Personalities/Traits of the Robins

[oasis1313]

Hi, Krusty! You make a lot of good points, and I appreciate hearing the honest reply of someone who is a big Tim fan. We all need to know where each other is coming from, and I'm glad we can do so in an amiable way, as friends. I do gently differ with you in that I consider Bat-Cow to be high-tier or top-shelf.

[nhienphan2808]

About Damian, I see no Te in him pre-flashpoint. Fi-doms has even beaten me, a stereotype INTJ before. He has good arguments and deductions doesn't mean he uses Te. He uses too much "I" for a 10 years old.

[oasis1313]

About Damian, I see no Te in him pre-flashpoint. Fi-doms has even beaten me, a stereotype INTJ before. He has good arguments and deductions doesn't mean he uses Te. He uses too much "I" for a 10 years old.

All these initials confuse me.

[Zaresh]

I see you havent read early Bruce and Dick and you have some good MBTI knowledge but you don't really have a "feeling" for different types. ENFJ and ISTJ is when their characters has already taken shift, and that shift is ooc and ugly tbh. I know they have been written as mamy things, but i believe our type decides your development through life, and with Bruce and Dick in particular they developed in a process through 70 years without heavy changes so i would always take their Golden/Silver Age types as canon.

Devin Grayson wrote Dick as a Fe-looping ESTP and he seems "idealistic" so everyone types him NF. 40s to 2000 Dick was all about "doing" and "doing something again". He is very traditional and down to earth both in love life and the way he thinks everything. He was softened a whole lot when the 2000s came with weird origin retcons that makes him love Bruce and girls the desperate way ENFJs do. (Fe-Ni) With Early Dick, the reason he keep "idealing" is because he HAS gone through enough bullshit and made mistakes. and he channels those in keeping the fight and forgiving and doing VERY practical things for family. All the while he imitates but still struggles to understand Bruce's way of theorising. (Si) To contrast, Clark is ENFJ. He says "Why you no love me?" . Dick says "Why you no care about your family and no remember our past as Batman and Robin?") He lives "by the book" and his book is Bruce

Bruce has never lived "by the book. prepared for everything" until Morrison and some others wrote him as Batgod and thrown in his "multi universal" past and future stuff. For 60 years , Bruce was THE rule breaker of the INTJ rule breakers, always up to a challenge and will deal with any suprises, and his idealistic ideas are very self-made. He talks and believes more than he "prepares". Also INTJ uses Si too, when they are depressed, traumalised and anxious, since it's our 8th function called demonic. Bar Morrison, the 2000s is when they turns up Bruce's disorder and depression so that's where he used more Si. All in all, "playboy" Bruce was his Se. I'm INTJ and I am not a fan of changes - I mean I WANT changes and Bruce too, but in some cases , like your City being Gotham and being Batman, you can't afford that (you would see some comics show that BECAUSE Bruce was stuck doing the same thing forever that he had depression - and new stuff either, and i can relate to the way Bruce cope (by not coping at all) You would see Golden Age to Bronse Age Bruce chilling while Dick worries back and forth. The Joker gets to Bruce because INTJ and ENTP "matches" better than others, Tim clicks with Bruce because he's also an NT.

Just want to point out that as Aanz (was it Aanz? In page two) said, it's hard to see certain profile or tag, or even description of these fictional characters as a monolithic entity with certain personality. You're going to (probably) go ad infinitum with these argument if you try too hard to put Bruce and Dick inside an ultimate acronym junguianesque type of personality (whatever its name is. I didn't sleep yet and I feel a bit too lazy to properly look at what this scheme of personality traits name is. Will do, promise: sounds really interesting and fun)

I also want to point out that Bronze Age Bruce was definitely a different character. I first meet Batman with the Burton movies: loved it. Then I saw the TAS show: loved it. Then I read some old comics from the 80: loved it. Then I started reading 90's and 00's comics and... not a fan. Definitely, there is a change in the overal take of the character by the writers that break any sympathy I can feel for him. I tend to blame Miller's stories changing how people read him and all the 90's mood and story arc for that shift, but maybe I have to blame Morrison too. I don't know, I never thought about what Morrison did to his portray,: I will always blame him for not getting Jason at all, and Talia tb, probably. But I don't know about Dick; he felt different from what I saw of him in the early 80's (which isn't much), but it also feels a bit like a natural change for his character being dragged through really hard and stressful times.

