What Would You Do If You Had Complete Control Over the DCU?

[superduperman]

Take everything back to Pre-COIE mode.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I actually think this is a great idea. For a number of reasons. For one thing, I think it would be more stable than what we have now if not at least the same. Earth 2 would be problematic due to the passage of time, but the main universe itself would work fine. Or we could just pick up where COIE #10 left off with a merged Earth of both Earth 1 and Earth 2 characters. But everyone gets to keep their pre-Crisis histories. The exception being the JSA.

[Jekyll]

What I am really enjoying about Marvel right now is that there is a book for every one. The current DC fails to realize that and only offers a hand full of books. So if I was magically put in charge, that is what I would do by offering several lines of comics.

1. DC Gold line: This line would feature the JSA team book and would also offer a solo Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, and Hawkman series.

2. DC Silver line: This line would feature the JLA team book and would offer the traditional Action Comics, Detetective Comics, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Barry Flash, RAY PALMER THE ATOM, etc.

3. DC Bronze: This line would feature The Titans as it’s team book and would feature Wally as The Flash, Kyle GL, Connor Hawk, Cyborg, etc.

4. DC Legacy: This line would feature The Young Justice and Teen Titans as it’s team book and the solo series would feature Impulse, Stargirl, etc.

5. DC Cosmic: Green Lantern Corps as the team book, John , Guy, Simon and Jessica would have solos.

6. DC Dark: Hellblazer, Swamp Thing, Zantanna, etc.

You could periodically add solo series or mini series that feature other characters,but you basically have something for all fans. Every year there would be a cross over in the team books where all the characters team up.

[SiegePerilous02]

I could list a bunch of popular then in-continuity stories Knightfall, No Man's Land, Death of Superman, Judas Contract, CoIE, etc. These things push the universe forward, people talk about shaking things up and these stories do that from character development/exploration to big iconic spectacle.

The number of stories that actually move things forward are not that common. Most of the time it's just standard fare that keeps the status quo going until they shift into the next status quo or revert to a previous one. Death of Superman has no long term consequences because they resurrect him, his death was not designed to be permanent. it created the illusion of change but no actual change. They even keep bringing Doomsday back for some stupid reason even though he loses what little impact he had.

Characters like Superman and Batman are more static than anything else. We've gone several decades with them, and the biggest changes for Superman are that he died (and got better), got married and (through very convoluted means) had a kid. His character hasn't changed in any significant way either, it just alternates between various iconic attributes. He doesn't develop, but he wasn't really designed to. The big characters are more like legends that were not designed to be on linear paths of character development, which is VERY difficult to do when you aren't limited to one author or have a set end point in mind.

If you are doing something so off the rails like killing the Joker or Superman and staying dead why would these stories need to be dictated by stories made 40 years ago? I thought the whole point was to continue the stories of this universe and the characters that inhabit them. Let's say Joker dies at the end of your story and this is part of the main series Batman book. You could do so much with it after the fact anything from ghosts to clones to psychological effects yadda yadda. This idea of shifting consequences away from stories and decisions seems lazy to me.

That's not the whole point, or is not always the whole point. Back in the Silver Age they maintained the status quo pretty much all the time and did experimental "what if" stories that played upon what people knew about the iconic set ups.

If you kill the Joker in continuity that needs to be dictated by other books and never allowed to end, your story is inevitably going to be undone and he will be back. Like in the dumbest way possible. Whereas your story will be left alone in something like the Black Lable, and the characters will have to live with the consequences after the story ends. They won't in the main continuity, things will inevitably re-set. There will be the illusion of change, but it will not last forever.

[Lightning Rider]

We don't agree on everything but this thread sure has a lot of common desires.

[Photon Torme]

Batman would Still be Jim Gordon running around in a Batmobile Suit. Bruce Wayne would be to busy chasing after his psychotic bastard offspring. Oh there would be more. Many more.

[LP22]

I'll make an else world's story for the superman/wonder women shipping fans about Clark landing on Diana's island and both of them falling in love and fight the correct gods and ancient monsters

[byrd156]

The number of stories that actually move things forward are not that common. Most of the time it's just standard fare that keeps the status quo going until they shift into the next status quo or revert to a previous one. Death of Superman has no long term consequences because they resurrect him, his death was not designed to be permanent. it created the illusion of change but no actual change. They even keep bringing Doomsday back for some stupid reason even though he loses what little impact he had.

