Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Daedra]

We've seen Emma absorb ambient psychic energy in the air to psi blasts people. Exodus also has absorbed psychic energy from others to empower himself, akin to a psychic vampire. Don't believe Xavier has though. Jean definitely has been the most varied with the ability.

Jean was special because she converted raw psionic energy into telekinetic power.


This may be the closest thing Xavier ever did when it comes to psionic syphoning

[Omega_DCD]

There is no objective way to measure the skill of a character and you can't compare feats because they normally do very different things.

So this analogy serves for nothing other than to create silly misconceptions.

The idea that Jean would go with blunt force and traumatize a mind it's beyond absurd. She's the most caring and careful telepath around. But this sledgehammer stupidity brings about this kind of silly imagery that does not compute to the skill of the character, her personality or her disposition towards her own power.

Exactly...between Jean and Teen Jean we have her psychically help Psylocke(numerous times), Laura, Jessica Jones, and Gentle to name a few, and none of their minds have been ransacked and traumatized as if Jean is somehow the telepathic equivalent of a bull in a China shop. That is more fitting for early Nate Grey, when a mind probe or memory wipe had just as good a chance of causing permanent damage as the benign original intent. Seems Leah was being too cute by half in trying to overwrite people's impressions of each character with a lazy soundbite. Also, was the comparison suppose to invoke certain class implications? (Scalpel>Surgeon>White collar...Sledgehammer>Construction>Blue collar)

CORRECTION: Emma wishes she could bring a house down, lol. Emma fired a bolt at Jean to get her to stop absorbing her lifeforce. Period. She did not bring the house down. Jean freed and gathered a weakened Storm and safely flew them to the topside, wherein the PF Effect blasted the house to smithereens as they resurfaced.

Jean is an empath, a psi-sensitive. Of course a young woman in pain, especially mentally, would hurt Jean because Jean is so powerful.

Exactly, sensitivity, or in other words, being highly attuned, is more a show of strength than weakness. All telepaths have had moments of dealing with the pain backlash of others, including Emma herself when Husk had a forced metamorphosis





or when Baby Xavier hijacked the Cuckoos and used them to psychically torture a bunch of students, Emma's broken powers weren't broken enough to spare her that agony, as she says.

[Saturius]

Jean was special because she converted raw psionic energy into telekinetic power.


This may be the closest thing Xavier ever did when it comes to

I forgot that CadreK moment. That definitely counts. When you have comics that run for 70 years+it gets harder to be original I guess. I really did like Jean's pink form though. I wish writers brought it back. It was neat.

[Phoenixx9]

Jean was special because she converted raw psionic energy into telekinetic power.


This may be the closest thing Xavier ever did when it comes to psionic syphoning

To me, this is just Xavier focusing all of the peoples' emotions and sending them to Galactus. Sort of like what he did to Juggy one time when he said "feel all the pain and misery you have caused", only here it is an entire race. A powerful X feat for sure, but not the same as Jean's syphoning power.

[Daedra]

To me, this is just Xavier focusing all of the peoples' emotions and sending them to Galactus. Sort of like what he did to Juggy one time when he said "feel all the pain and misery you have caused", only here it is an entire race. A powerful X feat for sure, but not the same as Jean's syphoning power.

agreed (but one could make a case that all those wild emotions = raw unfocused psionic power) ..... Anyway I actually believe that Jean syphoning is on another level if not something else entirely, omega ability to manipulate psionic energy for the win!

[MechaJeanix]

CORRECTION: Emma wishes she could bring a house down, lol. Emma fired a bolt at Jean to get her to stop absorbing her lifeforce. Period. She did not bring the house down. Jean freed and gathered a weakened Storm and safely flew them to the topside, wherein the PF Effect blasted the house to smithereens as they resurfaced.

Jean is an empath, a psi-sensitive. Of course a young woman in pain, especially mentally, would hurt Jean because Jean is so powerful. However, Jean can easily shield herself from other people's thoughts, pain, etc. This was just an example of Jean needing to do so because she is so powerful that she can be sensitive to the mental pain of those around her. This is not a power example of emma's but of Jean for shutting it out.

I'm inclined to say you are right in that I don't see how Emma's power could bring down a house - though in the comics other telepaths' powers have had physical effects - Xavier has used his tp against Sentinels in the original days, Betsy's pyscho-blasts seem to have powerful physical effect at least potentially, etc . Plus I was just reading a scan of the fight and I would say it is unclear. I know some Emma fans use it as an example of Emma's telepathy being somewhat physical as it has been mentioned before that Emma brought down the house around Jean - of course later we would find out that Emma was left in pretty bad shape from that fight...

So until other evidence arises I am going to say right now it is unclear but I'm inclined to agree with you.

As for the psychic backlash ... you make a good argument but again unclear if it was just empathy or just like what was said, Emma's powerful attack caused the psychic backlash. I know we don't like giving Emma credit on this thread but the character is no slouch. Jean of course is the omega so we know how powerful she is. I can acknowledge how powerful some of the other telepaths are.

[Omega_DCD]

I view the Emma/Phoenix building incident like this...Emma went for broke using all her remaining telepathic power, and Jean overreacted(with both TP and TK) with a defensive parry...

Similar to Jean's defensive parry on the astral plane being strong enough to knock both Betsy and herself back into the physical world.



The TP put Emma in a coma, the TK destroyed the building.

[MechaJeanix]

I want you all to be correct and I'm inclined to agree but I am not sure that is how Claremont intended it to be when the issue initially came out. I think Claremont intended Emma's blast to be that powerful. Claremont is kind of whacky so I could def see it. It was later that we learned that Emma didn't die there but had been injured..