[yohyoi]

Dick acts like an ENFJ, the Protagonist. No wonder people call him the center of the DCU because people gather around him. He wears his heart on his sleeves and inspire the best out of his teammates. He loves helping people. Sometimes too much that he puts others needs before himself. No wonder Dick is so liked.

[nhienphan2808]

Dick acts like an ENFJ, the Protagonist. No wonder people call him the center of the DCU because people gather around him. He wears his heart on his sleeves and inspire the best out of his teammates. He loves helping people. Sometimes too much that he puts others needs before himself. No wonder Dick is so liked.

No, he just happens to be an "idealistic" ESFJ. He imitates both his father figures who are both very N. the ENFJ you talk about is Clark.

[nhienphan2808]

Deleted post.

[nhienphan2808]

Just want to point out that as Aanz (was it Aanz? In page two) said, it's hard to see certain profile or tag, or even description of these fictional characters as a monolithic entity with certain personality. You're going to (probably) go ad infinitum with these argument if you try too hard to put Bruce and Dick inside an ultimate acronym junguianesque type of personality (whatever its name is. I didn't sleep yet and I feel a bit too lazy to properly look at what this scheme of personality traits name is. Will do, promise: sounds really interesting and fun)
The
I also want to point out that Bronze Age Bruce was definitely a different character. I first meet Batman with the Burton movies: loved it. Then I saw the TAS show: loved it. Then I read some old comics from the 80: loved it. Then I started reading 90's and 00's comics and... not a fan. Definitely, there is a change in the overal take of the character by the writers that break any sympathy I can feel for him. I tend to blame Miller's stories changing how people read him and all the 90's mood and story arc for that shift, but maybe I have to blame Morrison too. I don't know, I never thought about what Morrison did to his portray,: I will always blame him for not getting Jason at all, and Talia tb, probably. But I don't know about Dick; he felt different from what I saw of him in the early 80's (which isn't much), but it also feels a bit like a natural change for his character being dragged through really hard and stressful times.

I hear you friend. With Both Bruce and Dick, Jason's death was a life-changing time that makes them behave unhealthily. One types unhealthy is the other type s normal. It's just that with Devin and Morrison, they have become new types that behaves normal, all the previous development discarded. And yeah traits differs from earth to earth, but in comic all earths kinda slumped into each other the more they retcons so my starting point is always the first appearance ever of every character. For instance, a Bruce that was batgod never would have adopted children carelessly. Morrisons Bruce is ISTJ for sure, dying Jason's hair to look like Dick *gags* similarly, its because of Dick's practicality and love for the past typical for his type that made him loyal, while Devin made Dicks love for Bruce confused and queer.

[Fergus]

I know you're far from being a Tim fan, but a lot of what you said is just not true about the character. For example Tim being a Olympic level gymnast, let's just say that really rings blank. It never really showed up in stories, physically he was still inferior to Bruce and all of the other Robin's, as well as the Batgirl's. This is backed by the fact when everyone is shown together, Tim is clearly the least physically gifted(with everything considered).

You noted Tim was 'shown' to be a greater detective than anyone else in the Bat Fam. Really? Also untrue. I can't name one story where Tim was shown to be a greater detective than Bruce, because as far as I know I have yet to read one. Tim in the past was only stated to have great potential to become a great detective, it has never been stated or shown that he is the best, just a competent one. To top that off, Tim is not greater than Bruce overall like you seem to describe in your rundown, he's actually inferior to him in pretty much every category, computers perhaps being the only exception.

