Official : Bendis gets both books

[Ascended]

I think they've done great things while dealing with the limitations of the direct market, and sidestepping it where they can. I'm very curious to see what they could do without those confines. They're taking steps in the right direction with digital and the bookstore/Scholastic stuff, and I really want to see them abandon the DM and expand/change their distribution model.

What would comics look like, if DC stopped following the out-dated floppy/monthly DM model?

It might become a worthwhile industry again, instead of just an IP farm for bigger media.

[Atlas]

The problem isn't the direct market or monthly publishing, it's exposure outside of those formats. DC always seems to half-ass the thing they need to do most. They have packs of comics sold for $5 at WalMart, but they're in a section frequented by people not interested in comic books to begin with because they don't really know what they are. DC needs to publish regular digests that combine reprint material with new material aimed at all ages and an affordable price. These digests need to be EVERYWHERE kids go or ask to go in a brick and mortar store: the toy section, video game and movie sections, clothing sections near the superhero clothing, by the superhero toothbrushes and blankets and pillows, and even by snacks with superhero movie promotions. They also need to be in every checkout aisle right by the candy and soda most kids beg their parents for.

The industry needs to hook kids as new readers who will grow into lifelong readers. Marvel has a digest program but their digests are maybe in a few checkout lanes and that's it. There's no cross-promotional synergy going on and that's the problem. My daughters both love to read and would love to get a digest of comic book stories with heroes they know and love from cartoons and film. They love Teen Titans Go! (despite my hatred for it) and the MCU. Like most parents, I'd rather buy my kids something to read instead of yet another toy or more junk food.

As long the industry continues to cater to people they've had in their pockets for decades, they will continue to lose money and interest. When I was a kid, I loved comics and got my friends interested and they in turn got other family and friends interested. That sense of community and shared interest among kids is all but gone now. Young reader OGNs and limited series are great ideas, but how successful can they be if they're only at Barnes And Noble or some other bookstore? They need to be omnipresent in brick and mortar stores, including grocery stores. I frequently see displays for superhero movies, especially new releases. Put digests or other self-contained content next to those displays and you'll very likely create a new comic book reader. Otherwise, you're just supporting the IPs themselves on video.

[The Dying Detective]

The problem isn't the direct market or monthly publishing, it's exposure outside of those formats. DC always seems to half-ass the thing they need to do most. They have packs of comics sold for $5 at WalMart, but they're in a section frequented by people not interested in comic books to begin with because they don't really know what they are. DC needs to publish regular digests that combine reprint material with new material aimed at all ages and an affordable price. These digests need to be EVERYWHERE kids go or ask to go in a brick and mortar store: the toy section, video game and movie sections, clothing sections near the superhero clothing, by the superhero toothbrushes and blankets and pillows, and even by snacks with superhero movie promotions. They also need to be in every checkout aisle right by the candy and soda most kids beg their parents for.

The industry needs to hook kids as new readers who will grow into lifelong readers. Marvel has a digest program but their digests are maybe in a few checkout lanes and that's it. There's no cross-promotional synergy going on and that's the problem. My daughters both love to read and would love to get a digest of comic book stories with heroes they know and love from cartoons and film. They love Teen Titans Go! (despite my hatred for it) and the MCU. Like most parents, I'd rather buy my kids something to read instead of yet another toy or more junk food.

As long the industry continues to cater to people they've had in their pockets for decades, they will continue to lose money and interest. When I was a kid, I loved comics and got my friends interested and they in turn got other family and friends interested. That sense of community and shared interest among kids is all but gone now. Young reader OGNs and limited series are great ideas, but how successful can they be if they're only at Barnes And Noble or some other bookstore? They need to be omnipresent in brick and mortar stores, including grocery stores. I frequently see displays for superhero movies, especially new releases. Put digests or other self-contained content next to those displays and you'll very likely create a new comic book reader. Otherwise, you're just supporting the IPs themselves on video.

So it comes down to promotion in the end I guess that's why the comic book indutry is failing badly. I wonder what about the content should that be a problem for kids? Well technically they should but how much of it is a problem I wonder?

