Page 34 of 388 FirstFirst ... 243031323334353637384484134 ... LastLast
Results 496 to 510 of 5810
  1. #496
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 666MasterOfPuppets View Post
    I think that's part of the drama of the character. Like I said, he's not human. He's an alien.And turning him into a just a nice guy with powers, or as Superlad put it: a nice guy with the strangest life posible, takes away some of his charm.

    EDIT: edited my previous post to include a brief thought on Superboy. He should never exist. Neither the young Clark wearing a cape, nor the Superman/ Luthor clone.
    How does not having immortality make him less of an alien?

  2. #497
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,441

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    More like hilarious out of character moments for everyone on-screen and off-screen. No need to crap on Lois and Steve
    Let's see.

    Superman: strong, brave, determined to defend lives even at the cost of his own. Nope. Not out of character. Wonder Woman: brash, confident, determined to save people. Nope. Not out of character. Lex Luthor: arrogant, manipulative, determined to prove his superiority to everyone. Nope. Not out of character. Hawkman? Not out of character per se, since JLA seems to believe him to be bland and boring. Definitely feel bad for Hawkman fans.

    Nope. No one's out of character.

    As far as "crapping on Lois and Steve?" It's not crapping. A lot of JLA's elements hearken back to the Silver Age. Comics History 101: Silver Age Lois Lane did NOT give a crap about Clark Kent. She only cared about Superman. Steve Trevor? Silver Age Steve Trevor was a borderline psychopath who "loved" Wonder Woman and didn't give a crap about Diana Prince. "Loved" is in quotes because Steve's idea of "love" involved subjecting Wonder Woman to what would be described today as emotional abuse in order to try to manipulate her into acting more like a "proper" 1950s housewife for him. Seriously, he used to frequently give her the old "If you loved me, you would do *blank* for me" treatment. Because everyone knows that the best way for a woman to show her love for her man is to do everything he wants without a single thought to what SHE might want.

    Seriously, I'm pretty sure Silver Age Steve inspired the general apathy and/or disdain that has hounded Steve Trevor for decades. It was also the likely birthplace for the whole idea of the SM/WW ship. A lot of readers probably read Wonder Woman stories, saw Steve being a jerk to Diana, and thought "This Trevor guy is a jerk! Why would Wonder Woman be with a guy like that? She should be with a great guy who would treat her right! Like Superman! Those two would be GREAT together!"

    There is actually more DC history of Lois and Steve not caring about their respective hero's alter-ego than there is history of them actually caring about the total package.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  3. #498
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    11,824

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    Let's see.

    Superman: strong, brave, determined to defend lives even at the cost of his own. Nope. Not out of character. Wonder Woman: brash, confident, determined to save people. Nope. Not out of character. Lex Luthor: arrogant, manipulative, determined to prove his superiority to everyone. Nope. Not out of character. Hawkman? Not out of character per se, since JLA seems to believe him to be bland and boring. Definitely feel bad for Hawkman fans.

    Nope. No one's out of character.

    As far as "crapping on Lois and Steve?" It's not crapping. A lot of JLA's elements hearken back to the Silver Age. Comics History 101: Silver Age Lois Lane did NOT give a crap about Clark Kent. She only cared about Superman. Steve Trevor? Silver Age Steve Trevor was a borderline psychopath who "loved" Wonder Woman and didn't give a crap about Diana Prince. "Loved" is in quotes because Steve's idea of "love" involved subjecting Wonder Woman to what would be described today as emotional abuse in order to try to manipulate her into acting more like a "proper" 1950s housewife for him. Seriously, he used to frequently give her the old "If you loved me, you would do *blank* for me" treatment. Because everyone knows that the best way for a woman to show her love for her man is to do everything he wants without a single thought to what SHE might want.

    Seriously, I'm pretty sure Silver Age Steve inspired the general apathy and/or disdain that has hounded Steve Trevor for decades. It was also the likely birthplace for the whole idea of the SM/WW ship. A lot of readers probably read Wonder Woman stories, saw Steve being a jerk to Diana, and thought "This Trevor guy is a jerk! Why would Wonder Woman be with a guy like that? She should be with a great guy who would treat her right! Like Superman! Those two would be GREAT together!"

    There is actually more DC history of Lois and Steve not caring about their respective hero's alter-ego than there is history of them actually caring about the total package.
    Superman would never dig at Lois saying: you don't need to be saved". that is completely out of character
    Wonder Woman would never put power/strenght over anything she has with steve.

