LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Wiccan]

Daken won't forget the kiss that made it all possible

Now he's gonna give Bobby different kind of seed.

[nandes]

Of course! After Bobby froze it, he was a nice guy on ANW. Bobby changed his life for the better, and now he wants to make up to him.

Daken won't forget the kiss that made it all possible

Bobby's kiss literally cured Daken of his evil ways! What kind of fairytale romance??

[Crimz]

All this after Daken stabbed Bobby's boyfriend Jacob. The problem here is Bobby liking Daken rather than Daken liking Bobby.

Daken just never seemed like Bobby's type to me. Bobby seemed to go for the girl next door when he dated girls, that could be different with guys but he just dated Joseph, who seems to be the same type.

[Wiccan615]

Now he's gonna give Bobby different kind of seed.

Omfg you’re the best xD

[Wiccan]

Bobby's kiss literally cured Daken of his evil ways! What kind of fairytale romance??

Truly poetic fareshadowing of how their relationship will be.

All this after Daken stabbed Bobby's boyfriend Jacob. The problem here is Bobby liking Daken rather than Daken liking Bobby.

Daken just never seemed like Bobby's type to me. Bobby seemed to go for the girl next door when he dated girls, that could be different with guys but he just dated Joseph, who seems to be the same type.

Sina kind of talked about that. He said it would be unrealistic for Bobby, who's still new and awkward with dealing with his sexuality, to be with someone like Daken right away, but that after this, they would feel more significant for each other... I don't think it was executed perfectly but I kinda see what he means.

Omfg you’re the best xD

I try.

[Tiamatty]

Deadpool is a comedic character. Almost everything he says and does has a punchline.

But there's a difference between wanting Marvel to explore his sexuality more and saying that "he doesn't count" unless he dates/sleeps with a man.

See, here's the problem with the "Deadpool is a comedic character" argument: He's had a ton of heterosexual relationships treated with total sincerity and seriousness. In fact, most of his romantic relationships have been treated with sincerity and seriousness. His "crushes" on guys have never been played as anything other than a punch line. He's pansexual in the same way that Bugs Bunny is. It is used solely, exclusively, and entirely as a punch line. "Haha, look at Deadpool, saying how great Gambit's butt is! That Wade sure is funny!" Compare that to, say, his semi-relationship with Rogue. That wasn't treated as a joke.

So yeah, until Deadpool actually does have a romantic relationship with a guy, or even just has consensual sex with another man, then I'm not going to take seriously any claims of him being pan. Until a writer actually treats it as something more than goddamn Looney Tunes gag, I see no reason why we should buy their bullshit about how he TOTALLY sexually fluid.


As for Fresh Start, yeah, the utter lack of openly LGBT characters is pretty glaring. And the Avengers is apparently continuing their history of not letting openly gay heroes serve on the main team.

[Beetle]

See, here's the problem with the "Deadpool is a comedic character" argument: He's had a ton of heterosexual relationships treated with total sincerity and seriousness. In fact, most of his romantic relationships have been treated with sincerity and seriousness. His "crushes" on guys have never been played as anything other than a punch line. He's pansexual in the same way that Bugs Bunny is. It is used solely, exclusively, and entirely as a punch line. "Haha, look at Deadpool, saying how great Gambit's butt is! That Wade sure is funny!" Compare that to, say, his semi-relationship with Rogue. That wasn't treated as a joke.

So yeah, until Deadpool actually does have a romantic relationship with a guy, or even just has consensual sex with another man, then I'm not going to take seriously any claims of him being pan. Until a writer actually treats it as something more than goddamn Looney Tunes gag, I see no reason why we should buy their bullshit about how he TOTALLY sexually fluid.

As for Fresh Start, yeah, the utter lack of openly LGBT characters is pretty glaring. And the Avengers is apparently continuing their history of not letting openly gay heroes serve on the main team.

Anole has never had a romantic relationship, he had one date once. We don't know if he's ever had consensual sex with another man. Is he not gay?
Of course he is. Because he says he is. Because the writers say he is.

Saying Deadpool doesn't "count" as bi or pan unless he's kissed/screwed some arbitrary number of men is gatekeeping. And more than a little biphobic.

[Tiamatty]

Anole has never had a romantic relationship, he had one date once. We don't know if he's ever had consensual sex with another man. Is he not gay?
Of course he is. Because he says he is. Because the writers say he is.

Saying Deadpool doesn't "count" as bi or pan unless he's kissed/screwed some arbitrary number of men is gatekeeping. And more than a little biphobic.

