Stephanie Brown: Spoiler, Robin, Batgirl Appreciation 2020

[millernumber1]

They didn't, because Didio.

That said, I'm not so much interested in woulda coulda shoulda, and am now interested in “what next?” Now that Didio is out of the way and repairs can be made (until the new bosses step in and screw everything up again), what can be done to fix things?

Well, I think that one of the big things that could be next is the idea of Steph (and Cass) being part of the "Batgirls" under Babs's mentorship/training. And I think that would be really good for them.

I do enjoy historical analysis, even when I lived through the history, but it depends on how helpful that analysis is.

[Frontier]

It seems that someone added the batsymbol in one Steph image that I am unable to remember now..

Attachment 101015

This image source pinterest:

https://www.google.com/search?q=step...rVl3EbWJP2JRoM

millernumber1 I think that this image would be worthy to be in the first post of the future STEPHANIE BROWN 2021 APPRECIATION

I like it as a hologram better than I do a physical logo on the suit.

[DropOfSaturn]

I'm hoping that when Death Metal is done and the new timeline is established, they'll say that everything happened, including Stephanie's Batgirl run. The easiest way to make it all work was demonstrated in Speed Metal: Jay is back, but even with his return, he's still been gone: he wasn't around for Flash War, and had to be told about it by those who were there. How does that translate to Stephanie? Simple: recast Dr. Manhattan's theft of a decade as “merely” memory alteration: it all happened; but from just after the end of her Batgirl run until “now”, everyone's memories were altered and have just been restored.

From what we've been able to glean over the past year or so (and granted, this could all change at the drop of a hat), they're okay with acknowledging that she was briefly Robin, but that they have no plans to fit her time as Batgirl into the timeline at all. If I had to guess what the near future will look like based on what little we have to work with across the board, Cass will officially be Batgirl under Bab's me mentorship, and Steph will be largely unchanged from how she is now. Or maybe they'll keep the Bendis method going, where she kinda just headcanons that she was Batgirl/Robin without actually rememberong either.

Honestly though, it's DC, so don't expect any clear idea of any character's history for a long time after Death Metal. I doubt they even know themselves yet.

[DropOfSaturn]

Wow my spelling is terrible today, sorry guys

[millernumber1]

From what we've been able to glean over the past year or so (and granted, this could all change at the drop of a hat), they're okay with acknowledging that she was briefly Robin, but that they have no plans to fit her time as Batgirl into the timeline at all. If I had to guess what the near future will look like based on what little we have to work with across the board, Cass will officially be Batgirl under Bab's me mentorship, and Steph will be largely unchanged from how she is now. Or maybe they'll keep the Bendis method going, where she kinda just headcanons that she was Batgirl/Robin without actually rememberong either.

Honestly though, it's DC, so don't expect any clear idea of any character's history for a long time after Death Metal. I doubt they even know themselves yet.

I hope for better things. That would feel really awful to me.

[Dataweaver]

You're referring to plans that were in place while Didio was running things. We've already seen deviations from this: the aforementioned Speed Metal is something that would never have been published under Didio's watch, for example. The leaked page featuring Stephanie and Cassandra with the Bat symbol on their costumes is another. The new timeline was also going to feed directly into 5G; now, 5G it's still happening, but only as a possible future akin to Kingdom Come or Future's End; not as “the new status quo”, as was originally planned.

With that in mind, I won't be a bit surprised if other aspects of the new timeline get changed. In particular, I won't be surprised at all if Stephanie's time as Batgirl gets put back into the timeline.

[Konja7]

From what we've been able to glean over the past year or so (and granted, this could all change at the drop of a hat), they're okay with acknowledging that she was briefly Robin, but that they have no plans to fit her time as Batgirl into the timeline at all. If I had to guess what the near future will look like based on what little we have to work with across the board, Cass will officially be Batgirl under Bab's me mentorship, and Steph will be largely unchanged from how she is now. Or maybe they'll keep the Bendis method going, where she kinda just headcanons that she was Batgirl/Robin without actually rememberong either.

Honestly though, it's DC, so don't expect any clear idea of any character's history for a long time after Death Metal. I doubt they even know themselves yet.

Honestly, I really doubt Cassandra will be the new official Batgirl. If they plan that Cassandra becomes Batgirl, they wouldn't make Cassandra to share the chapter where she gets her Batgirl suit with Stephanie.

The same reason why I've never expected Cassandra will be the only Batgirl with that preview for Batman #100. She sharing a panel with Spoiler doesn't seem the place for the new Batgirl.


That said, I would love if DC recognizing Stephanie's time as Robin means she will become Robin again, but I really doubt this happen.

[Dataweaver]

One thing about the “Team Batgirl” notion is that all four of them can go by the codename of Batgirl as their public persona, while having a separate, private codename for private communications. (Why not use their real names? Because you never know when the private communications will be hacked.)

There's Barbara Gordon, the Oracle Batgirl;
There's Cassandra Cain, the Orphan Batgirl*;
There's Stephanie Brown, the Spoiler Batgirl;
And there's Bette Kane, the Flamebird Batgirl.

(And you don't have to stop there; you could, for example, also have the Misfit Batgirl and the Flying Fox Batgirl.)

* or Black Bat, or whatever.

[millernumber1]

One thing about the “Team Batgirl” notion is that all four of them can go by the codename of Batgirl as their public persona, while having a separate, private codename for private communications. (Why not use their real names? Because you never know when the private communications will be hacked.)

* or Black Bat, or whatever.

There's Barbara Gordon, the Oracle Batgirl;
There's Cassandra Cain, the Orphan Batgirl*;
There's Stephanie Brown, the Spoiler Batgirl;
And there's Bette Kane, the Flamebird Batgirl.

(And you don't have to stop there; you could, for example, also have the Misfit Batgirl and the Flying Fox Batgirl.)

Well, they could do what Snyder/Tynion did in the n52 - "Penny One" and "Penny Two" - so you'd have "Cain One" and "Brown One".
:P

But I think that's a good point that points to being part of the "Batgirls" without being necessarily "Batgirl."

[Konja7]

One thing about the “Team Batgirl” notion is that all four of them can go by the codename of Batgirl as their public persona, while having a separate, private codename for private communications. (Why not use their real names? Because you never know when the private communications will be hacked.)

There's Barbara Gordon, the Oracle Batgirl;
There's Cassandra Cain, the Orphan Batgirl*;
There's Stephanie Brown, the Spoiler Batgirl;
And there's Bette Kane, the Flamebird Batgirl.

(And you don't have to stop there; you could, for example, also have the Misfit Batgirl and the Flying Fox Batgirl.)

* or Black Bat, or whatever.

Yeah. If there are many Batgirls, they will need independent codenames too. Not only when they have private communication, but when they work together with other Batfamily members.

[Dataweaver]

It's just like the Robins: with the possible exception of Damian, all of them have had different codenames. So you have the Nightwing Robin, the Red Hood Robin, the Red Robin Robin (the Drake Robin? 😓 Stephanie would kill him if he did that), the Spoiler Robin, and the Spoiled Robin — err, the current Robin. The Red X Robin, maybe?

[millernumber1]

It's just like the Robins: with the possible exception of Damian, all of them have had different codenames. So you have the Nightwing Robin, the Red Hood Robin, the Red Robin Robin (the Drake Robin? �� Stephanie would kill him if he did that), the Spoiler Robin, and the Spoiled Robin — err, the current Robin. The Red X Robin, maybe?

DUCKBOY!

Such a good line.

I am really amused and kind of excited by all the activity we have about Steph!

[Digifiend]

Yeah. If there are many Batgirls, they will need independent codenames too. Not only when they have private communication, but when they work together with other Batfamily members.

Yeah, this came up in Arrow. Curtis Holt (Mr Terrific) was in the Arrowcave with Felicity Smoak, but didn't know Oliver Queen and John Diggle's identities yet. Felicity had to invent the Spartan name for Diggle on the fly (had he been able to choose his own name, it would've probably been Freelancer, a name he previously used on an ARGUS mission). Soon after, Felicity got her own codename too, Overwatch - the reason being the concern over using civilian names on comms.

[ohfellow]

From what we've been able to glean over the past year or so (and granted, this could all change at the drop of a hat), they're okay with acknowledging that she was briefly Robin, but that they have no plans to fit her time as Batgirl into the timeline at all.

But didn't Detective #980 already say that there was a timeline where she was Batgirl? And Tim has remembered that timeline already. (Though he hasn't mentioned the Batgirl part.) So - it "happened." The paradoxes DC has been showing us over and over lately are that all of these things that have been written did happen, no matter how contradictory.

There's an epilogue in the Flash Forward collection that was not published in comic form, but perhaps was originally going to be in the Generation Zero free comic, where Wally West views a number of different versions of groups and heroes, "shards of inconsistencies from a reality toyed with over and over." Doomsday Clock put out similar ideas. And I feel like we have seen similar scenes in several different titles lately, though I can't easily cite them. A scene where there are different versions of Teen Titans, each forming as if for the first time.

I do think Steph's history as Batgirl will probably be referenced again at some point.

You can say "Well, but it was some other timeline, not *this* one." But - no one timeline is superior to any other. "This one" doesn't exist in some special way. Maybe "5G" was going to be an attempt to align all stories into some kind of consecutive history, but that has been abandoned in favor of "it all happened but has been tampered with over and over." In fiction, by Dr. Manhattan. In reality, by the editors of DC.

[ohfellow]

Batgirl 24 re-read thoughts:

Cover: love it. I feel like Nguyen has drawn a dozen similar montages, but they are always excellent.

Plot: finally, no significant complaints. Well, one: I don't see how it makes much sense that Cluemaster was behind the Reapers. How is any of that "avenging Steph," and how does it explain the Reaper chapter Gage belonged to some time back and in some other city?

But overall, I thought this issue was well balanced and tightly written. Well done to go straight from the prison cell to waking up in the hospital and a lovely scene with Crystal, then showing the hallucinations later as flashbacks.

Maybe the best untold story would be the League of Batgirls transported back to 1944, though I'd also like to see the Lanterns story.

That's a sweet moment with Damian looking on and saluting Steph - he's not the same Damian these days!

The last 2 pages have always given me chills, and the best line is "It's only the end if you want it to be," with Steph winking at the readers. I don't feel that it's an entirely original sentiment as a closing remark, but as a whole the scene works beautifully.

As for artists, it's probably a tie between Garbett and Perez, though I have to overlook the boots Perez draws.

The "Unsinkable" title works for Steph, and perhaps is deliberately invoking the Unsinkable Molly Brown.

Did DC let creators write "goodbyes" much in those days? I've seen very few at DC, and never more than a couple of words. Joshua Williamson just got to write one in the back of Flash #762.

In conclusion, I think this 2-part finale ends up elevating the entire series into the classic it might otherwise not have been. Sales usually dry up for the last couple of issues as soon as a final issue is announced, but I sometimes start buying titles just as they are ending, to see how well they stick the landing. It's the story where the writer gets to really emphasize their theme and reach for some emotional highs, and when well done you just choke up.