SECRET WARS #2 Spoilers

[Peter Parker]

To be frank, Speed's greatest asset appears to be he runs slightly faster than Quicksilver...

well i did say usually.

[RobinFan4880]

Loved this issue so much. Hickman is such a great writer.

I can't wait to see how Doom's utopia is ruined by the Cabal.

[yet another]

I can't wait to see how Doom's utopia is ruined by the Cabal.

It does not seem to be much of a Utopia to me.

Unless perhaps if you're Doom.

I get the impression Doom is not as omnipotent here as he gives the impression of, if he were there would be no need for suppressing dissenters and doubters. He's probably just playing God for some reason.

[RobinFan4880]

It does not seem to be much of a Utopia to me.

Unless perhaps if you're Doom.

I get the impression Doom is not as omnipotent here as he gives the impression of, if he were there would be no need for suppressing dissenters and doubters. He's probably just playing God for some reason.

Doom would not need to ask questions of his Barons if he were truly omnipotent. He should just know, right?

[Iron Maiden]

Speaking of the power of stories... with the enforcement corps of Thors, I'm eagerly awaiting the next Agent of Asgard and want to see if there are multiple Lokis running around as well, or only one God of Stories.

I think it might be something covered in the Last Days of Loki and in any case I will be picking that up next week. And as was pointed out by the Loki fans earlier, maybe Ewing added more foreshadowing than we knew when Doom did confront Loki in the Axis tie in, they had a duel based on their stories. And Doom bested Loki on that count.

Could Doom be holding things together with the power of story? He seemed somewhat distracted and Susan seems to be their at his side for that reason. I think Val, Stephen and Sue are helping him to keep things going because there's really nothing else right now. Even back when Molecule Man and Doom were first talking in NA, Doom would ask MM about his story.

[Haquim]

Not to repeat myself but I think things went as follows:

-Doom challanged the beyonders, he had spent 25 years becoming Rabum Alal, charging himself with the power of faith from all over the multiverse thanks to his cult and this allowed him to be able to have a chance against the Ivory Kings.
-Doom wasn't ENTIRELY succesful. As the clash with the beyonders accelerated the rate of decay of reality. He was still fighting them when the 616 and the 1610 earths crushed into each other.
-While still in conflict with the beyonders Doom salvaged the pieces of the multiverse he could and patched them togheter creating battlew... ehrm Latverion. He also estabilished himself as its god and appointed Strange as his sheriff, he also gave power to barons in order to keep order (no justice really, Doom wants order, nothing more if the one mantaining it are evil like sinister he cares not as long as they don't challange him and his rules)
-Doom did what he did while still fighting the beyonders and HE IS STILL LOCKED IN A BATTLE WITH THEM. That's why Latverion is composed by patches, why he salvaged things like the zombies, the ultrons and the annihilation wave, he could NOT do finer manipulation. He just saved everything he could and locked the most dangerous elements out from the rest of his planet.
-As Doom is still fighting an immortal and supremely powerful opponent that wants nothing more than the destruction of everything he needs a constant influx of power. That power comes from the faith of the people of battleworld in him. That's why unbelief is dealt with so harshly and Strange is so worried about breaches of faith. DOOM NEEDS THE PEOPLE OF BATTLEWORLD TO BELIEVE HE'S GOD, OTHERWISE HE'LL LOSE AGAINST THE BEYONDERS AND THEY'LL DESTROY EVERYTHING!
-That means Battleworld is NOT Doom's ideal world. It's just what he could do to save reality given the circumstances he's in. Also, promoting disbelief really is dangerous as Doom is literally what's keeping reality togheter!

[yet another]

I hadn't read that before (too long thread) so thanks for re-posting, sounds like a plausible theory.

[Raye]

Speaking of the power of stories... with the enforcement corps of Thors, I'm eagerly awaiting the next Agent of Asgard and want to see if there are multiple Lokis running around as well, or only one God of Stories.

We have seen very, very little of Loki in previews for anything on Battleworld, there's the Lady Loki from A-force and.... that's about it. so I don't think this is the case. I do have a hunch he will play a role, just... not in the same way as the Thors.

I think it might be something covered in the Last Days of Loki and in any case I will be picking that up next week. And as was pointed out by the Loki fans earlier, maybe Ewing added more foreshadowing than we knew when Doom did confront Loki in the Axis tie in, they had a duel based on their stories. And Doom bested Loki on that count.

