X-Men #1 Discussion Thread [Spoilers]

[Gray Lensman]

I will put this way all 3 of out for 4 have been dead "they could easily go life is too short not to be with ones you love". Yeah it is out of character for Wolverine and Cyclops but it just needs to be in character for Jean. If Jeans says she wants both of them or doesn't want to have to choose. She has the ultimate power to also go if the two of don't agree I will be fine by myself. Given the choice between none or sharing they would pick sharing. Emma is similar position with Cyclops, She knows he isn't leaving Jean so she can pick to share or have no Cyclops at all.

I don't think they will be official agreement thing, I think everybody is kinda just looking the other way thing. I don't care that much about it I do see certain the humor in it because it effectively kills the shipping wars on the forums.

Actually, I think all 4 of them have been dead, it's just that Emma wasn't dead for very long. A few issues under Morrison, in the Murder in the Mansion arc. She was shattered into a gazillion pieces with a diamond bullet fired at her flaw by Beak, although he was puppeteered by Esme at the time. Jean eventually put her back together with the Power of the Phoenix.

[JKtheMac]

The room chart is just for the meta of watching you all squirm. It's not as if they couldn't beer-share with disconnected rooms. By the same token, the connected rooms don't actually mean anything. It's for the chuckles. Hickman and the gang are cracking themselves up right now.

On the contrary, those of us who are embracing the new polyamorous culture are in on the joke.

[Wolverine12]

Not as strong of a start as I expected based on how great HoX/PoX was but definitely and above average issue. The story was great, the dialogue was mostly good with some big misses and the art was solid. Overall a 4/5 stars for me.

Side note: Let's try and play nice please. A lot of unnecessary posts in this thread regarding the living arrangements at the Summer's house. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's gross, just because someone thinks its gross doesn't mean you get to be an ass.

[mike627]

All I will say to Logan Jean and Scott's living arrangement is there's a whole lotta love there.Throw Emma in there!

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

This was a good read. Is there a word for something that interests you while making you feel uncomfortable? I like the adventure, the conflict, the characters, and the warm interactions. At the same time, I resolutely despise and renounce the very concept of genetic exceptionalism embraced by this book. I also dislike the reactionary tone the mutants adopt when speaking of humanity. They all sound like jilted lovers, eager to prove they've moved past mankind, and are better off without it, but they just can't stop looking back. "We're sooo much better. So much more evolved. It's ouuuur time. Hey, did humanity hear us say that? They did? Ohhhhhh, what did their face look like? Uh, not that I care."

Homo Superior? More like Homo Tsundere.

I definitely get what you mean, especially around characters like Magneto and Polaris. I mean, sure, it isn't out of character for the former of those two at least, but when it's not being checked and even sort of endorsed/adopted by characters like Storm and Cyclops...hell, even the crowd that swarms around the sing Magneto's praises...

Something doesn't sit right with me about it; but I can't tell if, as another user has been kind enough to point out and explain to me, they're speaking in a very abstract manner about humanity or just outright disparaging them altogether...? I mean, on the one hand Scott seems uncomfortable with his father making light of being just a "simpleminded human" (I think...the art made it hard to tell?) but then on the other he doesn't seem too phased when other characters generalise in the same manner?

I dunno. On the one hand I understand and get the reactionary response and the necessity to adopt a more outright stance on mutant pride, on the other...I don't wanna see them all veer into idealistic extremism....

[Londo Bellian]

At the same time, I resolutely despise and renounce the very concept of genetic exceptionalism embraced by this book. I also dislike the reactionary tone the mutants adopt when speaking of humanity. They all sound like jilted lovers, eager to prove they've moved past mankind, and are better off without it, but they just can't stop looking back. "We're sooo much better. So much more evolved. It's ouuuur time. Hey, did humanity hear us say that? They did? Ohhhhhh, what did their face look like? Uh, not that I care."

Homo Superior? More like Homo Tsundere.

The mutants were acting like Eldar, and it didn't help that the Orchis people in desperation actually turned themselves into Gorilla-like Post-humans in their last stand, becoming the Mutaneldar's Mon-keighs.

I definitely get what you mean, especially around characters like Magneto and Polaris. I mean, sure, it isn't out of character for the former of those two at least, but when it's not being checked and even sort of endorsed/adopted by characters like Storm and Cyclops...hell, even the crowd that swarms around the sing Magneto's praises...

Something doesn't sit right with me about it; but I can't tell if, as another user has been kind enough to point out and explain to me, they're speaking in a very abstract manner about humanity or just outright disparaging them altogether...? I mean, on the one hand Scott seems uncomfortable with his father making light of being just a "simpleminded human" (I think...the art made it hard to tell?) but then on the other he doesn't seem too phased when other characters generalise in the same manner?