I'm looking at the scan and I am confident the scene was written that Emma caused the destruction of the building as crazy as that may sound. On the Comicvine Emma respect thread it lists Emma as causing it. I know it doesn't prove anything but there ya go. It is def a valid interpretation of the scene as many have interpreted that Emma's psi-bolt caused the house to come down.

[ExodusCloak]

The Phoenix says afterwards it would take more then an exploding building to do me in. This suggests that it wasn't Jean who brought down the building but exactly what the narrator says in the caption. Whatever focused totality of the psi bolt allowed her to explode the building and give her a brief moment to escape.

[Omega_DCD]

I want you all to be correct and I'm inclined to agree but I am not sure that is how Claremont intended it to be when the issue initially came out. I think Claremont intended Emma's blast to be that powerful. Claremont is kind of whacky so I could def see it. It was later that we learned that Emma didn't die there but had been injured..

I'm looking at the scan and I am confident the scene was written that Emma caused the destruction of the building as crazy as that may sound. On the Comicvine Emma respect thread it lists Emma as causing it. I know it doesn't prove anything but there ya go. It is def a valid interpretation of the scene as many have interpreted that Emma's psi-bolt caused the house to come down.

The problem I have is it doesn't match with the actual powerset, or anything that has been depicted from her before or especially since(to my knowledge...has Emma blasted down any other buildings telepathically?)

High energy telepathy CAN have an effect on physical objects, but the effect is usually of an electrical sort, since telepathy and electricity can have some crossover effects with each other. Disrupting electrical circuits and causing damage that way, I can buy that....but outright causing combustion, destroying concrete, glass, steel, etc? Sorry...if she can do that, why didn't she blast the Sentinels in The New Mutants? Or in UXM 281 before she got put into a coma again?

[MechaJeanix]

The Phoenix says afterwards it would take more then an exploding building to do me in. This suggests that it wasn't Jean who brought down the building but exactly what the narrator says in the caption. Whatever focused totality of the psi bolt allowed her to explode the building and give her a brief moment to escape.

Hey Exodus Cloak... it finally happened where we agree on something. But yeah after reviewing the scan for a second time today I do think Claremont intended Emma to have caused it though I agree with others it is kind of wacky since it is not exactly in line with her abilities but there ya have it...

I asked my partner and my twin brother who are also big Jean stans (they just quit the fandom and the current comics) and they think it reads that Emma caused it.... because Claremont. So there it is. Maybe we classify it as a goof like anytime the cuckoos seemingly used tk or when Xavier mindblasted a Sentinel!

[Phoenixx9]

I want you all to be correct and I'm inclined to agree but I am not sure that is how Claremont intended it to be when the issue initially came out. I think Claremont intended Emma's blast to be that powerful. Claremont is kind of whacky so I could def see it. It was later that we learned that Emma didn't die there but had been injured..

I'm looking at the scan and I am confident the scene was written that Emma caused the destruction of the building as crazy as that may sound. On the Comicvine Emma respect thread it lists Emma as causing it. I know it doesn't prove anything but there ya go. It is def a valid interpretation of the scene as many have interpreted that Emma's psi-bolt caused the house to come down.

Emma was not as powerful as Xavier. That was stated. I think even Leland makes a comment that she is no match for him.

In addition, why would emma bring a building down on herself? I have read that story 100 times and I NEVER took it as emma made the blast and destroyed the building. It was Jean's Phoenix Effect blowing upward and removing the house (and anything else in her way!) while she made her way topside with the ailing storm. When they were at the top the PF Effect exploded up into the air.

[Omega_DCD]

Yeah for me all of those goofs are basically...

[Mercury]

Popping in for a few minutes to reply to some of the most recent messages.

I really did like Jean's pink form though. I wish writers brought it back. It was neat.

Don't fret; her pink form is still an established and canonical part of her powerset. Maybe we'll get lucky and Duggan will decide to have her use it. He has already very vaguely implied that the dress might go soon...

I view the Emma/Phoenix building incident like this...Emma went for broke using all her remaining telepathic power, and Jean overreacted(with both TP and TK) with a defensive parry... The TP put Emma in a coma, the TK destroyed the building.

I totally agree with you. Let us review the page and panels in question, shall we?

On the following page, Scott notes, "I was hit by a flash of pain from Jean - through the mind-link - an instant before the explosion." Now, the cause of the explosion could have been Jean reacting with a defensive parry, as you put it, or even a reflexive, i.e., unintentional, response to the "flash of pain." One could presume the pain caused Phoenix's telekinetic powers to manifest in an explosive and flaming flare out. This makes sense when one considers the first panel on the second screenshot, in which she immediately manifests her firebird form.

Also, I interpret Phoenix saying, "It'll take more than a collapsing building to do me in," as her implying that, although Emma's attack was painful, she thought more about what the force of her own power unconsciously unleashed could have done, which could also be interpreted as a subtle dig at Emma. (By the way, the fact that Emma caused Phoenix any pain is quite impressive.)





Also, this is delicious! Thank you for posting it.

Okay, back to work!

[Omega_DCD]

Also, this is delicious! Thank you for posting it.



Okay, back to work!

No problem! Hope all is going well with work

And thanks for the scans and recap...for me, even the "flash of pain from Jean" I took to be Emma's pain transmitted via the psychic link, not Jean's own pain, and here's why

One of the very first issues I read when I started collecting was UXM 281, which I read before the DPS, has Jean in a telepathic link with Colossus and Iceman, and they are able to feel the agony Emma is inflicting on the girl through the link



So that's how I've always interpreted that pain remark, especially since Jean both appears and says she(and Storm) are basically fine, but the White Queen wasn't as lucky.