Hal Jordan: The Green Lantern Appreciation 2022

[Johnny]

Happy Father's Day.

[SJNeal]

Exhibit B...

Happy Father's Day.

Hal's reaction looks a lot like what mine would be if my dad offered to be my wingman...

[Johnny]

[Refrax5]

I wasn't thinking that you were. I was trying to say that my consideration for the good people in the military who do serve honorably tempered my reaction to the jingoism in Johns's work.

As for the rest, I don't know where you saw Hal's constant mistreatment of women,(my impression was that he has an active dating life, but it never works out) but I either don't remember or saw it differently. (the scene Johnny posted above, as cringey as it is, showed a mutually casual attitude - nobody was mistreated there) I'm sure a bunch of it also doesn't hold up considering how long ago that all was. I can't argue with your impression since from what I recall, there's probably enough on the page to justify that take. I think I just see Hal as someone who can be misunderstood as a "douchebag toxic male" until you get to know him and see the humanity and heroism underneath, so if a writer doesn't handle him well in that regard, I tend to blame the writer and not let it affect my love of the character, (Venditti's handling of Hal's reaction to Kyle dating Carol was one of the things that made me drop the book, it was so bad) but ymmv. I'm just offering my experience as part of the discussion, not to debate or contradict.

Well, I gave examples of how Hal once had things in his dating life not work out, but those were retconned away for him saying he would rather kill himself than settle down with Carol and leaving her (because Johns' version of Hal cannot possibly get dumped for another guy), how often he was shown to have hurt Carol, how he left Deb crying, etc etc etc. He just became such an arrogant, womanizing jock type. Johns had some nice moments with the character, but Hal using lethal force, defending inhumane treatment of military prisoners, treating women the way he did, quoting John McCain, the authoritarian "big brother" comment, him beating the hell out of criminals in custody, etc. I'm astounded people DON'T see it.

But beyond that, it's just such heavy handed, cheesy writing. "Kick their butts, Uncle Hal!" And so on. The characterisation is so one note in all of his stuff. The Shazam kids all have one single personality trait (oh and the Asian kid's is computers and video games, just great) that defines them and that's it.

[Mutatis_Mutandis]

When did that come up?

It's the first issue of the story where he and Ollie get trapped by Black Mercy.

[Frontier]

Hal has a complicated relationship with his family.

Well, I gave examples of how Hal once had things in his dating life not work out, but those were retconned away for him saying he would rather kill himself than settle down with Carol and leaving her (because Johns' version of Hal cannot possibly get dumped for another guy), how often he was shown to have hurt Carol, how he left Deb crying, etc etc etc. He just became such an arrogant, womanizing jock type. Johns had some nice moments with the character, but Hal using lethal force, defending inhumane treatment of military prisoners, treating women the way he did, quoting John McCain, the authoritarian "big brother" comment, him beating the hell out of criminals in custody, etc. I'm astounded people DON'T see it.

That was not my impression at all. Like I honestly don't think he ever came off that bad against women even if he had his own relationship failings (which were treated as failings) that screwed him and Carol up, and the lethal force scene you're talking about was often cited as being OOC and out of sorts with how Hal was usually portrayed in the rest of the run.

He was cocky but I don't think he came off as arrogant outside the New 52 run where everyone except maybe Barry and Cyborg came off like jerks.

But beyond that, it's just such heavy handed, cheesy writing. "Kick their butts, Uncle Hal!" And so on. The characterisation is so one note in all of his stuff. The Shazam kids all have one single personality trait (oh and the Asian kid's is computers and video games, just great) that defines them and that's it.

That was one of the best parts of the Sinestro Corps. War! If that's the scene I'm thinking of.

I think the Shazam kids came off as one-dimensional because Johns only got so much page-space and focused mostly on Billy, Freddy, Adam, and Sivana. I haven't read any of his Shazam follow-up though.

I mean, I didn't think we needed a whole team of Shazams or making Mary suddenly older and not Billy's biological sister...but that's a completely separate topic.

It's the first issue of the story where he and Ollie get trapped by Black Mercy.

I might need to re-read that one then....

[Anthony Shaw]

Happy Father's Day.

Another example of Maury not being needed to determine paternity.

[silly]

Happy Father's Day!

[silly]

You know I’m surprised that out of all the dc universe characters Hal has managed to avoid the “surprise kid out of nowhere that becomes a new hero” trope.

I like those characters, but let’s face it people like Damian Wayne, Connor Hawke, and Jade & Obsidian showed up practically grown to be heroes in their first appearances. And with all the talk of legacy and next generation surprised there is no Hal jr. out there somewhere. Not even really in Elseworld’s when you think about it.

Edit: I’m not saying Hal should have a kid, I’m saying given past events and his dating history it’s surprising is all.

I would be okay to see Hal have a legacy.

[sifighter]

I would be okay to see Hal have a legacy.

Could you just imagine how powerful Hal’s kid would be though. The son or daughter of a guy who has been reality warping parallax, the Spectre, living willpower, and who knows how many multiverse and god energies. Hal’s theoretical kid could give Jon Kent a run for his money in the Powerhouse department.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

"The only ones worried about big brother watching, Ollie, are the ones who are doing something wrong." #7

Hal was referring to himself being monitored by the Guardians and that he had no problem with that, not everyone else. Thinking that cops, even space cops, should have their activities monitored while on duty is hardly a right wing idea. It's the opposite.

While I agree that Johns's Hal leaned more conservative than he'd been portrayed since O'Neil, this wasn't an example of it.

[sifighter]

So uh…has Hal’s ring ever done that fusion thing before? If you don’t know what I’m talking about look at todays issue of Superman/Batman by mark waid

[Frontier]

So uh…has Hal’s ring ever done that fusion thing before? If you don’t know what I’m talking about look at todays issue of Superman/Batman by mark waid

I feel like something like this has happened before...

[Zagre]

So uh…has Hal’s ring ever done that fusion thing before? If you don’t know what I’m talking about look at todays issue of Superman/Batman by mark waid

Batman mentions it may be due to the ambient magic around them (combined with the fact that their willpowers were synchronized). It's presented as a one-in-a-million coincidence.

[Johnny]

Kind of felt like Waid was going to the Geoff Johns school of "how to steal a GL's ring again" but at least he made sure to point out that Hal's willpower was compromised due to his possession so if he was in control they would hardly be able to pull that off.

Now how were they able to actually use his ring is a different story since the rings are supposed to choose their wielder and not everyone should just take it and start using it like that, but I guess I'll let that slide. And I guess I'm starting to see what people mean about Mora's "sexy art". lol