How is krakoa actually getting money for the drugs?

[Big Joe]

Does Krakoa actually need money to function though? You can’t really buy property and the island is self-sufficient so they don’t need to buy food.

Well, in fact, what you're saying is does a country need to follow market economics. You're point is very interesting, and goes directly to the heart of capitalism in my view. Can a country actually cut itself off from the world and go it's own way? It's got to be possible as long as the country produces everything the citizens need. Problems arise when people want rather than need, and if what they want is not produced at home. Then they need money, or something else to trade to obtain those items.

So from the point of view of functioning in a very basic way, I would say no, they need no money. But to function in a higher way then yes they do in current world circumstances.

Fascinating point. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Gigantor]

Does Krakoa actually need money to function though? You can’t really buy property and the island is self-sufficient so they don’t need to buy food.

If we are to assume there are as many mutants living ok krakoa as the data pages say and we assume food and shelter was built by krakoa himself that still leaves service labor. Cooking, cleaning, maintenance. Does krakoa fix your toilet? (Side note does Krakoa let you have a toilet?) if not someone has to do it. Even if the economy is life energy in exchange for Krakoa giving you everything. Should everyone pay the same amount of energy even if they don’t demand as much? There is an economy at play here

[Gigantor]

They need to buy iphones and the latest trends.

That’s another point. How much internet access is on krakoa and is it being filtered cause it’s said that people don’t know about the council or the five but if people start coming back from the dead and posting on Twitter people are going to know on xos tarot mentioned she had a human brother. How much does he know about Krakoa? It all gets out there

[Big Joe]

It was said that you cannot own anything on Krakoa, so bars and infrastructures are not owned by anyone. Leah Williams called it a happy communist society or something on this line.

Emma asked to be the sole distributor for Hellfire, so I guess the Company is not Krakoa based either. Like all the other Xavier companies.

Cool. So state owned, and not for profit I imagine. So what we're getting is the beginnings of a society, although starting from a much more advanced level.

Problems are coming then. Will, say Blob, be happy serving bar whilst some other mutants just sit round getting hammered? There are people working (effectively for the state) and people doing nothing. Will there be petty jealousies? Human nature says yes. Therefore those working will need to be rewarded somehow, or work should be found for everyone who wants to work.

I can see where it's kind of like a socialist, or communist, utopia. But does that kind of society work on the first step away from market run capitalism.

Interestingly from the point of view of the happy communist society you mention, the initial signs of breakdown are there already. I'm hoping those administering companies off the island (Emma and Xavier as we've both mentioned) aren't using any of the profits for personal gain, that could create issues down the line.

Thanks for your excellent reply, this thread is really making me appreciate the books all the more.

[Killerbee911]

I'm happy this has been brought up, to me it's a really interesting discussion.

It is interesting point of island nation where zero of the economic structure is on it but it was back by some horrible points that aren't true of the situation. Yeah a discussion on infrastructure and set up of Krakoa is interesting but it doesn't have be done with lies like Krakoan can't own property or don't follow world laws.

And how much do we know of the real world economy is transfer able to a living island that can make its own housing structures and group of people who collectively for example can make gold or diamonds. The rules have what have to happen doesn't real apply to this situation even though it is fun to think about how it should be set up.

[Gigantor]

Cool. So state owned, and not for profit I imagine. So what we're getting is the beginnings of a society, although starting from a much more advanced level.

Problems are coming then. Will, say Blob, be happy serving bar whilst some other mutants just sit round getting hammered? There are people working (effectively for the state) and people doing nothing. Will there be petty jealousies? Human nature says yes. Therefore those working will need to be rewarded somehow, or work should be found for everyone who wants to work.

I can see where it's kind of like a socialist, or communist, utopia. But does that kind of society work on the first step away from market run capitalism.

Interestingly from the point of view of the happy communist society you mention, the initial signs of breakdown are there already. I'm hoping those administering companies off the island (Emma and Xavier as we've both mentioned) aren't using any of the profits for personal gain, that could create issues down the line.

Thanks for your excellent reply, this thread is really making me appreciate the books all the more.

My god could we actually see controlled markets on krakoa? Assigned homes assigned food allotment, assigned tasks, now that would be interesting to see and discuss. Especially when the island is your landlord and your state

[Big Joe]

They need to buy iphones and the latest trends.

Need? Or want?

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand what you're saying. But at what point is a line drawn. Is every mutant on Krakoa entitled to everything they need? Everything they want? Or something in between?

[Lucyinthesky]

Well we have seen the characters shopping on other countries as well as paying for their drinks on Krakoa so my guess is that they do have a national currency, this means there must be someone in charge of their banks and of producing their currency we have just not seen them yet.

Most of the economy is actually controlled by Emma, Sebastian Shaw and Xavier but I expect once the story develops more people will add their own bussines like M or Angel who are in charge of X-corp.

As far as their economic system seems to be it looks mixed for me, they have state controlled health and food services but they can also choose to go to other places to buy what they need or want.

[Gigantor]

And how much do we know of the real world economy is transfer able to a living island that can make its own housing structures and group of people who collectively for example can make gold or diamonds. The rules have what have to happen doesn't real apply to this situation even though it is fun to think about how it should be set up.