Your closing statement also makes no sense. Dick, Jason, and Damian have all done well as or even better than Tim while in the spot light. In fact I'd say Tim falls in last place in that regard if we consider outside media as well.

I think your letting what some Tim fanboys have said cloud what really is on paper. Concerning the Bat Family when it comes to skill, Tim easily would be mid tier, and this is coming from a big Tim fan. If you consider the skills of everyone in the bat crew and how each of them would handle flying solo(current versions) with their given skill sets I see it lining up something like this;

1. Top shelf
-Batman

2. High tier
-Nightwing
-Batgirl, Robin, Red Hood

3. Mid tier
-Batwoman, Huntress
-Batwing, Red Robin, Cass Cain
-Spoiler, Catwoman

4. Low Tier
-The Signal(Duke)
-Bluebird
-Bat-Cow

No Krusty, Oasis was mostly accurate in his assesment.

Tim is getting anther chance at Robin, A role which now belongs to Damian but he is now forced to share because tim Drake and his fans have this just won't let go and act like it belongs to him. Damian deserves to have the same chance and privilege and respect that Tim when he came in the role. he deserves the chance to serve without fans calling for his death, hoping he fails or just the former guy hanging around dressed as him.

Another legacy character would have been retired. But not Tim Drake gets a pass. Forget that it undermines Damian and encurages Tim's ire against the character.

It feels like Tim Drake is morphing into a MECA ROBIN/BATMAN. He is all of them combined and his writers keep trying to stuff parts from other Robins into him

1, Greatest detective - That's Tim now
2, A Wayne with Al Ghul connections - there a character who is the son of Bruce and grandson of Ra's lets have Tim change his name to Wayne and suddenly have Ra's interested in having him.
3,Orphan, Everyone is an Orphan so lets kill his folk's
4,Sex on legs Dick is popular with the girls so lets give Tim a Harem
5, Batman with guns - Red hood has two guns. BatTim has Joe Chill's gun's
6, Ra's elevates Dick to Robin - Ra's not only calls Tim detective but now want's him to be his Heir a role that belonged to Bruce and Damian.
7, Dick is an acrobat - Tim is a gymnast.
8, The Robin's have angst - Tim has all the angst he had more than just his folks killed
9, Jason has PTSD - Tim is suicidal. he falls out a window.

Tim writer's say hold my beer..... we'll one up.

It just keeps happening. They keep trying to inject life into a stalled character by augmenting him with details and traits and abilities from other bat character's . And at times shamelessly as was the case with Red Robin.

It feel like because DC invested so much time in crafting this perfect Robin they are reluctant to give up. They keep sabotaging the others for his sake.

The thing is they've added so much to his character that he's gone from an everyman to a cheatcode. He is so skilled to the point that now it's a turn off.

Tim is the least skilled and yet he beats Lady Shiva and took down Batman and all the Robins in one go. Which is it? It's like they want us to think he is just normal but really he is fanfiction gone amock. He is worse than a marysue and regular insert characters. Tim is like those characters from Twilght and 50 shades. The embarrassingly indulgent side of compensation and selfpity that lacks awareness.

The only Robin with better media exposure is Dick. Tim has years of syndication in BTAS he has YJ. Animated movies are no match to a long running series.

It's always interesting to hear how fans interpret thing's. I feel that DC indulges Tim fans which is why they have this entitlement. This is why they have no qualms outright calling for a character t be killed just so they can benefit. It's why they can make claims like Tim is the most Iconic Robin or how he invented the modern Batfamily.

i'm not a Tim fan but you know what I gave him a chance to Robin. I didn't loudly complain that Dick wasn't Robin or that Tim was the worst character [even though he is a subversion of Robin] that's more curtesy than Tim fans have given Damian or Duke.

