DC's Dan DiDio Out as Co-Publisher

[Frontier]

apparently, following the news of Dan's departure, ethan van Swriver said that if 5G doesn't pan out they are going to close down DC comics in it's entirety. i may be misremembering but isn't that the guy that was fired from DC for wil'n out, stoking outrage and harrassment and whatnot? regardless this sounds like cap to me but it popped up when I was googling about any updates on the Didio story so I figured I'd share it here.

Yeah, I doubt Van Sciver knows what he's talking about.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

Uh, well, the point of the comic-book industry is to produce stories that people want to read, so...
All the reports coming through are suggesting that Dan Didio was creating an increasingly hostile work environment at DC and alienating a LOT of creative and editorial talent (ya know, the people you need to write and edit your comic books).

I'm aware of Didio's reported history. And I believe it.

But, cmon, you can't really say no posts aren't hostile or personal. "Good riddance" itself implies a personal dislike for the subject it's directed towards. How many posts say that? But hey, I get it. Fanboyism doesn't value humanity. Nothing new or surprising.

You can't sit up and make excuses about the lack of POC or women-when you go to comic cons or look at what other companies are doing.

Especially if looking for talent is part of your job description.

Oh I agree. I think that's partially why DC is better in that regards now than it was in 2011. But who's responsibility is it to actually scout? I've heard from those same higher-ups that they (themselves) don't scout. They look at pitches and then hire based off that (when it's not their own idea). Now that could be just for some titles, could've been a different time, etc. I really don't know. Honestly, how many execs actually go scouting for up and coming talent? It seems like maybe its own designated job, or something that maybe a group editor might do?

DC has seriously failed hard at recruiting the next gen under Didio. Marvel has Donny Cates, Al Ewing, Eve Ewing, Chip Zdarsky, and a lot of promising new talent. DC has a lot of bland and mediocre writers with a few younger super stars like Snyder and King. Whoever takes over for Didio needs to do a better job at getting new talent. I have very little faith in Lee or Harras ability do better, Lee gave his old Wildstorm and Marvel buddies books during the New 52, and Harras has made sure that Lobdell always gets a book at DC as long as he’s there.

This is the biggest key, imo. Not Didio's ideas or even the toxic workplace. DC simply didn't have the same pool of talent that Marvel did/does. What's the saying, "winning cures everything"? Same could be said about sales and distribution of money. If DC had the depth of top level talent, maybe they actually do outsell Marvel and everyone is just pleased as pie making more money, and can overlook all the negative aspects of working for DC?

Why do people keep bringing up the average viewer. We're fans not average viewers, so who cares about the general audience's awareness level towards these characters. They don't buy the comics, they're not invested in those properties and they wouldn't give a damn if DC closed its doors tomorrow. I don't understand why fans always bring up the general audience in forums about comic book characters.

Because, like Reggie Jackson for the Yankees back in the '70s, TV.movies/video games are the straws that stir the drink (based on their far greater number of participants). Therefore, it's impossible not to bring up the general audience in any of these debates, IMO.

Yeah...not sure how the casual fan CAN'T be brought up in these discussions. They're the true lifeblood of superheroes, unfortunately. Devout comic fans are just like a supplemental, unnecessary IV.

[Johnny]

Because, like Reggie Jackson for the Yankees back in the '70s, TV.movies/video games are the straws that stir the drink (based on their far greater number of participants). Therefore, it's impossible not to bring up the general audience in any of these debates, IMO.

People who watch the Arrowverse shows or play the Arkham and Injustice video games don't buy the comics. Same way people who went to see Aquaman, Wonder Woman or Joker don't care for the source material. That stands even more true for Marvel and many creators have brought up how Hollywood constantly benefits from their stories but their monthly comic sales not only don't increase regardless of how many billions of dollars those movies make, but decrease and more and more comic shops go out of business with each passing year. From that standpoint I believe what the general audience thinks is utterly irrelevant in a discussion like this. They not only don't help move the needle but they even tend to look down on the source material for no reason.

[Johnny]

Yeah...not sure how the casual fan CAN'T be brought up in these discussions. They're the true lifeblood of superheroes, unfortunately. Devout comic fans are just like a supplemental, unnecessary IV.

Because the casual fan is not the type of consumer who supports the publisher that provides the source material for the outside media adaptation they happen to enjoy in the first place. The casual fan could choose to buy the Blu-Ray for the latest season of the Supergirl show, but they would not buy the latest TPB of the Supergirl comic.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I'm just hoping that this news might mean that whatever failed concepts forced on us during the New 52 that are still around can finally be swept under the rug and forgotten. I can't imagine anyone except for Didio was really pushing to keep that stuff around. Hopefully, Cyborg can finally rejoin the Titans and we can get that NTT continuity back and maybe even see that team return to prominence. Also, I'm hoping that the Bat-family recovers from the crap its been through since the New 52. Cass and Steph need their Pre-New 52 continuity restored and so does the rest of the Bat-family in general.

