Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Veni]

I assumed you were talking about the clay origin when you said this:



If you meant the Zeus origin, I'm even more unsure why you think DC will revert back to the clay origin after the third movie.

Well around 2016, DC along with Scholastic published illustrated books about DC's most famous characters. One of them was about Wonder Woman titled Wonder Woman: Amazon Warrior. It used the clay origin, but she wore her New 52 costume. This was around the time of Rebirth and it indicates that DC intended to return her clay origin in the mainstream comics until last-minute changes. They will certainly return her clay origin in the future especially after she was portrayed as a "rapist'' in WW84.

[marhawkman]

A bio is a very insignificant part of a game. I haven't seen that clip from DC Superhero Girls where they state it, but it also seems immaterial compared to the two live action movies. I definitely don't think DC is keeping the Zeus origin because of animated shows and a bio in Injustice.

I don't understand how that contradicts what I wrote

I'm pretty sure the only adaptations that actually discuss WW's birth and use the clay origin... are JL, the old Superfriends and the live action series from way back.

[Alpha]

And the 2009 movie

[I'm a Fish]

I'm pretty sure the only adaptations that actually discuss WW's birth and use the clay origin... are JL, the old Superfriends and the live action series from way back.

The 2017 film does as well, it was even in the trailers.

Also, the films never go into detail about her birth, they call Zeus her father but never dismiss that she could have been also made of clay.

So the Clay origin is just as well known as the Zeus origin due to the live action films.

[John Venus]

I really hope we do get a proper adaptation of WW be it live action movie, tv show or cartoon.

The comments and reactions to the movies has been along the lines of:

"She left her island for a man!"

"I wish we could have seen more of the Amazons."

"Aren't her mother and sisters important to her? Why don't we see their impact on her?"

"But Zeus was a rapist in mythology. This makes no sense!" (This was made by someone who didn't read comics and only saw the movies so I had to explain to her how the movies butchered the Goddesses role in the WW's story.)

[Agent Z]

I really hope we do get a proper adaptation of WW be it live action movie, tv show or cartoon.

The comments and reactions to the movies has been along the lines of:

"She left her island for a man!"

"I wish we could have seen more of the Amazons."

"Aren't her mother and sisters important to her? Why don't we see their impact on her?"

"But Zeus was a rapist in mythology. This makes no sense!" (This was made by someone who didn't read comics and only saw the movies so I had to explain to her how the movies butchered the Goddesses role in the WW's story.)

The first one is technically true of the comics as well, the second one is understandable but not really feasible for an origin movie, the third one ignores that we did see their impact and importance to Diana and the fourth one ignores that movies take liberties with the myths all the time. Sometimes the Amazons were written as women who hated men so much they murdered infant boys.

Also, these comments do not reflect the majority of reactions. This movie wasn't perfect but no movie and got more right than it got wrong. Yes, I would have preferred the clay origin but they handled it the best they could and it probably wasn't even their idea.

[Psy-lock]

I'm sure we'll get the clay origin and more focus on the Amazons once they reboot the movies.

[John Venus]

The first one is technically true of the comics as well, the second one is understandable but not really feasible for an origin movie, the third one ignores that we did see their impact and importance to Diana and the fourth one ignores that movies take liberties with the myths all the time. Sometimes the Amazons were written as women who hated men so much they murdered infant boys.

Also, these comments do not reflect the majority of reactions. This movie wasn't perfect but no movie and got more right than it got wrong. Yes, I would have preferred the clay origin but they handled it the best they could and it probably wasn't even their idea.

I can only speak to the reactions that I have seen. Even though the reactions I've posted don't reflect the 'majority', they are still valid nonetheless. Based on the WW comics, the movies could have been A LOT better. Most people only know WW by her reputation not by the actual content of her comics.

The Amazons weren't codified as 'men hating baby killers' until the 2011 reboot. For their 70+ years they were a more compassionate culture with a unique history.

The movies seem to think the core of WW's story is Diana and Steve Trevor just like Clark and Lois Lane. In reality, the core of WW's story is Diana and Hippolyta. It is a rare matriarchal narrative.

Overall, I think Thor, Black Panther and Shang Chi have done a better job of bringing to life their character's respective worlds and culture.

[Shimbo]

I can only speak to the reactions that I have seen. Even though the reactions I've posted don't reflect the 'majority', they are still valid nonetheless. Based on the WW comics, the movies could have been A LOT better. Most people only know WW by her reputation not by the actual content of her comics.

The Amazons weren't codified as 'men hating baby killers' until the 2011 reboot. For their 70+ years they were a more compassionate culture with a unique history.

The movies seem to think the core of WW's story is Diana and Steve Trevor just like Clark and Lois Lane. In reality, the core of WW's story is Diana and Hippolyta. It is a rare matriarchal narrative.

Overall, I think Thor, Black Panther and Shang Chi have done a better job of bringing to life their character's respective worlds and culture.

Quoted for truth and I think I generally agree with your last sentence, too.

Maybe the 3rd can take us back to the island and with better writing center the narrative around Diana and her mother. Connie Nielsen is a joy and she should be used way more.

[Guy_McNichts]

I really hope we do get a proper adaptation of WW be it live action movie, tv show or cartoon.

The comments and reactions to the movies has been along the lines of:

"She left her island for a man!"

"I wish we could have seen more of the Amazons."

"Aren't her mother and sisters important to her? Why don't we see their impact on her?"