I dunno. On the one hand I understand and get the reactionary response and the necessity to adopt a more outright stance on mutant pride, on the other...I don't wanna see them all veer into idealistic extremism....

That's concerning too, if the remaining human friends and relations the X-Men have contact with now tend to over-deprecate themselves in conversation, lamp-shading their inherent Mon-Keigh inferiority to their Mutanteldar-born relatives/buddies. Will this be a trend?

Well, massas, you be da boss men now and us sapiens like be lickin yer boots! That's a paraphrase of Cary Elwes' dialogue from "Glory."

[tuck frump]

Madelyne only exists because of Jean, she looked and sounded exactly like jean and she was created exactly to be a clone (or a reincarnation).
I really don't see my fave ruining anyone else, this case is completely different.
And I want a happy ending for her instead of endless sacrifice with x-men. I don't see how another redhead like Jean (we already have hope and rachel) can add anything, we have far more interesting characters

Madelyne was literally supposed to be her own character, her personality was nothing like Jean. All of that was retconned away and her character was assassinated to make room for Jean. How is that not ruining her?

I thought it was good. A bit more down to earth stuff compared to everything that went on during house of x. Hickman again doing a fantastic job of placing the reader in a position of having to choose sides. I can’t remember the last time a comic had me understanding and emphasizing with two opposing sides as much as this story has. Regardless of if you are on team human or team mutant you aren’t necessarily wrong. Love that Hickman is doing that.

Say whut now? Theres no relatable or redeeming side to Orchis. The killer robot was disgusted at the notion theyre employing nazi scientists. Whom they let experiment on children. Hickman already showed all their schemes end with machines taking over the world anyway and humans being replaced by Homo Novissima. Theyre deliberately screwing their own future over to ensure mutants will suffer as much as possible. Whats sympathetic abt that?

Human society has this view that monogamy is the best and right way to have a relationships.

Not all cultures in the world view monogamy as the norm. Implying straying from that is disgusting or freaky is just admitting you view the culture you grew up in as superior to those others. Not a good look, especially for an Xfan.

Yeah it is out of character for Wolverine and Cyclops but it just needs to be in character for Jean.

its very in character for both Scott and Logan to want this at this point in their lives. Jean was dead for years, they were in love with other people (Emma, Melita, Storm) but at the same time they never got over her. Then they see each other, how the other is still very much in love with Jean, how close that makes them and at the same time forever apart (their fight in Schism started when Logan brought Jean up). Now Jean is back, they've accepted that they can love more then one person at a time, so why couldnt she? They care and love and respect each other but theres always an ugly side rearing its head when theyre in competition for her, so how to get rid of it? Scott said to Chris he wanted to focus on the things that make him want to live but on a more practical note, him and Logan need to get along considering their importance among the XMen and how delicate their situation is atm. Sharing was always the solution.

Edit: it was Scott who brought up Jean during Schism. Anyway men are dumb.

[Omega Alpha]

It seems a giant and also ressurrection isnt forever, they gonna dier. Immortaliy for me would mean slow down and pick better relationships

Actually, nothing in universe indicates the resurrections can't go on forever.

And the fact one's immortal means he can take more risks, not less.

[powerpax]

AFAIC the reason some Jean fans keep pushing for Madelyne to be retconned into "just an aspect of Jean" or "essentially Jean" is because they want the sin of Scott leaving his wife and baby for his high school girlfriend - and Jean's part in that - wiped away. Easier to erase Maddy if you fully subsume her to Jean. It's something the X-books certainly tried at the time of Inferno, but something Claremont never fully allowed. Madelyne is the reason Scott was roasted for most the '90s and onward by many fans because of that story. It's the same reason I never bought into Scott and Jean's relationship again, not through my whole adolescence into adulthood, until Morrison deconstructed it. His story recognized that their seemingly perfect foundation was built on a false pretense and issues they had run from facing - Scott's scars from the Apocalypse/Twelve saga and Jean's growing re-ascension to godhood were just the latest in a long line that began with how Scott treated Madelyne and Nathan. Making Scott and Jean fallible again in the early 2000s made them relatable and rootable again for me, though that did coincide with Jean dying and Scott moving on with a pairing I preferred. As of now, I have no beef with either of them.