Tim Drake is favoured. The fact that he is back to Robin when a more popular character is already in role is proof enough. Jason Todd barely gets any feature time, Dick Grayson is fighting to keep his head and Damian isn't even handled by the batman editoral. Who did DC take the tie to features alongside their biggest star in one of their widely read titles? Tim Drake. The least popular of the Robins that's who we should features for over 2 years. Even after that push failed. Who did DC pick to feature in their Walmart specials? is it the Current robin or the current young heroes? Nope. It's Tim. Who has been chosen to be the face of DC young heroes. The smash hit Superson's or any fresh young stars? Nope it's forever16 Tim Drake and his band of 90's bro's. The same ones they tried to launch as the face of young Dc in the new 52 that failed.

What is on paper contradicts what we are supposed to believe about Tim. He isn't the physically inferior Robin. He is a Meta human. A fantastical Power Fantasy.

[Konja7]

Well, that's exagerated.

DC doesn't want to lose Tim, because they find the character is still profitable. Tim probably can't mantain a solo today, but his presence still can help a team superhero comic.


Also, Bendis say it was his own desire to use Young Justice generation (he wants to bring Bart and Conner back):
https://www.thecomiclounge.com/singl...onquer-the-DCU

[Fergus]

Well, that's exagerated.

DC doesn't want to lose Tim, because they find the character is still profitable. Tim probably can't mantain a solo today, but his presence still can help a team superhero comic.


Also, Bendis say it was his own desire to use Young Justice generation (he wants to bring Bart and Conner back):
https://www.thecomiclounge.com/singl...onquer-the-DCU

Lots of characters are more profitable and they are not getting chance after chance. Bendis is the excuse this time but he is new an this trend isn't new. They don;t want to lose a profitable character jeez I wish they would feel that way about character who are even more profitable than Drake.
Characters who are carrying titles that they are crapping on.

If only Dick Grayson was profitable the nightwing book would have more effort put into it. If only Damian could sell books he might get to pushed. If only Jason was popular and having actually having a moment right now DC could strike and build on current momentum and goodwill but they are none of those thing's and since they don't have Bendis they don't get chance after chance after chance.


How many of the Robins have had the chances Tim has? This is his 2nd push in Rebirth alone. He keeps falling and they keep propping him up. What about supporting the ones who are improving or delivering? Tim Drake is very lucky indeed.

[oasis1313]

Lots of characters are more profitable and they are not getting chance after chance. Bendis is the excuse this time but he is new an this trend isn't new. They don;t want to lose a profitable character jeez I wish they would feel that way about character who are even more profitable than Drake.
Characters who are carrying titles that they are crapping on.

If only Dick Grayson was profitable the nightwing book would have more effort put into it. If only Damian could sell books he might get to pushed. If only Jason was popular and having actually having a moment right now DC could strike and build on current momentum and goodwill but they are none of those thing's and since they don't have Bendis they don't get chance after chance after chance.


How many of the Robins have had the chances Tim has? This is his 2nd push in Rebirth alone. He keeps falling and they keep propping him up. What about supporting the ones who are improving or delivering? Tim Drake is very lucky indeed.

I would say that any Bat-Character is an asset to any team they're on. However, by your logic above, DC wouldn't want to lose Dick--he can and does maintain a solo book--YET the Publisher has incessantly tried to kill him off and, discouraged from that by a loud and passionate pack of customers, he has poured crap on Dick's four-colored head for ages, and there's no sign of THAT slowing up in the foreseeable future. Isn't he profitable? I would appreciate it if one of our Tim fans can explain in a kind and gentle way to us all why Tim is so much more deserving of editorial/creative love than Dick, Jason, and Damian.

