Spider-Man 54 Discussion

[PCN24454]

How can anyone fault Peter for the choice he made? May means more to Peter than anything, there isn't anything he wouldn't do for her. The guy would go above and beyond to help/save a stranger, you think he would do any less for May? How is he selfish or a coward for giving up his happiness to save his beloved aunt, if anything that's the definition of selflessness. Besides knowing Peter's morality and his selfless nature do you think he would be happy knowing that he could have prevented Aunt May's death? It would probably eat away at him with feelings of regret, remorse and guilt; maybe even anger. And quite possibly consciously or subconsciously he might even resent MJ for choosing their future over May's life. Everything we know about Peter would point to him making this decision, the guy will go to extremes to save a life, no matter what. And if that means giving up his happiness with MJ, he would do it. Honestly it seems he gets hate for his choice because he took away MJ's happiness, her happy future. Some want to usher May into her grave so MJ can have her happy ending. How happy would she be if Peter was racked with guilt for his choice, or would he not care because only MJ matters.

This is mostly the reason why I don't blame Peter for either decision. If May and MJ's roles were reversed, I could see a million people telling him to take the deal.

[t-spider]

It is a safe bet Peter is losing. It is also more likely that the Jets are winning the Super Bowl before OMD is replaced. In other words: If it happens during or ( especially)before Amazing 1000 I would be shocked.

I don't think he'll defeat Kindred... this time. However, I expect there will be a rematch down the road.

[Vortex85]

This is mostly the reason why I don't blame Peter for either decision. If May and MJ's roles were reversed, I could see a million people telling him to take the deal.

EWWW... save MJ's life for trading his marriage with his Aunt doesn't sit well with me..

[Celgress]

How can anyone fault Peter for the choice he made? May means more to Peter than anything, there isn't anything he wouldn't do for her. The guy would go above and beyond to help/save a stranger, you think he would do any less for May? How is he selfish or a coward for giving up his happiness to save his beloved aunt, if anything that's the definition of selflessness. Besides knowing Peter's morality and his selfless nature do you think he would be happy knowing that he could have prevented Aunt May's death? It would probably eat away at him with feelings of regret, remorse and guilt; maybe even anger. And quite possibly consciously or subconsciously he might even resent MJ for choosing their future over May's life. Everything we know about Peter would point to him making this decision, the guy will go to extremes to save a life, no matter what. And if that means giving up his happiness with MJ, he would do it. Honestly it seems he gets hate for his choice because he took away MJ's happiness, her happy future. Some want to usher May into her grave so MJ can have her happy ending. How happy would she be if Peter was racked with guilt for his choice, or would he not care because only MJ matters.

Because he gave up the happiness of another and allowed a demonic entity to alter reality which affected countless other lives who knows how exactly (it seems Kindred is one such result). Heck, May told him she was at peace and even God (the One Above All) confirmed it was May's time yet Peter still did what he did. Peter did not act like a selfless hero that day but rather a selfish villain, a coward. How much clearer do people have to be in this thread before you understand our objections have little to do with who he "saved" but rather how and why he "saved" her?

Edit - But your strawman (you actually used two) made me -

"A straw man (sometimes written as strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the proper idea of argument under discussion was not addressed or properly refuted. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man"."

Doube Edit - Dude, don't pick this hill to die on. People (far smarter than I) have literally written essays refuting Peter's actions during OMD as being both OOC and morally wrong (on every level). You can't and won't win this one. I'd walk away.

[Celgress]

EWWW... save MJ's life for trading his marriage with his Aunt doesn't sit well with me..

You brought a smile to my face with that one.

[PCN24454]

Because he gave up the happiness of another and allowed a demonic entity to alter reality which affected countless other lives who knows how exactly (it seems Kindred is one such result). Heck, May told him she was at peace and even God (the One Above All) confirmed it was May's time yet Peter still did what he did. Peter did not act like a selfless hero that day but rather a selfish villain, a coward. How much clearer do people have to be in this thread before you understand our objections have little to do with who he "saved" but rather how and why he "saved" her?

Isn't your strawman that we "knew" that things would go wrong? Nothing even went wrong as a result of the deal explicitly until Queenpin arc.

[Celgress]

Isn't your strawman that we "knew" that things would go wrong? Nothing even went wrong as a result of the deal explicitly until Queenpin arc.

Peter should have known not that we should have known. Heck, it is Mephisto he is making a selfish deal with need I say more. But that isn't my argument my argument is that Peter acted selfishly by not accepting the consequences of his actions thus making a deal with a dangerous evil entity, but nice try.

Edit - Selfish and beyond reckless, I can't forget that. What an honorable guy Peter was that day we should all be like him. Who says deals with the Devil are a bad thing? If you make the deal for the "right reasons" who cares what the motives are of the Devil or the effects it'll have on others and the world, right?

PS Sorry everyone else, but this OMD love is moronic and needed to be answered. I will not bother commenting on OMD again because this thread has been derailed enough.