That's the problem I'm talking about. He STILL have some sort of relevance, regardless whether he has no power and only relegated to miscellaneous roles. With Dan DiDio gone (finally), excuse me if I feel a little nervous when Geoff Johns is still around to some capacity. But at least I can sleep more better after Dan DiDio has left the building

Of course, he's still relevant. He's likely to be remembered as one of the best comic-book writers of his generation and just came off of a big event, which was one of the only books at DC receiving consistent critical acclaim. He's also done so much for DC with the JSA, Teen Titans, and Green Lantern. And honestly, it's hard to believe, looking at the way things are now, that Green Lantern was one of DC's highest-selling properties just a few years ago. So, yes, I say let Johns stay for as long as he wants.

[skyvolt2000]

Why do people keep bringing up the average viewer. We're fans not average viewers, so who cares about the general audience's awareness level towards these characters. They don't buy the comics, they're not invested in those properties and they wouldn't give a damn if DC closed its doors tomorrow. I don't understand why fans always bring up the general audience in forums about comic book characters.

Because general audiences matter.


The reason why they tend to not bother with comics books is because what they LIKE is different from the entitled comic book fan. And in many cases what they like is NOT in a comic book.

If someone liked say Star Girl based on her show-where in DC can they read about her? Oh that's right no book with her because she been AWOL.

Static, young Justice kids and so many others appearing on shows are MIA in comics. And like we saw with Marvel-any attempt to try to use them gets backlash not only form fans but comic book stores.

See Black Panther-all his books met backlash. Yet all those trades found success with some soundly BEATING DC.


Also access-to get a comic you have to find a store. Not everyone does digital.

Then you have to deal with toxic fandom. Who wants to put up with that? Manbabies screaming about why is there a minority or woman in a movie? Review bombing and threats to actors. People see that stuff.

[The Darknight Detective]

People who watch the Arrowverse shows or play the Arkham and Injustice video games don't buy the comics. Same way people who went to see Aquaman, Wonder Woman or Joker don't care for the source material. That stands even more true for Marvel and many creators have brought up how Hollywood constantly benefits from their stories but their monthly comic sales not only don't increase regardless of how many billions of dollars those movies make, but decrease more and more with each passing year. From that standpoint I believe what the general audience thinks is utterly irrelevant in a discussion like this. They not only don't help move the needle but they even tend to look down on the source material for no reason.

I understand all of that, Johnny, but it still doesn't change the fact that comics take quite a bit from the other more popular mediums. It's not really arguable, either.

[Johnny]

Because general audiences matter.


The reason why they tend to not bother with comics books is because what they LIKE is different from the entitled comic book fan. And in many cases what they like is NOT in a comic book.

If someone liked say Star Girl based on her show-where in DC can they read about her? Oh that's right no book with her because she been AWOL.

Static, young Justice kids and so many others appearing on shows are MIA in comics. And like we saw with Marvel-any attempt to try to use them gets backlash not only form fans but comic book stores.

See Black Panther-all his books met backlash. Yet all those trades found success with some soundly BEATING DC.


Also access-to get a comic you have to find a store. Not everyone does digital.

Then you have to deal with toxic fandom. Who wants to put up with that? Manbabies screaming about why is there a minority or woman in a movie? Review bombing and threats to actors. People see that stuff.

I'm pretty sure the Black Panther book doesn't have low sales because of entitled fans. The movie made huge bank and got a nomination for Best picture, so why is the book doing 15K? Where are those "casual fans" at? Not everything can be blamed on nostalgia, bigotry or fan entitlement.

[Tzigone]

People who watch the Arrowverse shows or play the Arkham and Injustice video games don't buy the comics. Same way people who went to see Aquaman, Wonder Woman or Joker don't care for the source material. That stands even more true for Marvel and many creators have brought up how Hollywood constantly benefits from their stories but their monthly comic sales not only don't increase regardless of how many billions of dollars those movies make, but decrease more and more with each passing year. From that standpoint I believe what the general audience thinks is utterly irrelevant in a discussion like this.

Yeah, they don't bring in money to the comic division (the IPs make money, but that doesn't help the actual comics). Movies don't seem to move the needle in readership now and haven't for a while. I do think regaining casual readers/a wider fanbase is the only real chance comics have truly surviving. And I'm not sure it's all possible to do. As I've said before, they need to be accessible. Easily obtainable instead on a website or store where someone has to seek them out. So that someone can see them and say "oh, I liked the movie" and pick them up.

