Champions Appreciation 2021

[Spiderfan001]

Time will tell. I see where it's going. Do you?

I see the book getting cancelled multiple times.I see avg. to bad stories.I see barely anyone talking about it.I don't see Marvel promoting it as their featured thing.
What do you see?

Also please tell me how you think it still sells well digitally , even though we can see via treatment of them by Marvel it's not.Please address each point I made(there are 4) and make excuses as to why it's all because of shops and not the actual book

[jwatson]

I see the book getting cancelled multiple times.I see avg. to bad stories.I see barely anyone talking about it.I don't see Marvel promoting it as their featured thing.
What do you see?

Also please tell me how you think it still sells well digitally , even though we can see via treatment of them by Marvel it's not.Please address each point I made(there are 4) and make excuses as to why it's all because of shops and not the actual book

No thanks i've said what i've needed to say. I'll let time do the rest. You can't expect detail answers when you aren't giving any. Everything you have stated has been either opinion or emotion. What people need to read i've already posted.

[Spiderfan001]

No thanks i've said what i've needed to say. I'll let time do the rest. You can't expect detail answers when you aren't giving any. Everything you have stated has been either opinion or emotion. What people need to read i've already posted.

Yes, the 4 points showing treatment of Champions by Marvel are my "opinion".The fact that comic book owners know how to do business better than us is an "opinion".The fact that putting thousands out of jobs is me being "emotional".The fact that not everyone is r*cist or s*xist is my "opinion".The fact that digital comics already exist in a big way is my "opinion".The fact that consumers don't owe Marvel anything if they don't want to but a comic is my "opinion".
.
You have said Champions will do great digitally if comic shops are removed, why hasn't it been doing even just good now(already shown why it's not)?

Agreed, you haven't really proven anything and we both will just go in circles.I've also posted what I think I needed to, although I did want to hear your reasonings for the 4 points I made, can't really dodge specific questions but ig you know that.

No hard feelings, enjoy these comics

[mreddie]

Doesn't matter, what's done is done, if Marvel announces a youth line on MU, I'll get it though there. LCS shops and the system would need a drastic overhaul for these books to matter but Marvel and their editorial want it to be 1991 again.

[jwatson]

Champions, now with Miles added.

Also one of my fave songs. "Cause we areeeeeee the chaaaaaaaaaaaaamppioooooooonsssss oooooooof the wooooooooorld!"

[CosmiComic]

Doesn't matter, what's done is done, if Marvel announces a youth line on MU, I'll get it though there. LCS shops and the system would need a drastic overhaul for these books to matter but Marvel and their editorial want it to be 1991 again.

At least it's not the '80s

[Digifiend]

Also based on your own posts wouldn't shop keeps have an easier time knowing what to order if it was released digitally first because then they would have a better idea of what the actual consumer wants rather than what they think the consumer wants so marvel could make more money upfront and stores can "waste" less money down the line. There is a lot that can be done.

They had a chance to do that when the pandemic caused all print deliveries to be cancelled for a couple of months (Diamond were punished for that by Marvel and DC both taking their business elsewhere). They didn't do it.

If they are released digitally first then many people who are comic enthusiasts will buy it there, it would be a major blow to comic shops.

And this is why they didn't do it.

I can't believe this thread has had so many posts in the last few hours. And it's just going around in circles...

[Huntsman Spider]

Champions, now with Miles added.

Also one of my fave songs. "Cause we areeeeeee the chaaaaaaaaaaaaamppioooooooonsssss oooooooof the wooooooooorld!"

This one is great, too. Thanks for sharing it here, and again, I'll be wishing you the best of luck with your future ventures --- including that op-ed whenever you're able to write it.

They had a chance to do that when the pandemic caused all print deliveries to be cancelled for a couple of months (Diamond were punished for that by Marvel and DC both taking their business elsewhere). They didn't do it.
And this is why they didn't do it.

I can't believe this thread has had so many posts in the last few hours. And it's just going around in circles...

Yeah, I hate when that happens.

[Drops Of Venus]

Part of the issue could be they are not being portrayed as individuals in the team book. Even though There is not a current Nova book...what is going on with his personal life? Is he still trying to find his dad? Things like that. In a team book that does not get explored due to what the Team is doing. If they had a sub plot in Champs that had Sam still in touch with GoTG, Beta Ray Bill, Cosmo trying to get leads on his father with a rescue mission being a story line for either the team as a whole...or a sub plot for Sam alone while the team is doing other stuff...it might bring in more people.

I totally agree that Sam needs to go back to the direction he was in before. It's kinda ridiculous how his very important father plot was just seemingly put on hold. But I don't know if Champions was ever going to be the book to address that. Champions is essentially what New Warriors was back in the 90s, meaning that Marvel also probably wants Sam to be what Rich was back then: an Earth-based Nova. And like it or not, that is going to hold him back from some stories. For the Sam fans who fell in love with the character through his solo books, I fear Champions was never gonna provide the kind of content they wanted. Sam is the one character who would actually benefit from moving on from the Champions and going to a bigger team, IMO.

