Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Drake Appreciation 2021

[Fergus]

This is true, that he is not a genius. I honestly just shut down on the whole thing.

I like Tim.

My problem with fanon Tim is… pretty much everything. It’s not just the coffee or the genius thing. It’s the insomnia, the self neglect, the OCD, the panic attacks. How he randomly run around hating everyone and always seems to be trying to go into hiding. That character is not Tim Drake. That character is super toxic.

Fanon Tim is Toxic and sad. Toxic because Mental illness, Trauma and emotional abuse should never be romanticised

Sad because that a lot of the fans that make up and apply these fanon elements to Tim are projecting their reality onto him.

He has become a comfort character for some.

[Astralabius]

This is true, that he is not a genius. I honestly just shut down on the whole thing.

I like Tim.

My problem with fanon Tim is… pretty much everything. It’s not just the coffee or the genius thing. It’s the insomnia, the self neglect, the OCD, the panic attacks. How he randomly run around hating everyone and always seems to be trying to go into hiding. That character is not Tim Drake. That character is super toxic.

To be completely honest, fanon Tim is simply pathetic. I know from my own experience that mental health issues can be hard but fanon Tim is just annoying and spineless.

Nothing is ever truly his fault. Even when he thinks it is, he's only talking himself into believing he did something wrong. Everyone around him gets turned into a bully so poor poor Timmy can feel even more bad about himself. But he would never blame them because he is such an angel and hates himself so much, even though in reality he's actually absolutely perfect, he just doesn't see it yet T_T
Let's just ignore how everyone always praises Tim for no reason and assures him he's the best on a regular basis when he shows up in a canon comic

And that evil evil ten year old and Dick should be punished with death for taking Robin from him, even though that happened over a decade ago and Dick was only trying to make the best out of a bad situation. They all should grovel at Tim's feet for forgiveness!!!
Let's act like that was Tim's biggest problem at the time, not his friends and his father being dead. Funny how fanfiction writers rarely ever get into that.

And then all the stuff that just isn't true. No, Tim is not the only one who Ra's has called Detective. Besides Bruce he also called Dick and Jason by that name. He probably would call Damian Detective too if he wasn't his grandson. At this point I'm convinced Ra's simply calls every bat Detective if he can't recall their true name in time.
No, Tim wasn't kicked out of the family when Dick made Damian Robin. Dick checked up on him, it was Tim who wanted to isolate himself.
No, Tim is not the one people think of when you ask them on the street if they know who Robin is. That's Dick, the original. They might have heard of a Robin who died because of the Joker. If they watched any of the recent animated stuff they might know that Bruce has a biological son now too.
No, Tim is not the only one who truly wanted to be Robin. Dick created the damn mantle for gods sake and both Jason and Damian wanted to be Robin. That one panel from the 90s some fans keep using as proof is a disservice to Dick and Jason's time as Robin.
No, Tim did not have it the worst in recent years. Getting an uncreative new identity is not as bad as Dick having to be Ric for two years or DC trying to turn Damian into villain and throwing his entire character developement out of the window.

Sorry for this very long rant, but fanon Tim and some of his fans are just annoying. You don't have to make Tim into the smartest, bestest, saddest, most tragic and depressed character ever to justify why you like him.

[Digifiend]

It says Computer Genius which is very different from Genius. Narrowing it down to such a specific aptitude. He's got a knack with computers. [wasn't he hacked by a 10 year old?]

Tim is inconsistent. The most inconsistent of all the characters in the DC Universe because they keep trying to update him.

So now that the Bat verse has introduced character's far more brilliant than him they changed him into a 'computer genius'.

Well, that's a dumb niche to give him. Surely Babs is even better at computers than Tim is? If that's the direction they want for Tim, maybe he should take over as Oracle?

[Aahz]

No, Tim did not have it the worst in recent years. Getting an uncreative new identity is not as bad as Dick having to be Ric for two years or DC trying to turn Damian into villain and throwing his entire character developement out of the window.

Don't know, a terrible run (even if it lasts for two years) isn't that bad on the long run for character, if he also had popular runs before, after or parallel to it.

Tim has barely had any popular stories since flashpoint (I can't really of any that I really liked), and with a lack of new material worth reading you kind of just loosing the fanbase on the long run.