We know Anole's gay because his liking men isn't consistently treated as a punch line. Deadpool's attraction to men is always a joke. Every single time. Every single instance of him showing an attraction to a man is played for laughs. His attraction to women can go either way - sometimes it's a joke, sometimes it's sincere. It's written differently from his attraction to men.

As it is, I see no reason to see Deadpool as being any more legitimately into guys than I am. "My, that is one fine-looking fellow. Kudos to him, I admire the clear effort he takes in maintaining his appearance." Remove "that wacky Wade" stuff, and that's basically all we get.

And hell, has Deadpool ever identified as bi/pan/queer/anything?

[Beetle]

We know Anole's gay because his liking men isn't consistently treated as a punch line. Deadpool's attraction to men is always a joke. Every single time. Every single instance of him showing an attraction to a man is played for laughs. His attraction to women can go either way - sometimes it's a joke, sometimes it's sincere. It's written differently from his attraction to men.

As it is, I see no reason to see Deadpool as being any more legitimately into guys than I am. "My, that is one fine-looking fellow. Kudos to him, I admire the clear effort he takes in maintaining his appearance." Remove "that wacky Wade" stuff, and that's basically all we get.

And hell, has Deadpool ever identified as bi/pan/queer/anything?

How much of "Deadpool's attraction to men is treated as a punchline" is Wade trying to be funny and how much is it just the audience inferring that its supposed to be funny because the idea that he might actually be attracted to men is "ridiculous"?

If Wade is just having these thoughts and fantasies to himself, and he isn't making a joke to flirt with a guy, how is it any less legitimate?



Considering that most characters on the list of bi/pan/queer have characters never used the terminology, is it really fair to single out Deadpool? Rictor, Shatterstar, Mystique, Loki, Moondragon, Daken, Hercules. None of them ever actually identified on panel, at best we got some confirmation from the writers in interviews.
That's why its such a big deal when characters like Lightspeed and Prodigy actually use the word bisexual.

Nicieza, Duggan, and Simone have all said that they wrote him as pansexual. That's more than you get for most characters.

[Tiamatty]

How much of "Deadpool's attraction to men is treated as a punchline" is Wade trying to be funny and how much is it just the audience inferring that its supposed to be funny because the idea that he might actually be attracted to men is "ridiculous"?

If Wade is just having these thoughts and fantasies to himself, and he isn't making a joke to flirt with a guy, how is it any less legitimate?



Considering that most characters on the list of bi/pan/queer have characters never used the terminology, is it really fair to single out Deadpool? Rictor, Shatterstar, Mystique, Loki, Moondragon, Daken, Hercules. None of them ever actually identified on panel, at best we got some confirmation from the writers in interviews.
That's why its such a big deal when characters like Lightspeed and Prodigy actually use the word bisexual.

Nicieza, Duggan, and Simone have all said that they wrote him as pansexual. That's more than you get for most characters.

Seems to me that the rest of that scene treats it as a joke for readers to laugh at. As for the list, Hercules and Loki aside, they've all actually been involved with people of both genders. Moondragon spent years trying to find a guy she thought she should be with, and then dated women. Rictor was involved with women, then became involved with Shatterstar. Shatterstar was involved with Rictor, and still showed interest in women. Mystique was very blatantly romantically involved with Destiny, and has dated so very, very many men since. Daken's slept with men and women. Hercules, unfortunately, has still been kept solely as subtext. Loki did hit on Prodigy, even if he did then try to imply he might not have been serious.

More important, all of them - again, excepting Hercules and Loki - had their attractions to both genders written in much the same ways. That's just not the case with Deadpool. His attraction to men has never been treated with any of the sincerity his attraction to women has been.

It wouldn't take much for Deadpool's pansexuality to actually be treated seriously. "I wish I could have more with Spidey, but I know he doesn't swing that way, so I have to be satisfied with just being friends." Or have him actually reference being involved with guys. Or have him actually be involved with a guy, not that Marvel would ever actually have the courage to actually let a major character be actively LGBTQ+.

But anyway, that's my opinion. That's why I, personally, don't count Deadpool as being LGBTQ+ rep. I should probably leave it there.

Instead, I'll just note that Marvel should still give us a mini showing how Mystique and Destiny met and fell in love. Still waiting, Marvel!

[Drops Of Venus]

Slight change of topic, but.....

looking at the promo image for the new Fresh Start relaunch doesn't fill me with much hope. There doesn't single look to be a single LGBT+ character on there? And with only one Avengers title, there go all books (Young Avengers, New Avengers, USAvengers) that have had the most LGBTQ+ characters in them...

Yep, that's what I thought as well. What a way to cripple any LGBTQ-inclusive Avengers titles. They could've made up for that by putting some actual queer person on the main roster, but OF COURSE they didn't do that.