Rider being inserted into the book had nothing to do with Marvel listening to the fans (Since when does Marvel ever listen to fans? This is a company that follows Stan Lee's saying of "Never give the fans what they think they want" to the letter) and more to do with Sam's sales bottoming out and Marvel tossing a Hail Mary. It didn't work. Because Rider fans aren't willing to put up with Sam to get Rider. And because Marvel never learns it's lesson get ready for everyone to throw a fit when the Wendell Vaughn Quasar dies LOL.

That is just a convenient excuse some fans like to use to save face and not admit that Marvel gave the fans what they wanted, and the book flopped so hard it had the worst sales of any modern Nova book. I repeat: Rich Rider came back after years, and not only he didn't move the needle, but completely tanked the book. So none of the Rich fans who were demanding his return showed up to support the book, and it's all Sam's fault? Please. The more likely scenario is that Rich fans DID show up to support the book, but they were simply a vocal minority and there wasn't much of an audience for a monthly Nova book in the Direct Market anymore, maybe because most of the people who were supporting a Nova book before lost interest with each relaunch.

And yeah, I'm sure all 12 fans of Quasar are gonna throw a fit if he dies. Marvel will be devastated. Sales will never be the same because of Quasar. lol

Doesn't matter, what's done is done, if Marvel announces a youth line on MU, I'll get it though there. LCS shops and the system would need a drastic overhaul for these books to matter but Marvel and their editorial want it to be 1991 again.

This whole new initiative on MU could actually be a good place to give the Champions characters more books to appear. I mean, if even Jeff The Landshark could get a book there...

[skyvolt2000]

I can't believe this thread has had so many posts in the last few hours. And it's just going around in circles...

Well if folks will stop trying to blame every single book that is not a certain demographic and male for comic book stores closing-we wouldn't see a lot of posts.

Stan Lee's saying of "Never give the fans what they think they want" to the letter) and more to do with Sam's sales bottoming out and Marvel tossing a Hail Mary. It didn't work. Because Rider fans aren't willing to put up with Sam to get Rider.

Well we got vocal minorities screaming diverse books should not exist.
And I would toss in for Sam-I had no idea Sam was Nova until his 2016 series. Why? Because no stores around here STOCKED his first run. As far as I can tell it was because it wasn't Rich.

Part of the issue could be they are not being portrayed as individuals in the team book. Even though There is not a current Nova book...what is going on with his personal life?

Try a Sam book and we all KNOW who is going to come out and throw FITS about.

The same folks who didn't support the last book.

Sam is being left behind to pander to a vocal minority.

[Frontier]

I totally agree that Sam needs to go back to the direction he was in before. It's kinda ridiculous how his very important father plot was just seemingly put on hold. But I don't know if Champions was ever going to be the book to address that. Champions is essentially what New Warriors was back in the 90s, meaning that Marvel also probably wants Sam to be what Rich was back then: an Earth-based Nova. And like it or not, that is going to hold him back from some stories. For the Sam fans who fell in love with the character through his solo books, I fear Champions was never gonna provide the kind of content they wanted. Sam is the one character who would actually benefit from moving on from the Champions and going to a bigger team, IMO.

Ironically the Champions books tend to be the only ones that actually care in Sam and invest in showing him off.

It's not like he's ever guaranteed to show up much in Miles or Kamala's books despite their friendship.

[Spiderfan001]

Well if folks will stop trying to blame every single book that is not a certain demographic and male for comic book stores closing-we wouldn't see a lot of posts.




Well we got vocal minorities screaming diverse books should not exist.
And I would toss in for Sam-I had no idea Sam was Nova until his 2016 series. Why? Because no stores around here STOCKED his first run. As far as I can tell it was because it wasn't Rich.



Try a Sam book and we all KNOW who is going to come out and throw FITS about.

The same folks who didn't support the last book.

Sam is being left behind to pander to a vocal minority.

There are people saying all comics should get digital release first, that's what will close stores.No one is blaming any one book for comic business going down, certainly not champions.

But they do.We have so many diversity books(a good thing btw), the problem is their sales.As many have pointed out Comic Shops aren't doing hot rn, and all this stuff is on the internet.How are you blaming comic book shops for low sales, when these comics sell digitally they don't do well either(as shown above).Marketing is Marvel's job, not the shops.

As Jwatson pointed, Marvel owes nothing to shops.Then Shops owe nothing to marvel.It's not their job to market all the comics, it their job to sell comics which have demand and will make them profit.