I feel there is a lot going on that we haven't discussed and I want to bring it out into the open now. The Walmart special books are a HUGE deal. There is a Walmart in almost every town in America--if not most of the world. There is the potential here for MILLIONS of comics to be sold; people who would never make the trek to a comics shop will be picking up this book. Why was Tim chosen to be the Poster Boy for it? Why not the iconic household word character Dick Grayson? Why not the troubled, dramatic Jason Todd? Why not Batman's own biological son???!!! To go a little further, I would find it delightful if DC used this MAJOR opportunity to use Steph--a mass market Girl Wonder. Who WOULDN'T love that? I'd make the pilgrimage to Walmart for a Steph as Robin book; it would be a landmark book and be publicized from here to Pluto. If I wanted to make some money with this Walmart mega-deal, I would put forth Stephanie as Robin--all the world's news channels would pick it up and it would break the internet. I'm saying this objectively; my love for Dick, Jason, and Damian should never be in any doubt on this forum--if left to my own choice (trust me, Walmart doesn't care; they'll use whatever the funnybook company gives them), it would be one of those three, BUT if profit was my sole objective, I would use Steph. Robin is an American icon, as well known as Batman himself.

So, why was Tim chosen for this honor and opportunity? Despite the cash on the tablet, can you confidently say there's no editorial/creative fanboy agenda here? Looking at the age of Bendis (51, thanks, wikipedia), he falls within Tim's fan age cohort when he was a young adult, unless he was collecting a whole lot of back issues (which, clearly, he wasn't). Bendis is a Timming. (I made that up just now because it rhymes with Lemming). Within a few months, I predict there will be no escaping Tim Drake.

[Konja7]

I would say that any Bat-Character is an asset to any team they're on. However, by your logic above, DC wouldn't want to lose Dick--he can and does maintain a solo book--YET the Publisher has incessantly tried to kill him off and, discouraged from that by a loud and passionate pack of customers, he has poured crap on Dick's four-colored head for ages, and there's no sign of THAT slowing up in the foreseeable future. Isn't he profitable? I would appreciate it if one of our Tim fans can explain in a kind and gentle way to us all why Tim is so much more deserving of editorial/creative love than Dick, Jason, and Damian.

I feel there is a lot going on that we haven't discussed and I want to bring it out into the open now. The Walmart special books are a HUGE deal. There is a Walmart in almost every town in America--if not most of the world. There is the potential here for MILLIONS of comics to be sold; people who would never make the trek to a comics shop will be picking up this book. Why was Tim chosen to be the Poster Boy for it? Why not the iconic household word character Dick Grayson? Why not the troubled, dramatic Jason Todd? Why not Batman's own biological son???!!! To go a little further, I would find it delightful if DC used this MAJOR opportunity to use Steph--a mass market Girl Wonder. Who WOULDN'T love that? I'd make the pilgrimage to Walmart for a Steph as Robin book; it would be a landmark book and be publicized from here to Pluto. If I wanted to make some money with this Walmart mega-deal, I would put forth Stephanie as Robin--all the world's news channels would pick it up and it would break the internet. I'm saying this objectively; my love for Dick, Jason, and Damian should never be in any doubt on this forum--if left to my own choice (trust me, Walmart doesn't care; they'll use whatever the funnybook company gives them), it would be one of those three, BUT if profit was my sole objective, I would use Steph. Robin is an American icon, as well known as Batman himself.

So, why was Tim chosen for this honor and opportunity? Despite the cash on the tablet, can you confidently say there's no editorial/creative fanboy agenda here? Looking at the age of Bendis (51, thanks, wikipedia), he falls within Tim's fan age cohort when he was a young adult, unless he was collecting a whole lot of back issues (which, clearly, he wasn't). Bendis is a Timming. (I made that up just now because it rhymes with Lemming). Within a few months, I predict there will be no escaping Tim Drake.

In the interview, Bendis seems to really like Young Justice. He seems more interested on Conner, but Tim is included on the Young Justice group.

DC need to save Tim, because they want to obtain profit from the character. They can't profit from Tim, while he's on the limbo.

However, they don't need to save Dick, because he isn't on danger (not the danger DC care), since the character is still present and they obtain profit from him. I don't think Dick will be sent to the limbo for almost a complete year, right?