Anyway, I also think Maddy and Jean's personalities were considerably different, especially later on but still before the Goblyn Queen. Assuming we see her I hope that's dealt with. If Hickman sought to fully unify Madelyne and Jean in a new way I'd be open to it, but it would depend on execution. He clearly is not interested in whitewashing the past like the Bob Harras crew of the '90s. And if Jean, Scott, Logan and Emma have found a new way to coexist and explore themselves - especially Jean, who's always had to wall off so much - I say go for it.

I do hope we see Ororo and Logan touch on their past at some point. That's the relationship I prefer for both of them, though it seems to be off again now.

[JKtheMac]

This was a good read. Is there a word for something that interests you while making you feel uncomfortable? I like the adventure, the conflict, the characters, and the warm interactions. At the same time, I resolutely despise and renounce the very concept of genetic exceptionalism embraced by this book. I also dislike the reactionary tone the mutants adopt when speaking of humanity. They all sound like jilted lovers, eager to prove they've moved past mankind, and are better off without it, but they just can't stop looking back. "We're sooo much better. So much more evolved. It's ouuuur time. Hey, did humanity hear us say that? They did? Ohhhhhh, what did their face look like? Uh, not that I care."

Homo Superior? More like Homo Tsundere.

I think you are looking for ‘dramatic irony’ that feeling that the characters don’t quite realise that something is wrong or off but you as a reader know that something is coming and you are enjoying that tension between the perspectives

[JKtheMac]

AFAIC the reason some Jean fans keep pushing for Madelyne to be retconned into "just an aspect of Jean" or "essentially Jean" is because they want the sin of Scott leaving his wife and baby for his high school girlfriend - and Jean's part in that - wiped away.

Well that is understandable when your wife is an animated golem don’t you think? Just perhaps Scott sensed something was wrong. I mean at the time quite a few other characters thought something was wrong.

When you combine that with the way her memories were reintegrated into Jean then just perhaps it is less wishful thinking and actually canonical.

I have been thinking that the costume choice for Jean actually is a reference to Inferno. But I haven’t read that stuff for decades and oddly the prospect doesn’t sound tempting.

[powerpax]

Well that is understandable when your wife is an animated golem don’t you think?

A coy turn of phrase, but no, what Moira used on Muir Isle in 2000-2001 was a Shi'ar golem controlled by a host personality/operator. Madelyne was a clone whose own personality ultimately evolved into its own distinction - no more or less than any other autonomous clone in the Marvel Universe. Case in point: Ben Reilly, Kaine, Laura Kinney/X-23 (though there is room for nuance on that point), Gabby/Honey Badger, Evan Sabahnur, and a fair number of others I can't name offhand.

I mean at the time quite a few other characters thought something was wrong.

For a few issues. Then they all came around and accepted her as her own person.

When you combine that with the way her memories were reintegrated into Jean then just perhaps it is less wishful thinking and actually canonical.

And yet, never treated as such - not then by the writer, and not today. While Madelyne is certainly a clone of Jean, they have always been presented as distinct and different people. And I can count the amount of times Jean has referred to having Maddy's memories (or any aspect of her personality) on one hand or less.

[powerpax]

I have been thinking that the costume choice for Jean actually is a reference to Inferno. But I haven’t read that stuff for decades and oddly the prospect doesn’t sound tempting.

Not likely. For two reasons: First, Hickman clearly states in his new interview that the linkage to the outfit is the most famous story in which Jean re-donned the costume. That is the Dark Phoenix Saga. Second, Jean only wore a piece of this costume in Inferno on the astral plane. Her full costuming there was a melange of many different outfits, including the school uniform and the Marvel Girl mask and hair.

[JKtheMac]

Not likely. For two reasons: First, Hickman clearly states in his new interview that the linkage to the outfit is the most famous story in which Jean re-donned the costume. That is the Dark Phoenix Saga. Second, Jean only wore a piece of this costume in Inferno on the astral plane. Her full costuming there was a melange of many different outfits, including the school uniform and the Marvel Girl mask and hair.

And as I have pointed out elsewhere it obviously isn’t a reference to the DPS precisely because he said fans didn’t realise the reference, and just about everyone was saying it was a reference to the DPS so it cant be.

[powerpax]

And as I have pointed out elsewhere it obviously isn’t a reference to the DPS precisely because he said fans didn’t realise the reference, and just about everyone was saying it was a reference to the DPS so it cant be.

No, here's where you're extrapolating, because the fact is we don't know to which fans he was referring, firstly. He is likely simply referencing the fact that no one picked up on it in the questions used for that Q&A, or in any random sampling of reactions on social media. Some fans are simply very thick on this stuff; he's not talking directly to CBR. Unless you intend to argue that Inferno is more famous than the Dark Phoenix Saga, which is nonsense, and also, she didn't wear it there.