[Lal]

Don't know, a terrible run (even if it lasts for two years) isn't that bad on the long run for character, if he also had popular runs before, after or parallel to it.

Tim has barely had any popular stories since flashpoint (I can't really of any that I really liked), and with a lack of new material worth reading you kind of just loosing the fanbase on the long run.

Tim had it really easy compared to Dick and Damian in the last two years.

Dick suffered two years of amnesia and the worst possible stories, including a bunch of other characters playing Nightwing in his own book while he was busy acting like Jason at his worst.

Damian was literally compared to Hitler and carried a suicide vest. Could you imagine a worse thing that can destroy a character's popularity? I still can't believe that DC actually did it.

Tim maybe didn't have best stories in recent years, but he didn't suffer deliberate character assassination. And it's clear that Bendis at least tried writing him as a compelling character.

[Aahz]

Damian was literally compared to Hitler and carried a suicide vest. Could you imagine a worse thing that can destroy a character's popularity? I still can't believe that DC actually did it.

One bad scene doesn't really destroy a characters popularity.

Yeah all of the Robins had bad stories, but most of them had also good ones.

Since Flashpoint Damian had Batman and Robin, Robin Son of Batman, several incarnation of Supersons his current Robin and some one shots and elseworlds that were all seen as pretty good.

Dick Grayson (not my taste but alot of people seem to like it), and Nightwing in the past 10 year runs had some bad runs and some pretty good runs.


When I can't really think of any story with him that people really liked in the last ten year, yeah some writers tried to do something but non of it was really a hit. With other Robins it feels like you have at least 50:50 chance to get something good if they have a new run or series announced, with Tim it seems you can expect at best something mediocre.

[Daedalus]

Lol! A lot of people are stupid. Discovering Batman's identity was a combination of coincidence and having eyes not Super intellect.

Tim isn't super smart.
Tim isn't smarter than Batman
Batman has never said that Tim was smarter than himself

He has, as a quick google search will remind you: here

Tim was crafted to be an insert character. He was made generic on purpose so audience would like him and relate to him. No strong personality or flaws or uniqueness to making him appealing to the LCD.

Tim was shown to be repeatedly obsessive during much of the character's heyday, to the point that it was detrimental to himself and others around him. He was never flawless.

If you don't like him, you can avoid him pretty easily, though there are better places to do that than in a Tim Drake Appreciation Thread.

[failo.legendkiller]

If you don't like him, you can avoid him pretty easily, though there are better places to do that than in a Tim Drake Appreciation Thread.

I don’t know why from time to time some Damian fans love to come here to tell how poor and limited is Tim’s character and how bad and ugly are Tim’s fans. You’ll have to get used to it.

[Lal]

One bad scene doesn't really destroy a characters popularity.

Yeah all of the Robins had bad stories, but most of them had also good ones.

Since Flashpoint Damian had Batman and Robin, Robin Son of Batman, several incarnation of Supersons his current Robin and some one shots and elseworlds that were all seen as pretty good.

Dick Grayson (not my taste but alot of people seem to like it), and Nightwing in the past 10 year runs had some bad runs and some pretty good runs.


When I can't really think of any story with him that people really liked in the last ten year, yeah some writers tried to do something but non of it was really a hit. With other Robins it feels like you have at least 50:50 chance to get something good if they have a new run or series announced, with Tim it seems you can expect at best something mediocre.

I wish the problem with Damian was only this one problematic scene, but it was really the last two years of making him once again into a killer. DC clearly wanted to turn him into a villain.

Anyway, it's clear DC at least tried with Tim. They made him the founder of the Teen Titans (instead of Dick) in the New 52, it didn't take (in 2 different iterations), and so later they tried to make him the creator of the Batmen in Tynion's run. That attempt also included complete fanboy moments like future Tim defeating Batman + the other 3 Robins simultaneously.
Later they tried to revive Young justice - again, a really good direction, it just didn't work.
2 writers that declare themselves Tim's fans wrote him in the last 4 years, it's much more than so many other characters got.

What I'm trying to say is that it's clear DC really tried with Tim, except for giving him a solo, they tried different directions.
I'm not sure that being a Robin that shares the same mantle with Damian is a good thing for Tim right now, but it seems Damian isn't coming to Gotham, so he could remain the Robin of Gotham, while Damian is Batman's Robin.
But it seems that even amongst Tim fans there are different approaches regarding what he should do.