Gold and diamonds don’t have intrinsic value. They are actually worthless, their “value” comes from rarity. We can already make artificial diamonds. They just have no value because they are common. So krakoa making gold and diamonds would actually lose them money

[Glio]

If we are to assume there are as many mutants living ok krakoa as the data pages say and we assume food and shelter was built by krakoa himself that still leaves service labor. Cooking, cleaning, maintenance. Does krakoa fix your toilet? (Side note does Krakoa let you have a toilet?) if not someone has to do it. Even if the economy is life energy in exchange for Krakoa giving you everything. Should everyone pay the same amount of energy even if they don’t demand as much? There is an economy at play here

Cooking and cleaning from what we have seen in the Sextant and Summers House is done autonomously by each family unit.

Of course we can take for granted that people like Emma or Shaw are not going to stoop to that but we have seen that Krakoa can build drones that perform simple tasks.

In your example the toilets are probably part of Krakoa and the island "recycles" mutant waste. However, much of the cleaning must be unnecessary in Krakoa. Why are you going to sweep or mop the floor? The floor is Krakoa, sure that it can absorb any substance that falls there and clean itself.

Krakoa is the first interested in keeping the mutants comfortable and happy. Small reforms are not an effort for them, they have mutant energy to spare.

[Big Joe]

My god could we actually see controlled markets on krakoa? Assigned homes assigned food allotment, assigned tasks, now that would be interesting to see and discuss. Especially when the island is your landlord and your state

Looks like you and me are thinking along very similar lines. Fascinating.

It just keeps giving this new direction, it could go on for years.

I guess the original poster never really expected the discussion to go this way, but your points further up about work and repairs etc was exactly what I was thinking about.

[WallStreeter]

Ok one more time krakoa sells drugs for money. And that money goes where? A big vault next to saber tooth? They don’t have currency on krakoa! They holding the money in bitcoins? Krakoa doesn’t have an economy. All the businesses they “own” they don’t own anymore because they changed the laws about mutants being immune to human laws. Like owning property. So technically krakoa is broke. They could be making billions of dollars trading the flower drugs but they have no actual way to spend the money. Your argument is businesses will do what the mutants say out of fear. Fear of what? They don’t have any money! Look I get it. The answer is “because the writer said so” it’s just frustrating because this is a story about building a nation and the parts about nation building are just hand waved. But fine Emma just mind controls all the banks. I answered my own question omg

Hellfire Trading Company is legally selling medicines that have saved lives, or help people get better. There would be no legal authority to seize their accounts.

[Gigantor]

Looks like you and me are thinking along very similar lines. Fascinating.

It just keeps giving this new direction, it could go on for years.

I guess the original poster never really expected the discussion to go this way, but your points further up about work and repairs etc was exactly what I was thinking about.

I am the original poster

[Big Joe]

Well we have seen the characters shopping on other countries as well as paying for their drinks on Krakoa so my guess is that they do have a national currency, this means there must be someone in charge of their banks and of producing their currency we have just not seen them yet.

Most of the economy is actually controlled by Emma, Sebastian Shaw and Xavier but I expect once the story develops more people will add their own bussines like M or Angel who are in charge of X-corp.

As far as their economic system seems to be it looks mixed for me, they have state controlled health and food services but they can also choose to go to other places to buy what they need or want.

Check out my earlier post about currency. They won't necessarily have, or need their own currency or bank. They could be using a friendly nation's currency, an, or, be pegged to another currency for the time being. That would mean that they also have a fixed rate of exchange based on the stronger currency.

If they've gone their own way already (I assume Tempo would be able to make it possible), trading in their currency could have been mentally controlled for it to make vast amounts of money.

Really interesting stuff this.

[Veitha]

Cool. So state owned, and not for profit I imagine. So what we're getting is the beginnings of a society, although starting from a much more advanced level.

Problems are coming then. Will, say Blob, be happy serving bar whilst some other mutants just sit round getting hammered? There are people working (effectively for the state) and people doing nothing. Will there be petty jealousies? Human nature says yes. Therefore those working will need to be rewarded somehow, or work should be found for everyone who wants to work.

I can see where it's kind of like a socialist, or communist, utopia. But does that kind of society work on the first step away from market run capitalism.

Interestingly from the point of view of the happy communist society you mention, the initial signs of breakdown are there already. I'm hoping those administering companies off the island (Emma and Xavier as we've both mentioned) aren't using any of the profits for personal gain, that could create issues down the line.

Thanks for your excellent reply, this thread is really making me appreciate the books all the more.

Yeah human nature would make this very hard. There's a couple things that differentiate them though, such as psychic powers/being able to get into each other minds and understand each other better, or Resurrections. Forge is also working on automatons so I guess that smething like serving a bar could be automated. I think that if I were a Krakoan I'd feel the need to do some kind of job after a while, though.

They also ask mutants that arrive on the island if they want to train or join X-Corps as interns, which is about dealing with their money, so they're probably opening up more jobs as time goes on.

I love the points you've raised too