[JasonTodd428]

The problem isn't the direct market or monthly publishing, it's exposure outside of those formats. DC always seems to half-ass the thing they need to do most. They have packs of comics sold for $5 at WalMart, but they're in a section frequented by people not interested in comic books to begin with because they don't really know what they are. DC needs to publish regular digests that combine reprint material with new material aimed at all ages and an affordable price. These digests need to be EVERYWHERE kids go or ask to go in a brick and mortar store: the toy section, video game and movie sections, clothing sections near the superhero clothing, by the superhero toothbrushes and blankets and pillows, and even by snacks with superhero movie promotions. They also need to be in every checkout aisle right by the candy and soda most kids beg their parents for.

The industry needs to hook kids as new readers who will grow into lifelong readers. Marvel has a digest program but their digests are maybe in a few checkout lanes and that's it. There's no cross-promotional synergy going on and that's the problem. My daughters both love to read and would love to get a digest of comic book stories with heroes they know and love from cartoons and film. They love Teen Titans Go! (despite my hatred for it) and the MCU. Like most parents, I'd rather buy my kids something to read instead of yet another toy or more junk food.

As long the industry continues to cater to people they've had in their pockets for decades, they will continue to lose money and interest. When I was a kid, I loved comics and got my friends interested and they in turn got other family and friends interested. That sense of community and shared interest among kids is all but gone now. Young reader OGNs and limited series are great ideas, but how successful can they be if they're only at Barnes And Noble or some other bookstore? They need to be omnipresent in brick and mortar stores, including grocery stores. I frequently see displays for superhero movies, especially new releases. Put digests or other self-contained content next to those displays and you'll very likely create a new comic book reader. Otherwise, you're just supporting the IPs themselves on video.

I used to work in retail and to be honest the people that own and manage grocery stores and the like give shelf space to things that are going to sell and sell big. In other words things that are guaranteed to make them money. Comics (and even things like magazines and books) just are not huge sellers for places like that anymore so they don't waste the space for them. I've seen the magazine area in our local grocery stores shrink over the years until its practically nonexistent. We've also had stores that did attempt some of what you are suggesting by placing comics near their relevant toys but even that had a very limited amount of sales and it wasn't enough sales for the stores to justify continuing with the practice. Also candy, chips and sodas are priced lower than even an Archie Digest is so I'm not sure which the parent in that scenario would chose. For myself I'm not very likely to buy any of it in that scenario because I'm usually in the store for specific items and that's all I buy. I don't often make impulse buys from the checkout line.

Personally I am of the opinion that new fans, much like new readers of regular books, come about just as much through friends and family exposing them to comics themselves as through exposure to it in a store. I'm also of the opinion that those kids that have read a few comics likely have done so through things like the local library were they can access them for free in trade format.

[Ascended]

So it comes down to promotion in the end I guess that's why the comic book indutry is failing badly. I wonder what about the content should that be a problem for kids? Well technically they should but how much of it is a problem I wonder?

I don't think promotion is quite the issue. It's *a* issue, but I don't believe it's among the biggest ones. As long as these characters are appearing in big budget movies, the properties are being advertised (after a fashion) and a potential fan researching a movie's character will find their way to the print side of things easily enough in their search. It's not ideal at all, but it's serviceable for now.

Distribution is, I believe, somewhere in the Top 3 problems the industry has. Hobby shops are usually small, don't advertise, and cater to established fans. Assuming a person even has a LCS nearby, there's usually not any way to make that person aware of the store, they're often out of the way......basically, if you want to find a LCS you need to put some effort into it, and most people who're casually interested won't invest that kind of time. And that's assuming there even *is* a LCS in their region. And we've all heard stories about poorly run hobby shops chasing new business away.

Brick and mortar shops, including retail and bookstores, could do more to advertise and carry a wider selection.....but we're in an age of Internet shopping where most kids don't care about anything unless it's on a screen, so this isn't going to amount to very much in the grand scheme of things. Does your screaming kid want a comic in the grocery store to keep them quiet? No, they want a new phone app. Additionally, most stores that carry a varied selection of magazines and comics don't pick what they get; they just get a box full of books and put them on the shelf. And even if they did get to control what came in from their print distributors, you'd be asking them to invest in a dying sub-industry within the dying print industry. Most business owners won't see the value.