[Morgoth]

I'm not sure that being a Robin that shares the same mantle with Damian is a good thing for Tim right now, but it seems Damian isn't coming to Gotham, so he could remain the Robin of Gotham, while Damian is Batman's Robin.

It's probably how things will be going next year. Damian will Bruce's Robin during their road trip across the globe, while Tim will stay in Gotham.

[Astralabius]

One bad scene doesn't really destroy a characters popularity.

Yeah all of the Robins had bad stories, but most of them had also good ones.

Since Flashpoint Damian had Batman and Robin, Robin Son of Batman, several incarnation of Supersons his current Robin and some one shots and elseworlds that were all seen as pretty good.

Dick Grayson (not my taste but alot of people seem to like it), and Nightwing in the past 10 year runs had some bad runs and some pretty good runs.


When I can't really think of any story with him that people really liked in the last ten year, yeah some writers tried to do something but non of it was really a hit. With other Robins it feels like you have at least 50:50 chance to get something good if they have a new run or series announced, with Tim it seems you can expect at best something mediocre.

Except it wasn't just one bad scene. It was a pretty systematical character assassination ordered by editorial, stretched out over two years with Damian in no other main continuity book running alongside it. Adventures of the Super Sons was set in the past and DCeased was set in another universe.
The premise of the Glass TT run was that the JL was wrong and instead of trying to do better Damian and his team were gonna do worse, something anyone with a bit of understanding of how DC works could see would have to end in disaster. As if the JL would ever look at what they did and go: "Oh, yeah, we should act just like the villains, why didn't we think of that!"

They gave Damian a pretty weak reason to turn his back on Bruce's methods so the readers wouldn't sympathize with him too much (Dick, Jon, Alfred, all of that only got retconned into the story afterwards when DC was already trying to do some form of damage control) then DC had him built a literal torture chamber, made him constantly lie to his team members who by the end of the run all hated him and called him a monster, wrote him accusing Jason of a crime he didn't commit, which ended with Damian getting humiliated and beaten by Jason, had Alfred take Jason and Bruce's side and had Alfred compare Damian to Ra's al Ghul, wrote Damian mindwiping people, made him attempt to murder Kgbeast and Deathstroke, injure Emiko and finally had him kill Brother Blood.

In short: Breaking Batman's most important rules one by one. Batman usually only catches criminals before letting the justice system handle the rest. We know what he thinks of mind wiping people since Identity Crisis. The no-kill-rule is his most sacred principle.
Damian was portrayed as a bad leader, bad hero and most importantly a bad person that not even Alfred liked. His character developement, which many will agree is one of the best things about the character, was completely destroyed. All of this was by design, it wasn't an accident. We were literally supposed to hate him, it was just too bad for DC that many people refused to buy that crap and rejected the direction they were trying to push Damian in.

Tim on the other hand got the Robin mantle and all of his friends back. He had several writers that clearly love him. That they fail to write a truly good story with him has to do with a lack of skill, not with unwillingness or with DC trying to ruin Tim.
What they did to Damian and Dick was a choice. That Tim fails to have a good story is an accident.
It's not the same.

[Ameerha]

Tim has barely had any popular stories since flashpoint (I can't really of any that I really liked), and with a lack of new material worth reading you kind of just loosing the fanbase on the long run.

Not for lack of trying.

[Aahz]

Not for lack of trying.

The intentions don't really change the result.

[dietrich]

Don't know, a terrible run (even if it lasts for two years) isn't that bad on the long run for character, if he also had popular runs before, after or parallel to it.

Tim has barely had any popular stories since flashpoint (I can't really of any that I really liked), and with a lack of new material worth reading you kind of just loosing the fanbase on the long run.

Can you name a character that has never had a bad run?

All Characters have had bad runs however what most characters don't get is chance after chance after chance like Tim.

He most certainly hasn't had as bad as Dick and Damian. Just because he isn't as popular, now has a broken base doesn't change the fact that DC has done everything to fix him and to give his fanbase what they demanded.

unlike Dick and Damian who DC went out of their way to destroy/undermine

[dietrich]

The intentions don't really change the result.

They do when we are talking about creative work which is subjective. What nonsense. DC had good intentions. They intended to fix Tim, to graduate the character to make him as visible as possible but the fans rejected all their efforts.