I do think appealing to kids again is the best shot as survival. To do that, they need to be easily available/visible, somewhat accessible, and pretty cheap. Even if they don't go for the kid market, though, actual floppies (not TBPs) need to more often have entire stories in them to gain the "occasional readers." And honestly, I'm not even sure that would work. Sometimes mediums just die off as a widespread thing. Sometimes they come back later and sometimes they don't. Comics have been pretty niche for a long time. With the same long-time fans hanging around. Some new ones, sure but not en masse. And that also makes them (me, for example) averse to huge changeups and ditching old characters.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I'm aware of Didio's reported history. And I believe it.

But, cmon, you can't really say no posts aren't hostile or personal. "Good riddance" itself implies a personal dislike for the subject it's directed towards. How many posts say that? But hey, I get it. Fanboyism doesn't value humanity. Nothing new or surprising.

I don't know if anyone here has actively wished ill on Dan Didio. I haven't seen any posts saying "I hope he never works again." I can only speak for myself, but I hope Dan does land on his feet and has a long and great career. However, I also think that that career should be far away from DC and/or Marvel. In the end, he just was not good at his job and did a lot of damage to DC in his time there.

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm pretty sure the Black Panther book doesn't have low sales because of entitled fans. The movie made huge bank and got a nomination for Best picture, so why is the book not selling better? Where are those "casual fans" at? Not everything can be blamed on nostalgia, bigotry or fan entitlement.

It's been clear since the 2000s really that the general audience (people who mainly consume material like the MCU and DCEU) are utterly divorced from the customer base that makes up the direct market. Captain American and Iron Man have some of the biggest movies and yet they are doing +20K. Meanwhile X-Men and Batman are the kings.

[skyvolt2000]

Because the casual fan is not the type of consumer who supports the publisher that provides the source material for the outside media adaptation they happen to enjoy in the first place. The casual fan could choose to buy the Blu-Ray for the latest season of the Supergirl show, but they would not buy the latest TPB of the Supergirl comic.

First they have to KNOW it exists.

Second they have to KNOW where to buy it and hopefully it is in stock. Otherwise they are going to wait for the library to get it.

You want the casual fan-put the products where they SHOP at. Barnes & Noble and comic book stores are not the answer.

Using my city as the example-

There are 3 Barnes & Nobles-NONE in the black community. NONE in the Latino Community.

Meanwhile there are 20 Wal-marts in those communities.

If you are trying to sell DC would doing it there make more sense? Yet I see Mine Craft, IDW, Lion Forge, Boom, Kaboom & Marvel there.

[dornwolf]

The general audience has confused the upcoming Avengers game with being part of the MCU. There initial complaints were that the characters didn't look like the MCU versions. I don't put too much stock in general audience.

[lemonpeace]

Because the casual fan is not the type of consumer who supports the publisher that provides the source material for the outside media adaptation they happen to enjoy in the first place. The casual fan could choose to buy the Blu-Ray for the latest season of the Supergirl show, but they would not buy the latest TPB of the Supergirl comic.

but wouldn't the question be, why aren't the comics drawing those casual fans in to buy the product? I mean most if not all of these "hardcore fans" are buying comics regardless, if only just to complain, but the industry is still dipping and dying because as the year goes by DC isn't producing more hardcore fans and the ones they already have are falling off, aging out, or dying off. so it would appear you do in fact need the casual fans and the wider media fans. there is clearly a reason there are more people who are willing to casually tune in or buy a ticket to see these same characters elsewhere. the problem is and always has been how to get more eyeballs, and you can't get new eyes with stories catered to consumers with sensibilities at odds with what the general public wants to see or with a business model that doesn't gel with how we consume pop culture/media now.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Because general audiences matter.


The reason why they tend to not bother with comics books is because what they LIKE is different from the entitled comic book fan. And in many cases what they like is NOT in a comic book.

If someone liked say Star Girl based on her show-where in DC can they read about her? Oh that's right no book with her because she been AWOL.

Static, young Justice kids and so many others appearing on shows are MIA in comics. And like we saw with Marvel-any attempt to try to use them gets backlash not only form fans but comic book stores.

See Black Panther-all his books met backlash. Yet all those trades found success with some soundly BEATING DC.


Also access-to get a comic you have to find a store. Not everyone does digital.

Then you have to deal with toxic fandom. Who wants to put up with that? Manbabies screaming about why is there a minority or woman in a movie? Review bombing and threats to actors. People see that stuff.

Wait. Since when has publishing a Black Panther book ever met backlash?? He's one of Marvel's most popular characters. Are we sure that the sales are low because of "fan outrage" at the book?

Also, a lot of fans have been clamoring for a return of the entire Milestone roster of characters for a long time. The issues that have prevented their return are all legal, not because fans don't want them.