I've understood that Didio think Tim is boring, so I don't think he helps Tim either.


PS: I don't know what is the Wallmart, but I would vote for Stephanie too.

[oasis1313]

In the interview, Bendis seems to really like Young Justice. He seems more interested on Conner, but Tim is included on the Young Justice group.
DC need to save Tim, because they want to obtain profit from the character. They can't profit from Tim, while he's on the limbo.
However, they don't need to save Dick, because he isn't on danger (not the danger DC care), since the character is still present and they obtain profit from him. I don't think Dick will be sent to the limbo for almost a complete year, right?
I've understood that Didio think Tim is boring, so I don't think he helps Tim either.


PS: I don't know what is the Wallmart, but I would vote for Stephanie too.

A comic book character, while it could be considered "inventory", is a little different breed of cat. Let's say I own a company and I sell dolls. I have to warehouse the physical items, pay taxes on that inventory, and all the associated costs of housing them (rent, janitorial help, etc etc) until I can sell them and ship them out, also called "carrying costs." Tim Drake is an idea, intellectual property--he costs nothing to maintain; a comic book character can be used liberally or shelved indefinitely--with no carrying costs at all. He's not in a "publish or perish" situation; I can haul him out of Limbo any time I feel like it, tax-free, and "sell" him in the form of paper or digital material. Sure, I have to pay the help, buy the paper and ink, and hope I sell enough of it to make some money. But Tim himself--like any comics character--is free money. The point I was making earlier is that almost any other Robin would sell this high print volume book a lot better than Tim Drake would. Yet DC panders to Bendis on the gamble that his Young Justice revival will sell more books than one of the biggest comic book mass marketing gimmicks ever.

As for Didio, action talks and BS walks. Saying Tim is boring one time at a con means nothing--he was blowing smoke at the audience just to get a reaction out of them. Look at what he's done, and I will start with the most recent events: Tynion is assigned Detective--he would not be allowed to write it "as a love letter to Tim Drake"--let alone SAY it in an interview--without Didio's permission. His return is a great big fat EVENT, in which the rest of the Bat-Family holds up the scenery for the further glory of Tim Drake. NOW Didio appears to have hired an even bigger Tim fanboy than Tynion--with Bendis. The Robin identity--Damian's birthright--is being stripped and handed back to Tim on a silver platter (no, let's make that a GOLD platter). Didio has complained about how he hates Dick Grayson for years, and he has acted on that, more than once. Jason and Damian aren't doing much better. I am saying that editorial bias is so weighted in favor of Drake that the DC bosses are--essentially--Timmings.

[nhienphan2808]

Look i have my things to say about Tim as NOT a a fan but I dont think this is the place to bash him. For me his character stopped being consistent or making sense once the 2000s come just like Bruce, Dick, or Jason. Young justice is last best book and shows you how he works in a team.

Another thing about Dick and Jason is, as much a disaster RIC Grayson is, i dont think he acts like Jason at all. he acts like a Dick that lost his memory. I see everyone says he is like a Jason but that missed the point of both characters. "Edgy" doesn't mean you are a Jason. Jason as his most edgy and even brain dead still looked for Bruce and demand attention and still hates abusers and want to kill them because that's what he really believes in. Dick doesn't have such a solid cause or a need to look for people. I think he lived for people and the greator good (keep Batman's things running smoothly) too much he forgot to live for himself, and fans also forgot he can be selfish. Now that he lost his memories he finally can breath. As teens you can already see the difference though both are rebels : Dick is "dont stick your nose in my business Bruce and dont control me", Jason is "I believe in a thing and im better than you. Notice me Bruce. Why you no love me".

Jason loves Bruce and his mother because that's who he is regardless of who they are and he expects they treat him the same. Dick loves you because you are a good person that fits his certain standards and also need him. To MBTI nerds, that's the diference between Fi and Fe. Actually Rick act like a unhealthy ROY (ESTP)