Could Doom be holding things together with the power of story? He seemed somewhat distracted and Susan seems to be their at his side for that reason. I think Val, Stephen and Sue are helping him to keep things going because there's really nothing else right now. Even back when Molecule Man and Doom were first talking in NA, Doom would ask MM about his story.

Doom bested him then, but Loki just got a MAJOR power upgrade to the 'god of stories' he is basically a powerful reality warper now, with the ability to change the story of the MU. But yeah, I have suspected for a while now that basically Battleworld is made of story. There is a REASON Doom's base of operations leading up to this was an enormous Library of all things. I think he has crafted Battleworld out of pure story, it's his liferaft, the Reeds preserved people, Doom preserved the stories of the multiverse. And given all the emphasis on Norse myth, even if there aren't a bunch of him running around, the likelihood of 616 Loki playing a part in all this just went up significantly. It could be that Doom tried to recreate everything, but as much as he likes to think he has achieved godhood, he's not a god. He may need an ACTUAL god to put things fully right.

[vitruvian]

Apart from the Limbo nothing yet. Not the Negative Zone, (just its Denizens), not Nightmares or Dormammus dimensions, not under space or over space. But I did see what appeared to be a sun in one panel, although it was heavily defused light from the source.

?

None of those are afterlives. Heaven, Hell (i.e., Mephisto's realm where Doom's mother would be), Hel's realm of Niflheim, Hades, Valhalla, those are what I'm asking about.

As for the sun, we know there's some sort of space in which Battleworld exists, since Knowhere will be orbiting it. The origin story the new Thor recounts includes the creation of "life-giving suns". Earlier in the Thors scene, the existence of stars is mentioned, although there are supposedly fewer than there once were. When they pass through to where the Cabal's raft is (indicating that Battleworld is a flat world with an underside!), we also see plenty of stars. I think we can be pretty sure that Doom (or whoever else) set Battleworld up in a 'solar system' (or Battleworld system, with a sun going around it like in ancient myth) with a sun to give sufficient light and heat.

[vitruvian]

I think a couple examples are the secret rooms and the under side of battleworld. Doom apparently does not "know" everything like who is running the resistance and that the life raft was even there.

Not knowing those things does not mean at all that he's forgotten the old universe.

[vitruvian]

Doom would not need to ask questions of his Barons if he were truly omnipotent. He should just know, right?

No, not by virtue of being omnipotent. That means all-powerful, not all-knowing.

The word you're searching for is omniscient.

[Raye]

?

None of those are afterlives. Heaven, Hell (i.e., Mephisto's realm where Doom's mother would be), Hel's realm of Niflheim, Hades, Valhalla, those are what I'm asking about.

As for the sun, we know there's some sort of space in which Battleworld exists, since Knowhere will be orbiting it. The origin story the new Thor recounts includes the creation of "life-giving suns". Earlier in the Thors scene, the existence of stars is mentioned, although there are supposedly fewer than there once were. When they pass through to where the Cabal's raft is (indicating that Battleworld is a flat world with an underside!), we also see plenty of stars. I think we can be pretty sure that Doom (or whoever else) set Battleworld up in a 'solar system' (or Battleworld system, with a sun going around it like in ancient myth) with a sun to give sufficient light and heat.

I know it seems like it's flat but.... it can't be. Look at the map. It is a continuous landmass that wraps around, and the shape of the map itself indicates a sphere. It could be we are looking at something like a hollow planet, and (somehow) the Cabal's life raft ended up INSIDE it.... or alternately, Battleworld itself is what's on the inside of the sphere, like a Dyson Sphere, and the liferaft is on the outside.