    Silver age clark and diana were never ever real IDs, just to begin and to end Silver age was really bad for women, a friend of mine abomines it because it is so sexist.

    We should had move on beyond it, but here we are.


    anyway I digged so much the doctor who christmas special, some problems, but it was a great homage to Donner movies and superhero stories in general.

  4. #499
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,005

    Default

    The real villain in Lex Luthor stories isn't Lex Luthor. It's Lex Luthor's lawyer.

  5. #500
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,441

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Superman would never dig at Lois saying: you don't need to be saved". that is completely out of character
    How is that a dig on Lois? He was talking about Diana, and Diana DOESN'T need saving very often. If he said "Unlike Lois, YOU never need saving" or something like that, then you'd have a case. But he didn't. He was talking to Diana and he was talking about HER. Not anyone else. You're projecting something that isn't there.

    Wonder Woman would never put power/strenght over anything she has with steve.
    When did Diana say a THING about power/strength over anything? She specifically stated that Steve didn't care about her when she wasn't wearing a short skirt and bench pressing tanks. She said it was nice to be with someone with someone who appreciated her for who she was. "Power" never once came up in the discussion. Diana was with Superman because she feels she can just be herself around him.

    Silver age clark and diana were never ever real IDs, just to begin and to end Silver age was really bad for women, a friend of mine abomines it because it is so sexist.
    Silver Age Clark very MUCH was a real secret ID. It has always been his real identity in his mind. Diana Prince wasn't real, which is why I never liked it in the first place. The point is Steve apparently can't appreciate her unless she's being superhuman around him. That doesn't speak well of his emotional maturity.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  6. #501
    Omnes Viae Ad Infernum 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    The legendary Fortress Of Solitude, the strangest place on earth
    Posts
    1,220

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    How does not having immortality make him less of an alien?
    Perhaps I used the wrong words. The immortality part can easily be explained away by his alien origin. I see it as part of being an alien coming from a race thousands (or even millions) of years more advanced than our own. Hell, we are trying to find the way to become immortal, so why wouldn't Kryptonians have achieved that thousands of years before their demise? Also, seeing his friends and family die is part of the things he knows he'll have to deal with eventually.

  7. #502
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 666MasterOfPuppets View Post
    Perhaps I used the wrong words. The immortality part can easily be explained away by his alien origin. I see it as part of being an alien coming from a race thousands (or even millions) of years more advanced than our own. Hell, we are trying to find the way to become immortal, so why wouldn't Kryptonians have achieved that thousands of years before their demise? Also, seeing his friends and family die is part of the things he knows he'll have to deal with eventually.
    That can still happen without the immortality though.

  8. #503
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,701

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    Let's see.

    Superman: strong, brave, determined to defend lives even at the cost of his own. Nope. Not out of character. Wonder Woman: brash, confident, determined to save people. Nope. Not out of character. Lex Luthor: arrogant, manipulative, determined to prove his superiority to everyone. Nope. Not out of character. Hawkman? Not out of character per se, since JLA seems to believe him to be bland and boring. Definitely feel bad for Hawkman fans.

    Nope. No one's out of character.

    As far as "crapping on Lois and Steve?" It's not crapping. A lot of JLA's elements hearken back to the Silver Age. Comics History 101: Silver Age Lois Lane did NOT give a crap about Clark Kent. She only cared about Superman. Steve Trevor? Silver Age Steve Trevor was a borderline psychopath who "loved" Wonder Woman and didn't give a crap about Diana Prince. "Loved" is in quotes because Steve's idea of "love" involved subjecting Wonder Woman to what would be described today as emotional abuse in order to try to manipulate her into acting more like a "proper" 1950s housewife for him. Seriously, he used to frequently give her the old "If you loved me, you would do *blank* for me" treatment. Because everyone knows that the best way for a woman to show her love for her man is to do everything he wants without a single thought to what SHE might want.

    Seriously, I'm pretty sure Silver Age Steve inspired the general apathy and/or disdain that has hounded Steve Trevor for decades. It was also the likely birthplace for the whole idea of the SM/WW ship. A lot of readers probably read Wonder Woman stories, saw Steve being a jerk to Diana, and thought "This Trevor guy is a jerk! Why would Wonder Woman be with a guy like that? She should be with a great guy who would treat her right! Like Superman! Those two would be GREAT together!"