Well, an issue there is one of the key components of Wonder Woman's story is that she leaves the island. She leaves her home and sisters.

Yeah, the Amazons were cool and it would've been nice if we got to see more of them and Diana's relationship with them, but you can't have really have a Wonder Woman origin story without her leaving Themyscira behind at some point. It's the safe, easy paradise she gave up to be a hero.
I would argue the core of Diana's story is how she brings positive change to the world and those around her. Kind of hard to do that if she's occupied with Themyscira.

And people who say she left for a man are just flat out wrong. Steve's arrival heralds the start of her journey, but she left the island to save the world. She pretty much states that word for word.

[PopQuezy]

I really hope we do get a proper adaptation of WW be it live action movie, tv show or cartoon.

The comments and reactions to the movies has been along the lines of:

"She left her island for a man!"

"I wish we could have seen more of the Amazons."

"Aren't her mother and sisters important to her? Why don't we see their impact on her?"

"But Zeus was a rapist in mythology. This makes no sense!" (This was made by someone who didn't read comics and only saw the movies so I had to explain to her how the movies butchered the Goddesses role in the WW's story.)

1. But she didn't leave her island for a man. Diana makes it quite clear that she's leaving to stop Ares and bring peace to earth and make man good again. "Who would I be if I stay?" Is not in response to wanting to be with Trevor.

2.No comment. Hopefully the fabled Amazons film is real.

3. She is literally wearing the headpiece of Antiope when she finally makes her decision to become Wonder Woman. When she stands up to the men in London, she refers to her Aunt Antiope who fought next to the soldiers, and how they are cowards for sending men to slaughter with little regard. Hippolyta literally shares the theme of WW84 with a young Diana that an adult Diana must learn to save the world and to finally accept her place in this new world. When she faces Luddendorf, she calls herself the daughter of Hippolyta, Queen of the Amazons. Also, in WW84, she specifically searches for Linda Carter's character's (I forgot her name. Astra or something) Golden Eagle Armor and wears it in the final battle. To say that Hippolyta and Antiope, specifically, or that the Amazons, in general, aren't important to the movie Diana is literally ignoring sometimes pertinent plot, character, and motivation narratives.

4. I feel no way regarding the last one. Zeus and Ares were obviously supposed to be God/Satan analogs. Plus even the Greeks took liberties with the myths, so I have no problem with the movie doing the same.

[Stanlos]

Quoted for truth and I think I generally agree with your last sentence, too.

Maybe the 3rd can take us back to the island and with better writing center the narrative around Diana and her mother. Connie Nielsen is a joy and she should be used way more.

That Thor, Black Panther, and Shang Chi have done better with their characters is pretty cut and dry. With DCs Wonder Woman, they were hamstrung from the jump with the ANTI WW vibe DiDio and Johns presented. There's a problem when both TV efforts did better by the character than the film did. Sooooooooooooo many liberties were taken in both movies and her catalogue was pretty much gutted or ignored by the not well considered choices. Instead of the mythical fantastical origin we get "oh she's another of Zeus children". Instead of the powerful Amazons who laugh at mortal weapons and instruments of war and play Bullets and Bracelets as a game we get Amazons who are on the struggle bus dealing with WWI weapons. I could go on ad nauseum but the bottom line is Marvel embraced their properties whereas both DC and WB reject what makes their properties unique and awesome preferring instead to make them generic.

[Gaius]

That Thor, Black Panther, and Shang Chi have done better with their characters is pretty cut and dry. With DCs Wonder Woman, they were hamstrung from the jump with the ANTI WW vibe DiDio and Johns presented. There's a problem when both TV efforts did better by the character than the film did. Sooooooooooooo many liberties were taken in both movies and her catalogue was pretty much gutted or ignored by the not well considered choices. Instead of the mythical fantastical origin we get "oh she's another of Zeus children". Instead of the powerful Amazons who laugh at mortal weapons and instruments of war and play Bullets and Bracelets as a game we get Amazons who are on the struggle bus dealing with WWI weapons. I could go on ad nauseum but the bottom line is Marvel embraced their properties whereas both DC and WB reject what makes their properties unique and awesome preferring instead to make them generic.

We are talking about the same scene where the same said Germans with their modern weaponry were all cut down to man?

What where there liberties anymore particular egregious than the adaptations of other properties like Batman or Superman? Yeah, they selected stuff from across WW publication history along with their creative choices. This happens in adaptions of multi-decade properties.

[SiegePerilous02]

Getting important roles for mothers and female mentors in live action comic book movies is still pretty rare, so I think how the first film in particular handled them is still huge. It got a lot of positive responses from the majority of audiences.

She did not leave for Steve. Marston's Diana did but not Jenkins. She very clearly leaves to stop Ares and from a desire to see the world. I don't get people missing that at all. It's one of the best compromises to still include Steve without her doing it only for love for him. Year One did this well too

The Zeus origin sucks, but having it vs. no Wonder Woman movie at all is an easy choice.

[I'm a Fish]

Diana was literally more interested in Steve’s watch than his wiener.

The movie opens with a 5 year old Diana talking about how badly she wants to help people, has her begging her mother and the Amazon’s to leave the Island after she hears about WWI from Steve, and the second she sets foot in London she’s constantly talking about wanting to get to the front lines to help people (cue No Mans Land). She even comments that men are necessary for procreation but not sexual pleasure.

Honestly, to me it sounds like the people who think she left the island for a man in the first movie are the kind of people who will think that as long as Steve is in her origin, period.