I did see an issue of his first run at my store, but it was long ago and I can't remember so can't really say anything.

And when has Marvel cared about "vocal minorities".People complained about OMD for more than a decade and they didn't care, because ASM was still selling great.Same w/Avengers rn.Both things were vocally hated by most fans but are still going.

If it is a minority problem and not a majority, then Sam's book should have sold well, right?

Just having trouble following this logic.Marvel hasn't cared about fan opinion as long as stuff sells, so if Sam sold they would keep him going.
If they stopped his book, then it's failing sales-wise(digital included).

Not a Richard fan, always been cool about Sam as Nova.Are you saying it's fans fault for not buying the book?In which case, fans don't owe marvel anything if they don't like the content of the comic.If Richard fans won't buy Sam(which is why you say the sales are low, at least that's what I'm making of this), then that's their choice.Then either marvel keeps them by keeping richard, or appeals to newer fans using the Sam.

An established loyal fanbase, vs one that has to be build from the ground up.The former is more appealing, specially since you can also appeal to new readers using Richard, but old Readers don't seem interested in Sam.

I'm not saying it's right as a practice, but is this what's happening?Or did I miss something.

Champions, now with Miles added.

Also one of my fave songs. "Cause we areeeeeee the chaaaaaaaaaaaaamppioooooooonsssss oooooooof the wooooooooorld!"

Great art, specially Kamala and Viv's stances

[Drops Of Venus]

Ironically the Champions books tend to be the only ones that actually care in Sam and invest in showing him off.

It's not like he's ever guaranteed to show up much in Miles or Kamala's books despite their friendship.

I'm not saying he doesn't get any good content on Champions, it's just... not really the content that moves his original story forward. Like I said, it's weird that we still don't have a conclusion to his dad's story, and I don't expect Champions to be the book to address that because they have other priorities. Zub was the only one who tried to expand the horizons of the book enough to get closer to revisit some of Sam's cosmic history with the Kaldera plot, but then his run got cut short and the Champions went back to their more basic premise. And now that that's over too, he needs somewhere to be.

I'm not expecting him to be a major supporting character on Miles' or Kamala's books either, but I think it makes a lot of sense to let him be with the Guardians Of The Galaxy, for example. Or at least let him rejoin the Avengers. He was the first Champion to be an Avenger, after all.

[Digifiend]

I totally agree that Sam needs to go back to the direction he was in before. It's kinda ridiculous how his very important father plot was just seemingly put on hold. But I don't know if Champions was ever going to be the book to address that. Champions is essentially what New Warriors was back in the 90s, meaning that Marvel also probably wants Sam to be what Rich was back then: an Earth-based Nova. And like it or not, that is going to hold him back from some stories. For the Sam fans who fell in love with the character through his solo books, I fear Champions was never gonna provide the kind of content they wanted. Sam is the one character who would actually benefit from moving on from the Champions and going to a bigger team, IMO.

This whole new initiative on MU could actually be a good place to give the Champions characters more books to appear. I mean, if even Jeff The Landshark could get a book there...

True, the last time the missing father plot came up was in ANAD Avengers, the last arc before Civil War II. I'd suggest he joins the Guardians of the Galaxy - but they already have a Nova.

And I agree about Marvel Unlimited Infinite Comics, they definitely could do something for that line.

I'm not expecting him to be a major supporting character on Miles' or Kamala's books either, but I think it makes a lot of sense to let him be with the Guardians Of The Galaxy, for example. Or at least let him rejoin the Avengers. He was the first Champion to be an Avenger, after all.

No he wasn't, he was the second (with Kamala and Miles being third and fourth). Amadeus Cho was an Avenger too, in the Dark Reign era Mighty Avengers book, back when he was the unpowered sidekick of Hercules. That team contained Stature and Vision from the Young Avengers too, and Cassie gave Amadeus use of an Ant-Man helmet.

[Frontier]

I'm not saying he doesn't get any good content on Champions, it's just... not really the content that moves his original story forward. Like I said, it's weird that we still don't have a conclusion to his dad's story, and I don't expect Champions to be the book to address that because they have other priorities. Zub was the only one who tried to expand the horizons of the book enough to get closer to revisit some of Sam's cosmic history with the Kaldera plot, but then his run got cut short and the Champions went back to their more basic premise. And now that that's over too, he needs somewhere to be.

I'm not expecting him to be a major supporting character on Miles' or Kamala's books either, but I think it makes a lot of sense to let him be with the Guardians Of The Galaxy, for example. Or at least let him rejoin the Avengers. He was the first Champion to be an Avenger, after all.

It's true that they haven't moved his story forward, but the books at least seemed invested in showing his character off and having him actually contribute. It's like the only book where him being friends with Miles and Kamala actually seems true.

I don't know much we're going to be seeing teen characters jumping onto adult teams.