Characters like Superman and Batman are more static than anything else. We've gone several decades with them, and the biggest changes for Superman are that he died (and got better), got married and (through very convoluted means) had a kid. His character hasn't changed in any significant way either, it just alternates between various iconic attributes. He doesn't develop, but he wasn't really designed to. The big characters are more like legends that were not designed to be on linear paths of character development, which is VERY difficult to do when you aren't limited to one author or have a set end point in mind.





That's not the whole point, or is not always the whole point. Back in the Silver Age they maintained the status quo pretty much all the time and did experimental "what if" stories that played upon what people knew about the iconic set ups.

If you kill the Joker in continuity that needs to be dictated by other books and never allowed to end, your story is inevitably going to be undone and he will be back. Like in the dumbest way possible. Whereas your story will be left alone in something like the Black Lable, and the characters will have to live with the consequences after the story ends. They won't in the main continuity, things will inevitably re-set. There will be the illusion of change, but it will not last forever.

Death of Superman created an important moment in time, created both Steel, Superboy, and Cyborg Superman who went off to do their own stories. In the real world it had no effect but in the fictional universe it's a pretty big deal.

The whole point is to not have consistent character growth, I wonder why I read comics then? The Silver Age was also Superhero stories doing whatever the hell they wanted because superhero comics fell out of popularity to sci-fi, romances, and westerns. Superhero books then start incorporating more of those genres and doing other weird and crazy ideas to catch readers attention like Batman and Robin fighting alien plants, Bat-Baby, Wonder Tot, Superman's unlimited and ever changing powers, etc. Characters like Hal and Barry were created to incorporate more of the popular outlandish elements of other stories out there.

I want more of the fun and strangeness and one off stories like the Silver Age but that was a time period of just randomness and trying to boost the genre back up. There was very little status quo if any, Bruce Wayne was rich and had Dick around, Clark was a reporter that had Jimmy and Lois around, that was about it.

This whole jaded look at comic book death should be firmly placed with the current heads of DC. These are the guys that brought back Ollie, Barry, Hal and so on. You had your Jean Grey's and Superman who had big deaths and returns before but now Death is just seen as an annoyance for fans who are picking up books rather than an actual conclusion. This careless idea that nothing matters hurts the industry, if I know this story won't end up mattering why would I want to pick it up? I've advocated for Elseworld lines where writers can do anything unrestricted but the main DC should be like that too but have strict ways about going about the more extreme ideas. Flashpoint for example was just going to be a Flash story until they turned it into a crappy reboot story, this idea sends Barry to an alternate timeline filled with crazy ideas. DC has all of the time, space, and the multiverse to play with. If you want to do something DC's editors should get together and refine the story and make it a big deal if it's something big otherwise just set it somewhere in the multiverse.

[Timothy Hunter]

My ideas (Part 2)

1> Add a chatroom to DC's website: provide an official space for readers to discuss the titles and characters.

I know this is hypocritical of me to say, considering that I am using an online forum right now, but aren't chat rooms a tad outdated?

In spite of this, your ideas are pretty good.

[Restingvoice]

I am not trying to be harsh but I would say to those writers why write for the Big 2 then? You know when you sign on that continuity is a part of the landscape and is a key feature of Big 2 comic storytelling. I would also say you could still tell those stories but they will be outside continuity in an Elseworlds or a What If book. If you have a very specific story you want to tell there are other options besides screwing up continuity for your one story

Thing is, DC themselves don't care that much about maintaining continuity or they rely on writer to pay attention to continuity for them. Johns went in and made Superboy a Lex-Clark clone then make COIE heroes villains. Morrison went in and bring Silver Age into a world that shouldn't have them then reintroduce Damian even though he didn't remember how his conception went. So on and so forth, DC let them.

So the reason I'm also kinda against continuity is because both the writer find them confining and DC themselves don't really maintain it, so why bother? Just let it be free. It's either all continuity or no continuity to me. I can't do half and half, having to keep track on which story is in continuity or not throughout different monthly titles. That's a chore where reading comics is supposed to be entertainment.

I love continuity, but it's clear to me that DC just doesn't have the ability or willingness to maintain its consistency. They have too many characters, too many history, and writers with different visions.

[reni344]

Thing is, DC themselves don't care that much about maintaining continuity or they rely on writer to pay attention to continuity for them. Johns went in and made Superboy a Lex-Clark clone then make COIE heroes villains. Morrison went in and bring Silver Age into a world that shouldn't have them then reintroduce Damian even though he didn't remember how his conception went. So on and so forth, DC let them.

So the reason I'm also kinda against continuity is because both the writer find them confining and DC themselves don't really maintain it, so why bother? Just let it be free. It's either all continuity or no continuity to me. I can't do half and half, having to keep track on which story is in continuity or not throughout different monthly titles. That's a chore where reading comics is supposed to be entertainment.

I love continuity, but it's clear to me that DC just doesn't have the ability or willingness to maintain its consistency. They have too many characters, too many history, and writers with different visions.

When I think of people who ignore continuity I don't think of Geoff Johns or Grant Morrison. Johns for his part seems to be an expert at taking story points that were not developed and tackling them. At the end of COIE those characters were still alive so he was free to use them as he wished later on making them villains did not screw up continuity if you want to say its bad for the characters that is one thing but it did not screw up continuity the same with Superboy, Lex can be part of his DNA it does not change him coming from Cadmus. Morrison for his part in Batman RIP explained that the Silver Age happened but was a result hallucinogens I don't see how that hurts continuity. All that does is explain why those stories are so odd and different from what we know as modern Batman. Grant Morrison made a mistake with Damian's orgin but it was a honest mistake and has since been corrected.

I think Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns don't see continuity as a shackle like other writers in fact they are the some of the best at using it because for them all of it happened and therefore can be used at anytime. You don't have to like the results of them using continuity but I think they screw up far less than other writers who just ignore it.

[byrd156]

When I think of people who ignore continuity I don't think of Geoff Johns or Grant Morrison. Johns for his part seems to be an expert at taking story points that were not developed and tackling them. At the end of COIE those characters were still alive so he was free to use them as he wished later on making them villains did not screw up continuity if you want to say its bad for the characters that is one thing but it did not screw up continuity the same with Superboy, Lex can be part of his DNA it does not change him coming from Cadmus. Morrison for his part in Batman RIP explained that the Silver Age happened but was a result hallucinogens I don't see how that hurts continuity. All that does is explain why those stories are so odd and different from what we know as modern Batman. Grant Morrison made a mistake with Damian's orgin but it was a honest mistake and has since been corrected.

I think Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns don't see continuity as a shackle like other writers in fact they are the some of the best at using it because for them all of it happened and therefore can be used at anytime. You don't have to like the results of them using continuity but I think they screw up far less than other writers who just ignore it.

People like Johns and Morrison know how to incorporate and build off of what came before. Johns has a habit of overly retconning stuff but his heart is in the right place. Writers like these ooze passion and care in their work, I want to keep reading them because I want to see what they do next.

I hate that the idea of continuity is somehow a shackle to the past that can't move characters forward. That makes no damn sense to me, you need to build off of yourself in comics. You need to know where you have been so you can go do new things or revisit things with new perspectives.

[Kaijudo]

1. Barry Allen is dead again. Honestly, he worked best serving as an inspiration to Wally West, who would be the main Flash in the DCU.

2. Ted Kord is Blue Beetle. Jaime Reyes is called Scarab now and is part of the Teen Titans.

3. The Justice League is less adherent to the concept of the Big 7 and features a line-up representing all of its eras. Cyborg is a member, having graduated to its ranks after a long an lengthy tenure in the Teen Titans.

4. The JSA and Legion are both back and in play, though both line-ups are reflective of the high points of their Pre-Flashpoint incarnations.

5. Billy Batson says the WORD "Shazam" to turn into Captain Marvel. Mary and Billy are his only family members.

6. More focus on characters acquired by other companies...the Ray, Blue Beetle, and Captain Marvel have their own titles, and folks like Captain Atom, Phantom Lady, Bullet-Man and more are prominently featured in team books across the line. Also, Peacemaker and Spy-Smasher star in a "buddy cop" book. They do NOT get along.

7. On the other side of the coin, the Wildstorm characters would only exist on an alternate Earth and would serve in the same capacity to the DCU proper as the Watchmen characters currently are. The Watchmen would not be a part of the DCU in any way, shape or form.

8. The "Vertigo" characters would remain entrenched in the DCU, but would mostly keep to themselves, so that any appearance outside their books would make for a big deal.

9. Animal Man, Harley Quinn, and Blue Devil would all go back to their costumes/appearances prior to the New 52.

10. There's a Green Lantern Corps and a Sinestro Corps. That's it. Also, a new protector of Sector 2814 would be named, an alien from another world. All of the Earth-based GLs would be temporarily stripped of their rings.

11. There would be a greater emphasis on team books in order to allow more characters to shine, including a new title called FORGOTTEN HEROES to introduce readers to a team of characters who might not've had a lot of focus for the last 10-50 years.

12. More period books, like JONAH HEX, SGT ROCK, and ARAK, including one set pre-WWII and featuring the earliest mystery men characters, like Sandman and Crimson Avenger. And more pure sci-fi and fantasy books, like CLAW THE CONQUEROR, WARLORD, and ADAM STRANGE.

13. A new Secret Society of Super-Villains would form and become MAJOR players in the DCU, reflecting their status in the VILLAINY INC mini-series but becoming a much more permanent feature.

That's all I've got for now!

[SiegePerilous02]

Death of Superman created an important moment in time, created both Steel, Superboy, and Cyborg Superman who went off to do their own stories. In the real world it had no effect but in the fictional universe it's a pretty big deal.

Clark is unchanged by the experience of death, therefore the story's impact on him isn't that great. Those other characters happened to be introduced in that story, but as the New 52, S:TAS and YJ show, you can introduce Steel and Superboy without doing DOS first.

The whole point is to not have consistent character growth, I wonder why I read comics then?

I said it wasn't always the whole point. And with the big iconic characters, the ones the rest of them revolve around and several of which (like the sidekicks) depends upon to exist, how much character development is there really? How much have Clark, Bruce, Diana and others really changed? Do they even need to? Bruce became more of an asshole over the years, but that's pretty much it.

Character growth isn't consistent in American comics, even among the non-iconic characters with more wiggle room. Not every issues is moving forward some grand narrative, a lot of it is just standard fare that uses the current status quo until things need a shake up.

I want more of the fun and strangeness and one off stories like the Silver Age but that was a time period of just randomness and trying to boost the genre back up. There was very little status quo if any, Bruce Wayne was rich and had Dick around, Clark was a reporter that had Jimmy and Lois around, that was about it.

The status quo is that Bruce Wayne is Batman and Dick Grayson is Robin, and they fought the likes of the Joker, Two-Face, the Penguin, etc . The status quo in the 90s was that...Bruce Wayne was Batman but now Tim Drake as Robin fighting the likes of the Joker, Two-Face, the Penguin, etc, and Dick was Nightwing over in Bludhaven. Notice how Bruce's position didn't change that much, but he's the most popular/marketable one? And that setup lasted for a while before it needed a shake up. There wasn't constant character development.

With Superman, Clark was and is a reporter, always will be. Lois and Jimmy are still around, he's just married to Lois. The same Daily Planet staff is still around, same major villains, a Supergirl, etc.

If you reboot either of these characters and trim the fat, or tell a stand alone story with just the iconic basics, or have to trim everything down for an adaptation, neither loses much. Same with the likes of Wonder Woman, Billy Batson or Aquaman. Aquaman's New 52 reboot wasn't derided that much because although it rebooted everything, everyone was still in their iconic roles. Wonder Woman gets rebooted all the time which is a major problem, but she doesn't develop. She's larger than life, she doesn't need to. There is excitment for the new Shazam ongoing, but nobody seems to be clamoring for specific stories and events to be restored for character development purposes. The iconic trappings are evidently enough.

This whole jaded look at comic book death should be firmly placed with the current heads of DC. These are the guys that brought back Ollie, Barry, Hal and so on. You had your Jean Grey's and Superman who had big deaths and returns before but now Death is just seen as an annoyance for fans who are picking up books rather than an actual conclusion. This careless idea that nothing matters hurts the industry, if I know this story won't end up mattering why would I want to pick it up?

Jean's death being undone, at least in the way it was, was the biggest insult because hers was the only death featured in a story worth a damn. I think death was officially made meaningless with her resurrection. Clark's was a waste of time because everyone knew he wouldn't stay dead. once you get past those, the damage is done and the rest of them are kind of harmless. We can't blame the current heads of DC for that, especially as Hal's lead a lot of success for the GL mythos, so that was a brilliant business decision.

[Timothy Hunter]

Now what I would do, that I think would boost the status of the comic industry, would be for one of the big two (DC in this case) to abandon specialty comic book stores and instead shift priorities to more mainstream locales. This would be similar to what DC Conics is doing with Walmart, but on a much more wider scale. Imagine every grocery store you go to, there would be a rack of Batman, Wonder Woman, and Superman comics. Hell, maybe DC could sell their comics in movie theaters as well. After an average joe watches Aquaman, he can pick up an Aquaman comic in the front entrance.

[Buried Alien]

1. Barry Allen is dead again. Honestly, he worked best serving as an inspiration to Wally West, who would be the main Flash in the DCU.

I'd automatically veto everything else on that point alone.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)