Physical shops (and physical books) simply aren't the solution.

But even if you manage to get a potential new fan aware of the published work and they find a way to get that product (likely digitally, looking at sales trajectories), the production method is likely going to be a problem. Twenty pages once a month for $3-5? That's a big hurdle. Even if the price isn't an issue for a new fan, the release schedule probably will be. In today's world, a monthly release is just too damn slow. Hell, even I forget what's happened between issues sometimes. Twice-monthly shipping is a step in the right direction, but I'd suggest cutting the page count down and releasing issues weekly. Five-ish pages for a dollar each week will net you about a dollar over the usual cover price for the same amount of content and keep your product fresh in audiences' minds, which may result in lower sales attrition over time and even higher unit sales across the long-term.

As for the kid content.....that's a tricky one. And also probably somewhere in the top 3 big problems comics face. Because you have to start designing your product to appeal to kids, but you can't lose the adult audience that's been keeping the industry going for the last thirty years. I think DC might have the right idea though; imprints based on age that run from young children up to fully mature content, and accounts for the teens and tweens in between. Less focus on a singular, all-important continuity in favor of quality stories aimed at particular age brackets. That should, in theory, allow a fan to rise up through the imprints as they age.

But this is all just conjecture. I'm into business, but not the print industry, so I'm just making educated guesses here.

[RepHope]

Part of the problem is what you pay for what you get. You pay $3-4 for around 35 minutes of entertainment (at most), when most kids could be playing Fortnite or League of Legends for free. Floppies are terrible for getting people into comics because of the perceived poor return on entertainment for payment.

[SiegePerilous02]

Part of the problem is what you pay for what you get. You pay $3-4 for around 35 minutes of entertainment (at most), when most kids could be playing Fortnite or League of Legends for free. Floppies are terrible for getting people into comics because of the perceived poor return on entertainment for payment.

More like 5 (if that).

You have to pay like $24-30 to get a half hour out of a small stack of monthlies.

[Ascended]

Price is definitely a problem. And I don't think there's much that can be done about that unless publishers are willing to abandon their offices and all the overhead that comes with their corporate structure.

You could outsource production to another country. That's always the go-to answer for business if automation isn't an option; send your work overseas where pay rates and regulations are all lower. But I'm not sure if that's even applicable in this industry; does an artist in Scotland get paid less than an artist in New York? I assume page rates are decided by other factors than region, such as skill, experience, and name recognition.

You could remove members of your production team. Hire artists who can do their own coloring, inking, and/or lettering. Or some combination thereof. We do have writer-artists in the industry, as well as artists who do all the work without need for inkers and colorers (like Sejic). You'll pay that individual more, but still less than you'd pay two people. However, that's going to impact your production time values and people will need even longer head-starts on projects, and probably require more fill-ins. And this would necessitate losing a lot of fan favorite creators, which won't help in the short-term at all.

You could hide the price point behind a different distribution method, as I mentioned in the above post. A five page issue shipped weekly will still get you twenty pages, near the current price point, but the consumer might not notice because they're paying less at a time. Nickle and dime economics at their best, I suppose. Still, eventually people will realize that they spent five bucks on twenty pages and wonder if they should budget more responsibly.

The only alternative I can see that might make the price point more worthwhile would be bonus content. Not more pages or anything, but "extras" perhaps not unlike what you get on a blu-ray. Maybe when you buy an issue of Superman you also get access to Clark Kent's online blog, and that will have interesting little side stories that tie into the main narrative in some way. Or exclusive interviews with the creators where they actually answer some questions. Now, you'd still have to pay to have this extra content created and/or published, but if you rolled it into an editor's duties it wouldn't end up costing the publisher much more than they're already spending (I'm sure the editors wouldn't be happy but they'd just have to cope). And as an added accounting benefit, administrators and managers are never considered in product cost analysis so as far as your balance sheets are concerned those added bonus features, created by your editors, are "free."

[Flash Gordon]

Creators should be getting paid more, not less.

I really don't mind paying more for a comic book if that means the creative people that I enjoy are being taken care of.

Perhaps I'm a bit different because I come to comics for comics, so the characters and concepts that populate the world of comics being in other media doesn't really excite me. Seeing Superman fly around on screen is always cool, but it isn't all that important to me.

There's always room in my diet for a good ole superhero adventure comic with giant apes and world ending calamity. Not everything needs to be groundbreaking, but I do lean more towards the innovative stuff. The stuff that NEEDS to be a comic.

I'm not sure if American audiences would ever accept album style comics, but it would be interesting. I'm not sure it would work for mainstream superhero books. Cover to cover Ivan Reis Aquaman art does sound drool worthy though.

[Ascended]

Creators should be getting paid more, not less.

I really don't mind paying more for a comic book if that means the creative people that I enjoy are being taken care of.

I can pretty much promise you that any price increase comics have ever seen, the creators saw very little extra income come their way. Such is how it always goes for the people on the production room floor. That extra money stays with the owners and administrators and gets reinvested (or turned into big corporate bonuses).

Now, if I knew that a price increase was going directly to the talent? I wouldn't mind it too much either. But dude, we're already here. We're not going anywhere. And price is already one of the hurdles a new fan has to jump; I'd rather see prices go down. I think it'd actually even result in more money for the publisher, if they juggled it right and combined it with a solid push for new audiences.

[RepHope]

I can pretty much promise you that any price increase comics have ever seen, the creators saw very little extra income come their way. Such is how it always goes for the people on the production room floor. That extra money stays with the owners and administrators and gets reinvested (or turned into big corporate bonuses).

Now, if I knew that a price increase was going directly to the talent? I wouldn't mind it too much either. But dude, we're already here. We're not going anywhere. And price is already one of the hurdles a new fan has to jump; I'd rather see prices go down. I think it'd actually even result in more money for the publisher, if they juggled it right and combined it with a solid push for new audiences.

I'm thinking this is Marvel's reasoning for all the $0.99 sales of trades on Comixology. I'm curious to know if it's working, they're selling more trades for sure, but I'm not sure it's actually netting them more profit.

[The Dying Detective]

I don't think promotion is quite the issue. It's *a* issue, but I don't believe it's among the biggest ones. As long as these characters are appearing in big budget movies, the properties are being advertised (after a fashion) and a potential fan researching a movie's character will find their way to the print side of things easily enough in their search. It's not ideal at all, but it's serviceable for now.

Distribution is, I believe, somewhere in the Top 3 problems the industry has. Hobby shops are usually small, don't advertise, and cater to established fans. Assuming a person even has a LCS nearby, there's usually not any way to make that person aware of the store, they're often out of the way......basically, if you want to find a LCS you need to put some effort into it, and most people who're casually interested won't invest that kind of time. And that's assuming there even *is* a LCS in their region. And we've all heard stories about poorly run hobby shops chasing new business away.

Brick and mortar shops, including retail and bookstores, could do more to advertise and carry a wider selection.....but we're in an age of Internet shopping where most kids don't care about anything unless it's on a screen, so this isn't going to amount to very much in the grand scheme of things. Does your screaming kid want a comic in the grocery store to keep them quiet? No, they want a new phone app. Additionally, most stores that carry a varied selection of magazines and comics don't pick what they get; they just get a box full of books and put them on the shelf. And even if they did get to control what came in from their print distributors, you'd be asking them to invest in a dying sub-industry within the dying print industry. Most business owners won't see the value.

Physical shops (and physical books) simply aren't the solution.

But even if you manage to get a potential new fan aware of the published work and they find a way to get that product (likely digitally, looking at sales trajectories), the production method is likely going to be a problem. Twenty pages once a month for $3-5? That's a big hurdle. Even if the price isn't an issue for a new fan, the release schedule probably will be. In today's world, a monthly release is just too damn slow. Hell, even I forget what's happened between issues sometimes. Twice-monthly shipping is a step in the right direction, but I'd suggest cutting the page count down and releasing issues weekly. Five-ish pages for a dollar each week will net you about a dollar over the usual cover price for the same amount of content and keep your product fresh in audiences' minds, which may result in lower sales attrition over time and even higher unit sales across the long-term.