[Nyadnar17]

Not to repeat myself but I think things went as follows:

-Doom challanged the beyonders, he had spent 25 years becoming Rabum Alal, charging himself with the power of faith from all over the multiverse thanks to his cult and this allowed him to be able to have a chance against the Ivory Kings.
-Doom wasn't ENTIRELY succesful. As the clash with the beyonders accelerated the rate of decay of reality. He was still fighting them when the 616 and the 1610 earths crushed into each other.
-While still in conflict with the beyonders Doom salvaged the pieces of the multiverse he could and patched them togheter creating battlew... ehrm Latverion. He also estabilished himself as its god and appointed Strange as his sheriff, he also gave power to barons in order to keep order (no justice really, Doom wants order, nothing more if the one mantaining it are evil like sinister he cares not as long as they don't challange him and his rules)
-Doom did what he did while still fighting the beyonders and HE IS STILL LOCKED IN A BATTLE WITH THEM. That's why Latverion is composed by patches, why he salvaged things like the zombies, the ultrons and the annihilation wave, he could NOT do finer manipulation. He took saved everything he could and locked the most dangerous elements out from the rest of his planet.
-As Doom is still fighting an immoratal and supremely powerful opponent that wants nothing more than the destruction of everything he needs a constant influx of power. That power comes from the faith of the people of battleworld in him. That's why unbelief is dealt with so harshly and Strange is so worried about breaches of faith. DOOM NEEDS THE PEOPLE OF BATTLEWORLD TO BELIEVE HE'S GOD, OTHERWISE HE'LL LOSE AGAINST THE BEYONDERS AND THEY'LL DESTROY EVERYTHING!
-That means Battleworld is NOT Doom's ideal world. It's just what he could do to save reality given the circumstances he's in. Also, promoting disbelief really is dangerous as Doom is literally what's keeping reality togheter!

I agree 110%. The faith as a necessary aspect for survival is especially interesting in light of the two raft being filled with nothing but the faithless. Most of the people on the rafts either have no faith(because in Marvel faith and science are opposed), believe only in death, or have had their faith shattered by the events of Time Runs Out. Interesting enough HickmanClops is one of the few that still has his faith.

[vitruvian]

Not to repeat myself but I think things went as follows:

-Doom challanged the beyonders, he had spent 25 years becoming Rabum Alal, charging himself with the power of faith from all over the multiverse thanks to his cult and this allowed him to be able to have a chance against the Ivory Kings.

Nope, not 25 years. About 13, probably. He only started once the Molecule Man was created, that occurred after the Fantastic Four had their origin, and that happened no more than about 13 years ago in Marvel time. There were still about 12 years left on the fuse when the final Incursion happened. Some wiggle room here, it could be 14-15 years and therefore 11-10 years left on the clock, but Peter Parker had become Spider-Man by that point at age 15, and he is not 40 years old when boarding the life raft.

-Doom wasn't ENTIRELY succesful. As the clash with the beyonders accelerated the rate of decay of reality. He was still fighting them when the 616 and the 1610 earths crushed into each other.
-While still in conflict with the beyonders Doom salvaged the pieces of the multiverse he could and patched them togheter creating battlew... ehrm Latverion. He also estabilished himself as its god and appointed Strange as his sheriff, he also gave power to barons in order to keep order (no justice really, Doom wants order, nothing more if the one mantaining it are evil like sinister he cares not as long as they don't challange him and his rules)
-Doom did what he did while still fighting the beyonders and HE IS STILL LOCKED IN A BATTLE WITH THEM. That's why Latverion is composed by patches, why he salvaged things like the zombies, the ultrons and the annihilation wave, he could NOT do finer manipulation. He took saved everything he could and locked the most dangerous elements out from the rest of his planet.
-As Doom is still fighting an immoratal and supremely powerful opponent that wants nothing more than the destruction of everything he needs a constant influx of power. That power comes from the faith of the people of battleworld in him. That's why unbelief is dealt with so harshly and Strange is so worried about breaches of faith. DOOM NEEDS THE PEOPLE OF BATTLEWORLD TO BELIEVE HE'S GOD, OTHERWISE HE'LL LOSE AGAINST THE BEYONDERS AND THEY'LL DESTROY EVERYTHING!
-That means Battleworld is NOT Doom's ideal world. It's just what he could do to save reality given the circumstances he's in. Also, promoting disbelief really is dangerous as Doom is literally what's keeping reality togheter!

All the rest of this sounds like reasonable speculation, although we'll have to wait to see how much of it is borne out.

[The Fury]

he also gave power to barons in order to keep order (no justice really, Doom wants order, nothing more if the one mantaining it are evil like sinister he cares not as long as they don't challange him and his rules)

A nice point, they were mostly those who are willing to maintain power too due to their significance or status in the MU, nearly all villains. Braddock was oddly placed that as his villainy comes from his messed up mind and warping abilities, without them he is just a Braddock.