or another if Martha was alive. There isn’t much to do with her after Clark comes of age. But her being dead doesn’t really add anything either assuming Jonathan has already died the way he is supposed to die. But here it looks like her death is actually going to serve as the cataylist for this show. And while I am not sold on farmer Clark, it’s clear losing his mom is going to be a major part of his character development going forward.

Jonathan doesn't need to die for Clark to realize that. Any natural death, including even of beloved pets, would make him get that message. The tornado thing teaches a similar, if not more valuable lesson, which is that Superman's choices are never just ones that affect him; they can affect everyone. Jonathan wants Clark to stay hidden, and dies to protect him, because it would impact more than just their family or their community, but the WHOLE WORLD if superpowered aliens were discovered.

[Frontier]

spoilers:

If Lex is an AU Lex that hopped over from Crisis, I wonder if they'll introduce Bizarro as an alternate version of Superman from his own dimension who ended up on the Post-Crisis Earth and working for this Lex. Maybe parallel Bizarro losing his own Bizarro family on Bizarroworld with Clark's fears as a parent. I'm also wondering...maybe this Lex styles himself after Mr. Oz, so will he have his own Doomsday at his beck and call?

end of spoilers

Though the disguise kind of isn't necessary if they were going to cast someone else. It's possible however they wrap things up on Supergirl this season and will free him up for this. We also don't know if this is going to be a full 22 episode show or if they are going to go the abbreviated 13 or so that Black Lightening and Legends gets. That could factor into it as well. They have used villains in multiple shows before in the CW verse, though not really at the same time.

I'm actually kind of hoping for 10-13 vs 22. Black Lightening and Legends are my favorite Arrowverse shows and I think their storytelling is a lot better because they don't have to pad out their seasons.

I can see the appeal of a limited episode count but I think they'll probably give this show the Batwoman treatment, with an initial episode count that gets bumped up to a full season order, since it's likely to be treated as a new tentpole core Arrowverse show.

I think a car crash works fine enough too, if the aim is to have the two parents pass at the same time. Just without the cosmic manipulation to it. Minus that though, car accidents, like medical emergencies, is the same type of thing where Clark learns the lesson that life can sometimes work too fast and too unpredictably even for him.

A car crash is a little too graphic way for the Kents to go out in my opinion.

[manwhohaseverything]

I got a different question, why do deaths need some grand lessons? Two people died. That's just it.clark didn't learn anything from it, no grand lessons. No nothing.just mourning and loneliness which spurs him into action, like in the original comics. I like it simple and without drama.

[stargazer01]

I got a different question, why do deaths need some grand lessons? Two people died. That's just it.clark didn't learn anything from it, no grand lessons. No nothing.just mourning and loneliness which spurs him into action, like in the original comics. I like it simple and without drama.

For someone as powerful and invulnerable as Clark, seeing someone very close die should show him how fragile humans really are and how not even him can save everyone. I mean, you don't have to see the big deal, but I do.