As for the kid content.....that's a tricky one. And also probably somewhere in the top 3 big problems comics face. Because you have to start designing your product to appeal to kids, but you can't lose the adult audience that's been keeping the industry going for the last thirty years. I think DC might have the right idea though; imprints based on age that run from young children up to fully mature content, and accounts for the teens and tweens in between. Less focus on a singular, all-important continuity in favor of quality stories aimed at particular age brackets. That should, in theory, allow a fan to rise up through the imprints as they age.

But this is all just conjecture. I'm into business, but not the print industry, so I'm just making educated guesses here.

Interesting take on the matter I've been listening to some independent publisher's thoughts on the matter admittedly he does seem to understand the issues plaguing the comic book industry mainly the issues of relaunching often for no particular reason but he's a really unreliable person who at times doesn't put much effort into researching a lot of other topics. Still I do hope you're right in better than him.

[Superlad93]

Anyone see this? It's the physical version of DC Nation #0 "Unknown Origins" ????

We know about the "undiscovered worlds" spinning out from metal, the "unexpected guest" (Joker) spinning out from the wedding, but who has the "unknown origins" in Man of Steel? Clark? That's an image of Krypton, right? This comes out before Man of Steel but after 1000, but things are supposed to spin out from Metal and Action 1000, and we end a year in the future at Doomsday Clock. Pretty fascinating time for DC. The structure and anticipation still get me.

[Last Son of Krypton]

"Unknown Origins"? Superman is a human mutant! :-P

[manofsteel1979]

"Unknown Origins"? Superman is a human mutant! :-P

I know you're joking...But I was thinking about this the other day after the end of Metal and it's implications. I've been mulling over that and Bendis' comments that his status quo shift would both build off of what Jurgens and Tomasi did, but also be the biggest change in Superman since Crisis.

I'm wondering if indeed Superman's Kryptonian alien origins may actually be called into question.

Think about the last two years of stories. He spent the first year's worth of stories trying to fit into a new world that from his perspective he was a strange visitor. After he was " fixed" he was still wrestling with identity issues somewhat with the Revelation that the mysterious Mr. Oz was actually his long thought dead father Jor-El. Add in the fact he is now also a father himself now,the father of a half human half Kryptonian hybrid whose powers emerging has been a struggle at times.

What if, subconsciously at the back of his mind, while he relishes being Superman and all that means, he wishes that wasn't tied up in an alien heritage that as of late has caused him distress and had inadvertently robbed the chance for his son to live a normal life?

What if the conceit of Bendis' run is actually an update of that 70's story , but instead of handwaving it away, they embrace what something like that would mean for Superman? What if because of what happened in Metal,KRYPTON still existed, but Superman/ Clark Kent learns that his origins may not actually originate there? What if indeed Superman discovers he may not be an alien after all?




That could explain why Jon is MIA in other books initially. He doesn't die or disappear , but because of the cosmic shift at the end of Metal he is without powers, because he's no longer half Kryptonian. It also would explain Bendis' comments about redefining Clark Kent and his life as a reporter and the increased focus on that aspect. That would also explain Supergirl's absence from her own title as if Clark's origins are altered it would also affect Kara. What does that Revelation do to someone who has strong memories of a planet she may not even be from? What if she's Kryptonian but he isn't? What does that do to their relationship?

Of course part of the mystery of it all would potentially be if Supes isn't Kryptonian or Alien, why did he arrive in a rocket ship...And why does he have powers of a Kryptonian? That could account for Lois' role in all of this? Perhaps she has a quest to find out the truth of Clark's existence, and why her son had powers, and she remembers her son having powers, but now he doesn't.Perhaps she discovers how this all ties to what happened in Metal?

This is just me spitballing and speculating, but the cover blerb to the DC Nation special, all of Bendis' talking about status quo changes and big bombshells being dropped that changes Superman status in the DCU and it all building off of the last two years of stories , and the implications of Metal, makes me wonder if this type of story is a possibility.

And of course, once Bendis' leaves, it's fairly easy to retcon it all back to " Kal-El did indeed come from KRYPTON" with some sort of continuity clean up in a few years.