[Lukmendes]

Anyway, the point is, technically Harry is doing this all wrong because Peter actually didn't make the pact... MJ did!! Peter was completely decided to not accept Mephisto's deal, even if Aunt May died. However, the only reason he ended up accepting was because MJ convinced him. So, if Harry wants Peter to "confess", he's actually wasting time, because it is MJ who really remembers the deal. Don't you think?

Back in OMD, both MJ and Peter somehow managed to convince each other to make the deal even though they both didn't want to do it (Peter convinced her first when she didn't want it, then MJ convinced him once he was changing his mind, and the deal needed both to agree) , so MJ is at fault as well as Peter, not just one or the other.

If the sin Harry is talking about is OMD ('cause I still expect it to be bait), then Harry is showing a rather clear bias by only putting the blame on Peter, which is not surprising, guy's blaming Peter for even DeWolfe's death lol.

[fin5]

Well it does have a vibe for OMD and BND. In 53 Peter was asleep and has a dream about BND .Kindred killed the other peter and brought him back again and again so i think that peter was the real one was the BND and Harry was born new and the past BND harry went to hell and blames peter.for it.In the Dream when peter came down.Harry changed his dialoge and the people there has glowing eyes.So sometime is up

[Spidey_62]

I really am not sure how this is all gonna wrap up in one issue (no .LR issues left even), because there's so much that's still unanswered throughout this whole thing. The only new real information we've gotten out of this big story so far is that it's Harry and more pointing to OMD.

[Lukmendes]

I really am not sure how this is all gonna wrap up in one issue (no .LR issues left even), because there's so much that's still unanswered throughout this whole thing. The only new real information we've gotten out of this big story so far is that it's Harry and more pointing to OMD.

I really doubt anything will be solved here, it sounds like LR's gimmick is that Peter will learn of some sin he commited, and the stories after that will be him dealing with it, I doubt Kindred will even be defeated here.

[The Twilight Mexican]

I really doubt anything will be solved here, it sounds like LR's gimmick is that Peter will learn of some sin he commited, and the stories after that will be him dealing with it, I doubt Kindred will even be defeated here.

Kindred may not even need to be defeated if his purpose is just to get Pete to acknowledge the deal with Mephisto and its ramifications. And even as someone who hates OMD, I'm okay with that. I don't expect -- or even necessarily want -- a magical solution that undoes the deal. That would potentially be just as much a transgression (i.e. a sin) as allowing Mephisto to tamper with reality the first time.

What I've stayed sore over all these years is that even the fact the deal was made had gone unacknowledged by Spidey. I want to see him realize and admit he screwed up, and then I want to watch as he tries to be and do better. Any thematic notions of responsibility currently ring hollow otherwise.

And honestly, there's plenty more story potential in Peter and MJ wrestling with what they did and/or figuring out how they feel about their relationship with one another in newly full knowledge of what they have been together and who they've become (separately and together) since.

[Kingkalamari]

To me the biggest character of this arc has been Sin-Eater, I think the arc wouldve been stronger had it been reshuffled to play out moreso like a Darth Vader/Emperor type deal with Sin Eater and Kindred, with Sin Eater occupying the main threat, and then just dab on the Kindred stuff/Harry reveal into two issues instead of stalling it across 5. As it stands with the reveal Kindred is aware of Sin Eater the whole time, the double cross stuff and crisis of faith with Carter, while good, just seems unnecessary in the scope of things and took time away from Norman/Kafka/MJ and the Order, even though he was the standout parts of there, he was also totally undetectable at the climax of Sins Rising, and still undetectable now.

[captchuck]

This issue didn't work for me. It feels like a brutal fill-in. I think this whole story could have been done in an issue or two.

[evolutionaryFan]

How can anyone fault Peter for the choice he made? May means more to Peter than anything, there isn't anything he wouldn't do for her. The guy would go above and beyond to help/save a stranger, you think he would do any less for May? How is he selfish or a coward for giving up his happiness to save his beloved aunt, if anything that's the definition of selflessness. Besides knowing Peter's morality and his selfless nature do you think he would be happy knowing that he could have prevented Aunt May's death? It would probably eat away at him with feelings of regret, remorse and guilt; maybe even anger. And quite possibly consciously or subconsciously he might even resent MJ for choosing their future over May's life. Everything we know about Peter would point to him making this decision, the guy will go to extremes to save a life, no matter what. And if that means giving up his happiness with MJ, he would do it. Honestly it seems he gets hate for his choice because he took away MJ's happiness, her happy future. Some want to usher May into her grave so MJ can have her happy ending. How happy would she be if Peter was racked with guilt for his choice, or would he not care because only MJ matters.

It was just a stupid and dangerous decision making a deal with the devil. As Dr. Strange says... did he really think there'd be no consequences for this? Did he really think this would help Aunt May? May's soul is in danger now of going to hell... not to mention MJ's soul. Maybe Peter didn't think of all that... but he should have.