After how America and Iceman sold, I really doubt it.

I think that logic is really flawed and Marvel, as a company, should know better than that. Like, Slapstick, Solo and Foolkiller all flopped... does that mean Marvel should stop putting out solo books with white straight guys? No, because it's clear the fact the books didn't sell had nothing to do with that. Iceman wouldn't have sold better if he was straight, and they probably know that. So it all comes down to some titles not being strong enough to survive the direct market and when Marvel is willing to take their chances on a new title like that again, regardless of the sexual orientation of the character. If they keep with their experimental initiative, then I think it's possible for us to get some more LGBTQ solos. If not, then yeah, we're probably in a bad place, because Marvel simply doesn't have a queer character who's a surefire seller with the exception of Deadpool, which brings us to this next topic:

I'm not crazy about the whole "Deadpool doesn't count" mentality. His writers say he's pansexual, he's expressed interest in men and women. He's stated his attraction to Thor, Cable and Spider-Man; none of them have ever reciprocated but how does that discount his own feelings?

If a real life bisexual or pansexual person has never had a sexual encounter or relationship with someone of their own gender, does that mean they aren't really bi or pan? Even though they feel that attraction and they identify as pan? Do we really get to police when a person actually "counts" as part of the community?

I agree with this. I hate that his sexuality is not taken more seriously, BUT I don't agree with erasing that part of him. I think the best approach is to acknowledge him as a queer character AND BE VOCAL ABOUT IT to the creators. Let them know that it's not enough to just tell; they have to show. Deadpool is getting a new writer soon, so we should be paying attention to that. Is it guaranteed that the new writer will do something about it? No. BUT at least we can say we did our part to try and improve representation.

Which writers would you guys trust to do a good job with this?

So Black Panther has been a roaring success on just about every front and is breaking box office records left and right. Hopefully this pushes Marvel to pursue more diverse MCU properties going forward.

Disney's CEO was talking about how the movie ''shattered myths'' on his Twitter, so they are aware some notions of what makes a successful blockbuster are outdated. I'm just not sure when they'll be willing to take this step with LGBTQ characters.

Speaking of this, can anyone who's watched the movie confirm the Ayo scene with Okoye was indeed cut? I imagine it was, since I haven't heard a single soul talking about this.

Johnny and Daken art

[Tiamatty]

I agree with this. I hate that his sexuality is not taken more seriously, BUT I don't agree with erasing that part of him. I think the best approach is to acknowledge him as a queer character AND BE VOCAL ABOUT IT to the creators. Let them know that it's not enough to just tell; they have to show. Deadpool is getting a new writer soon, so we should be paying attention to that. Is it guaranteed that the new writer will do something about it? No. BUT at least we can say we did our part to try and improve representation.

Which writers would you guys trust to do a good job with this?

I suspect it probably doesn't matter who writes Deadpool, they're not going to actually let him be pansexual. I'm guessing it's an editorial thing. Deadpool's one of their biggest characters - he's not going to be allowed to date a dude. It's not going to happen. Not any time soon. It'll be a decade, or more, before Marvel will actually let characters who matter be openly LGBTQ+. They'll let new gay characters be created, they'll let some C-lister-or-below come out. But a character that has a large fanbase? Not a damn chance.

Marvel wants The Gay kept far away from their A-list.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

Speaking of this, can anyone who's watched the movie confirm the Ayo scene with Okoye was indeed cut? I imagine it was, since I haven't heard a single soul talking about this.

I haven't seen the movie yet but I've seen a few articles online talking about the scene being cut. Even when the scene was first reported to exist before the film came out Marvel's representatives immediately shutdown any hope by insisting that the scene wasn't intended to be romantic, which is bullshit but they made sure to cover themselves from any homophobic backlash right away.

[King_Thor13]

Surely Ewing, Waid & Zub didn't bring back Lightning in No Surrender only for him to not be an Avenger or be used beyond that storyline. Besides, there must be another title somewhere- Wasp, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Hercules, Falcon, Hawkeye, Spider-Woman, Doctor Voodoo etc. are all unaccounted for. I'd hope whatever the Beta book/s are, whatever the title may be, that we get a little more representation. With Iceman, Gen X, America and US Avengers all canceled, there's a distinct lack of titles featuring LGBT characters right now. Hopefully, the 'fresh start' can remedy that. More Hercules, Daken, Lightning, Wiccan, Hulkling, Iceman, Mystique, Mondragon & Matyr I hope

[Fokken]

Ooooh I'd love to see Angela and Hercules become warrior buds.