    There is actually more DC history of Lois and Steve not caring about their respective hero's alter-ego than there is history of them actually caring about the total package.
    The stupid bit was having them complain about not being loved for their true selves, as if Clark Kent and Diana Prince were their true selves. It looks extra stupid when Diana says it while not in disguise at all during the date. Even worse is these characters whining about being overlooked in their civilian disguises all while the show never tells stories with them in those disguises; in other words, Clark and Diana are invisible to the show, too. And why, of all things to use as inspiration, would one use the relationship dynamics of the Silver Age? Altogether, it's illogical and regressive garbage.

  9. #504
    Omnes Viae Ad Infernum 666MasterOfPuppets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    The legendary Fortress Of Solitude, the strangest place on earth
    Posts
    1,220

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    That can still happen without the immortality though.
    True. But also it opens the door for other stories. Superman in the far future, for example (without time travel involved). It's something that really hasn't been explored before (though it's been hinted at a few times in the past). What are the cons you see?

  10. #505
    BANNED
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,400

    Default

    Damn, Superman / Wonder Woman really is a mess.

  11. #506
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 666MasterOfPuppets View Post
    True. But also it opens the door for other stories. Superman in the far future, for example (without time travel involved). It's something that really hasn't been explored before (though it's been hinted at a few times in the past). What are the cons you see?
    For one thing, you have to answer why Clark would still be alive but Jon, Kara and Connor wouldn't. For another, stories like this diefy Superman to an utterly obnoxious degree and further play into the idea of him being an unapproachable figure that no reader can take interest in. The blatant ignoring of his limits by fanboy writers has done nothing to help the character at all.

  12. #507
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    19,547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    For one thing, you have to answer why Clark would still be alive but Jon, Kara and Connor wouldn't. For another, stories like this diefy Superman to an utterly obnoxious degree and further play into the idea of him being an unapproachable figure that no reader can take interest in. The blatant ignoring of his limits by fanboy writers has done nothing to help the character at all.
    Isnt the idea of Clark being long-lived/immortal a non-issue to begin with? The comics will never advance the story to the point where Clark's friends and loved ones have died of old age. Lois and Jimmy are just as immortal in practical application as Superman. He's never going to actually have to deal with their loss in main continuity and alternate tales, Elseworlds, and possible futures are only that; short-term stories that offer an idea of what might come to pass in a phase of Clark's life we will never actually see. You can throw some emotional conflict at Clark where all his relationships have a bittersweet aspect to them, but if you're writing Superman properly he's not the type of guy to dwell so even this is only going to get you so far.

    I disagree, to a point, with the bolded as well. Yes, some writers go overboard and make Clark great at everything and never throw a worthy challenge at him because they lack the imagination to do so. But the core of Superman's story is the concept of restraint. Its not about his limits, its about how he deals with not having any. He's a man without limitations living in a limited world and having to play by the rules imposed upon him. And that's an interesting idea to explore; if you can do anything, what *should* you do? That's the struggle Clark faces and you see it in almost every aspect of the mythos.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  13. #508
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,005

    Default

    Except he does have limits. He does have weaknesses. He isn't perfect, he makes mistakes, he loses fights. The struggle of restraint is not unique to him. He is not the most powerful being jnthe DCU.


    There is a difference between a character not dying to keep them in the story and not dying due to immortality.

  14. #509
    Astonishing Member Francisco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,068

    Default

    Immortality is not being able to die or being killed. Superman can't die naturally he needs to be killed and there are beings that can kill him. If he manages not to get killed by someone more powerful he could live almost forever.
    "By force of will he turns his gaze upon the seething horror bellow us on the hillside.
    Yes, he feels the icy touch of fear, but he is not cowed. He is Superman!"

  15. #510
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 666MasterOfPuppets View Post
    I think that's part of the drama of the character. Like I said, he's not human. He's an alien.And turning him into a just a nice guy with powers, or as Superlad put it: a nice guy with the strangest life posible, takes away some of his charm. EDIT: IMO, of course.

    EDIT: edited my previous post to include a brief thought on Superboy. He should never exist. Neither the young Clark wearing a cape, nor the Superman/ Luthor clone.
    I can see why someone might have a problem with Clark as Superboy, but what is the problem with Kon being Superboy,or just his young hybrid clone?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •