How can it?
When the scene between Superman and Lois on top of the daily planet and the flight scene is better than all of Man of Steel combined?
How can it?
When the scene between Superman and Lois on top of the daily planet and the flight scene is better than all of Man of Steel combined?
The flight scene is overrated.
And MOS is better because it at least tried to create its own vision. Controversial to some as it may be, it was its own thing, and largely succeeded on those grounds even if we didn't know at the time the plan was already to unknowingly sabotage that work going forward. Superman Returns was an abject failure the very second Singer decided it was going to be a quasi-sequel to Superman: The Movie and Superman II. It was DOA then and there.
"They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El
I really love the part when instead of having a conversation with Lois, Superman decided to use his super vision and super hearing to eavesdrop on her conversation with Richard White.
Clearly, this is a matter of taste, but you really want us to go tit for tat about which scenes in each movie are good/bad?
Because dragging Luthor out as the main villain again was such an innovative and groundbreaking idea.
I would say a copy/paste is an exaggeration. Both films were written by the same guy, there's going to be similarities. But they are their own stories, But what I really meant was that it told its own, standalone Superman story (again, with at the time knowledge of their "sequel" plans notwithstanding), for a modern audience. For me, that will always make it better than SR just purely by default. That's how bad an idea Singer's plan was.
Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-21-2018 at 01:08 PM.
"They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El
I've said this before, but I see MoS and SR as being in opposite ditches in the same road. Both wanted to be seen as more serious (which is fine): SR did it with little fighting action but great looking rescues, MoS was overboard on fighting and not as great with rescues (note that I didn't say there weren't any). SR tried to copy Donner but only did so superficially (imo) - I used to think MoS tried too hard to be it's own thing, but the Nolan analogy is pretty apt in that they tried to do what Nolan did to Batman, but also missed (also imo) what made those work.
I've gone into this in much more detail, but if you could take the best of MoS and SR and put them into one film, you could possibly still have a great Superman movie.
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Superman Returns has Superman essentially break up a family that was actually working fine. He also eavesdrops on a private conversation between a couple. In SR, Clark didn't respect personal boundaries if he thought they shouldn't apply to him because, well, she's Lois. He was kind of creepy. That movie had a whole host of problems too.
The plane scene is a great clip on YouTube. It doesn't save the movie, though.
I don't care much for either of them, frankly. Objectively, Man of Steel might be better, but I can't get over the neck snap, Jonathan Kent and the destruction of Metropolis.
Throwing Jonathan Kent under the bus was the only questionable thing for me, but I loved how doing that resulted in Clark deciding to be Superman on his own accord, not just because he happened to be raised by the right parents. I've said it before in another thread, but I loved the nature over nurture idea in Man of Steel. It was different, and it made Superman stronger in my eyes.
Both the killing and destruction of Metropolis have been done in comics, so I have absolutely no problem with that. I thought the action scenes in MoS were thrilling, and I felt it "realistically" depicted what would happen if alien gods clashed above the earth.
Superman Returns was ok for me at the time because it had been almost 20 years since we got a Superman movie, but the passage of time has diminished it from ok/average to "footnote" for me. I simply don't think about it.
Last edited by Comic-Reader Lad; 09-21-2018 at 02:30 PM.
*shrug*
If the Superman movie line was a living thing, 2013 would be about the time its TRT kicked in.
The plane sequence in SR doesn't do anything for me.
Man of Steel is a much better flick.
Another one of these threads...?
Anyway-- Both are poor, but while MoS is much closer to my ideal Superman movie on paper, the execution is so woefully bad that I've never felt the need to revisit it after I bought the bluray (bought out of loyalty to the character, more than anything). In contrast, while SR is just outright odd on paper, I tend to get a lot more pleasure out of watching it.
First half of MOS is made of awesome. The entirety of SR is made of bore. The oilrig rescue makes the entirety of SR pale in comparison.
"By force of will he turns his gaze upon the seething horror bellow us on the hillside.
Yes, he feels the icy touch of fear, but he is not cowed. He is Superman!"