politics in comics

[Huntsman Spider]

It has been made apparent to me that there are certain people out there who might mean well, but don’t have any sort of idea what they’re talking about or don’t explain concepts well/realistically enough to be given that much attention, and that those kinds of people who constantly complain about social issues online and/or in fiction probably wouldn’t know what the best way would be to go about helping solve the issue in real life. Not to say people can’t complain, but when one decides to enter the discussion of feminist equality using terms like “girl-power pass” and big-muscled, vein-ridden women imagery, then something tells me that maaaaaaaaaaybe quite a number of other feminists won’t be too quick to cheer on for you.

Hmm, there's a good point. There are the people who mean well, but don't have the best knowledge base on the matter and so undermine their own advocacy, such as it is. Then there are the people who aren't coming from such a well-meaning place at all. Sometimes, it can be hard to tell the difference.

[CentralPower]

. Super-heroes, their supporting casts and opponents are faced with political realities inside and outside costume, being a super-hero won't instantly make a person immune to being attacked or having opinions on things like oppression. Like the legendary Green Arrow/Green Arrow run.

That is a good example of why specific polemics do not work.

Having a Green Lantern and Guardian riding around in a pick-up truck is stupid when set against a backdrop that allows for "Guardians of the Universe" to begin with.

But, it also does not work for a main character to say "not worth my time", no matter how much sense it makes.

[H-E-D]

I feel like you’re setting the bar for polemic much too low.

[Steel Inquisitor]

That is a good example of why specific polemics do not work.

Having a Green Lantern and Guardian riding around in a pick-up truck is stupid when set against a backdrop that allows for "Guardians of the Universe" to begin with.

But, it also does not work for a main character to say "not worth my time", no matter how much sense it makes.

It's a critically acclaimed run. Comics having silly elements in them don't preclude them from addressing real problems in the world we live in, that was the point. It was to bring in realism to the setting, look at how the characters are drawn to reflect that truth. That run was far from the last about addressing the real world in the DCU, much like other media today can't easily dodge out of these topics. This stance would refuse to accept Captain America as a concept.

[skyvolt2000]

It's a critically acclaimed run. Comics having silly elements in them don't preclude them from addressing real problems in the world we live in, that was the point. It was to bring in realism to the setting, look at how the characters are drawn to reflect that truth. That run was far from the last about addressing the real world in the DCU, much like other media today can't easily dodge out of these topics. This stance would refuse to accept Captain America as a concept.

Falcon's first mini was addressing housing and trying to get rid of folks to build more expensive ones.

Heck even the Power pack dealt with that topic.

I want to say Luke cage did too.

The Black Lightning backups after his first book tried and were horrible.

[JudicatorPrime]

I decided to dig through my collection of books.

For your consideration Cage issue 5 1992. From the LETTER page-

A person wrote to the creative team RIPPING them a new one about the book.

"I am very unhappy if not totally embarrassed by the new incarnation of Luke Cage."
"You seemed to turn him into a typical N.W.A. just like Rage, Cyborg and Falcon use to be."
"Cage is an embarrassment to all that is African American."
"He is taking money for doing what should be done out of the goodness of his heart."
He gets compared to a drug dealer. Single minded preoccupation with money and material things.
Cage looks like a gang member and talks too ghetto.
Storm and Monica (at the time Cap Marvel) get bashed as beyond reproach.
"Why do we have to carry the burden and the inequalities of the race?"
"Why do as black men feel it necessary to denigrate and perpetuate those things that shackle us the most?"
A LEGIT criticisms of his powers varying from one book to another is mentioned.

The editor fires back.
Luke cage is NOT meant to be the prime example of all blacks.
The Hero for Hire angle was addressed and compared to cops, fire fighters and bodyguards.
Luke cage's skin is viewed as organic steel.

So my question to yall would be is this an example of legit criticism or bashing?

Oh the writer of the letter???? Kevin Grevioux. Yes THAT Kevin. Blue Marvel's Daddy.

It was a legitimate critique, no different than the actors of the time who often lamented the fact that Black images portrayed on screen for middle America and the world to see were routinely inconsistent with the dignified, hard working men and women of color who comprised the majority of the race. (That lament was shared by other races as well.) Kevin was advocating a paradigm shift in the archetype. That was incredibly difficult back when Marvel only had 2 - 3 prominent African American male heroes, and all of them were more "street" than "Wall Street."

Marvel has a history of great writers, but not one of them created a powerful, intelligent, non-street African American male hero. Really? Not even as a random, stray epiphany??? People complain that doing so now seems like an agenda of some kind. They don't see the irony. If all you push is mayonnaise dressing, well, the people will eventually start to wonder if you have some kind of institutional disfavor of olive oil, or red wine vinaigrette. "What agenda were they serving, really?" some will ask.

That's all that Grevioux' letter was asking, albeit, with a bit more flourish and passion.

[shooshoomanjoe]

Falcon's first mini was addressing housing and trying to get rid of folks to build more expensive ones.

Heck even the Power pack dealt with that topic.

I want to say Luke cage did too.

The Black Lightning backups after his first book tried and were horrible.

Spider man addressed teenage runaways and pimps recruiting them. New Mutants also addressed suicide
I don't see comics (and sitcoms) doing stories like these.

[ed2962]

Spider man addressed teenage runaways and pimps recruiting them. New Mutants also addressed suicide
I don't see comics (and sitcoms) doing stories like these.

These were actually consistent themes in the old Cloak and Dagger series back in the day.

[Chris0013]

My complaint is that they tend to only push one side. Give equal time to both sides of the conversation. For example let there be an debate between 2 characters of differing viewpoints on guns...and DON'T present one as nasty or stupid or in any way negatively.

[Zelena]

The closest I saw lately to a current political topic is 'No more humans' on the subject of refugees.
Earth has gone through a very thorough 'ethnic cleansing' and 'mutant refugees' are coming from all sides to fill the void left by the humans.
All comic authors have political opinions and I suppose they could be analyzed through this lens.
It is different from people who are really interested by what is happening in the real world and are not just inspired by other fictions.
Of course, the main goal is entertainment.

[skyvolt2000]

Spider man addressed teenage runaways and pimps recruiting them. New Mutants also addressed suicide
I don't see comics (and sitcoms) doing stories like these.

The stories are being TOLD. If all you read is Batman or Superman-you're RARELY see them. Because in the past the books that really did it-were not promoted and some stores NEVER carried them. Some have not made it to trades yet.

Take Static's writers (of his first series) covered bullying, bulimia, teen sex, LGBTQ, teen crime, homelessness, role models, gun violence, drug dealing and hate of one's religion.
Icon-Rocket was the FIRST single teen mother heroine.
Hardware dealt with a man who has sexual issue in the bedroom that lead to him becoming a vigilante.
Deathwish introduce a transgender person-the first at DC.
Heroes featured a same sex couple.
Savage Dragon's current storyline is about Malcolm being in Canada because of TRUMP.
Batman The Hill-BLACK FOLKS PUNKED Batman and called out his white privilege.
Static dealing with gun violence in his old book put Champion's issue on it to SHAME. Static didn't get a speech from Ms Marvel like Miles. He went Frank Castle on folks.

I guess you never watched TNBC or Family Matters of 90% of shows for kids. They have ALL done it. Some more obvious than others.

Saved by the Bell was more subtle versus seasons 2-7 of Saved by the Bell New Class, seasons 2-6 of Hang Time and City Guys. Because in 1993 all shows for kids HAD to have some educational material in them. At least for broadcast stations.

Degrasssic classic was ultra subtle than the 2000s series.

[skyvolt2000]

The closest I saw lately to a current political topic is 'No more humans' on the subject of refugees.
Earth has gone through a very thorough 'ethnic cleansing' and 'mutant refugees' are coming from all sides to fill the void left by the humans.
All comic authors have political opinions and I suppose they could be analyzed through this lens.
It is different from people who are really interested by what is happening in the real world and are not just inspired by other fictions.
Of course, the main goal is entertainment.

Read the last Rocket Raccoon series. That topic is sort of addressed.

[CentralPower]

Comics having silly elements in them don't preclude them from addressing real problems in the world we live in, that was the point. It was to bring in realism to the setting, look at how the characters are drawn to reflect that truth.

If you are going to defend the stupider elements of the Silver Age, then you cannot expect legitimate ideas or realism to be handled seriously.

More to the point,some ideas do not work in certain settings, particularly if that setting is a mainline comic series that requires stasis quo.

That run of comics is praised more for being "woke" (before bring "woke" was a thing) rather than being good.

[Zelena]

Read the last Rocket Raccoon series. That topic is sort of addressed.

Oh? Thanks.

[Steel Inquisitor]

If you are going to defend the stupider elements of the Silver Age, then you cannot expect legitimate ideas or realism to be handled seriously.

More to the point,some ideas do not work in certain settings, particularly if that setting is a mainline comic series that requires stasis quo.

That run of comics is praised more for being "woke" (before bring "woke" was a thing) rather than being good.

Bronze Age. I'm not defending anything other than how Grell put realistic elements in his comics, it was groundbreaking at the time.

Show me examples of things like that you didn't like. Why did you think Grell failed? Have you read it? Your complains are so broad as to be useless, every comic has a status quo. By your definitions no super-hero should touch on any political subject, including Captain America.

Maybe in your circles, in mine Grell's run is beloved because he's a quality writer.