How would you react to a Justice League team full of POC?

[Trey Strain]

Well, problem is that a lot of people feel this way whenever you include and feature a character of color. I mean, you heard the same sort of thing when Marvel introduced the new MS. MARVEL.

I think this really is an area where you have to be twice as good to be considered as good as....

Don't get me wrong. I think they should try something like that to see whether it would sell.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Skin color, seriously, some of you are so hung up on that.

For a lot of people, it's not really a choice.

[Aahz]

The problem with making new characters, especially for DC, is that they dont stick. Where's Batwoman right now? She's a relatively new character, extremely popular, with a solid publication history (her book was very well received) and where is she now? New characters almost never work, which is why DC race changes. I agree that what they did with Wally was terrible (the racial stereotyping more than the race change itself) but the alternative of making new characters isnt viable as the only method of diversification either. By all means, I want DC to make new characters, and I want those new characters to reflect the world we live in, but few, if any, will last more than a storyline (where are all the people from Batman Inc, or Aquaman's Others?). I feel like the *occasional* race change might be a necessary evil because DC is stuck between a rock and a hard place; their biggest names, created in less enlightened times, are sacred and untouchable, and no one gives new characters much of a shot. So....necessary evil, but one that has to be used extremely carefully, and done just right, or you end up with huge debacles like Wally.

I think a big with Batwoman, Batman Inc and other new batman Characters is that Batman already has a big support cast with very popular characters, which makes it very hard to add new ones and to give them screen time in the Big events, unless you really push them (like Harper and Duke) which will usually doesn't please the fans of the characters that get sidelined for them. And especially Batwoman had the problem that she had hardly any connection to the other characters of the franchise.

[j9ac9k]

Why are we buying into the notion that the options are "White" or "PoC?" - like all non-whites get lumped together. Regardless of your race, people should want to see diversity in general, because it's just good for the world. (yes, imo)

Interesting debate though ... I mean, if there were a mixed-race League, would anyone notice if there were no Latinos?(aside from Latinos) If there were a mixed-race League but there were no Asians, would there be a fuss? But a mixed-race League with no Caucasians....? To paraphrase the Joker, "People would lose their minds!" (there'd certainly be a bunch of people who would dismiss it outright and claim that there's a political agenda rather than an interest in telling good stories)

[BohemiaDrinker]

Why are we buying into the notion that the options are "White" or "PoC?" - like all non-whites get lumped together. Regardless of your race, people should want to see diversity in general, because it's just good for the world. (yes, imo)

That's actually what POC means, non-white. And then it gets tricky, because the term itself is born of a racist notion (Asians are not yellow, neither are native-americans red, yet, I learn those were the correct terms for their races in school (I **** you not) some 25 years ago. And the "person of color" bit seems to only be politically correct in majorly white countries, from what I understand; here in Brazil, it's a racist expression (basically that kind of Grandpa racism, where "people of color" is said instead of "black", because black would be offensive). So, yeah, POC, as I understand, is a the correct term in majorly white countries to "racial minorities"; but you can't really call them racial minorities in a globalized market because Chjina alone has over 1 billion people, and all that. A lot of this stuff - anything beyond genetics, I believe - depends on where you are in the World.

Interesting debate though ... I mean, if there were a mixed-race League, would anyone notice if there were no Latinos?(aside from Latinos) If there were a mixed-race League but there were no Asians, would there be a fuss? But a mixed-race League with no Caucasians....? To paraphrase the Joker, "People would lose their minds!" (there'd certainly be a bunch of people who would dismiss it outright and claim that there's a political agenda rather than an interest in telling good stories)

That's what I was saying. You assemble a team of seven people with the right skillset/experience combo out of the 7 billion in the world, and none of them is white (let's say white people are 20% of the world's population, for simplicity), why is that a big deal, or artificial at all?

[skyvolt2000]

That's what I was saying. You assemble a team of seven people with the right skillset/experience combo out of the 7 billion in the world, and none of them is white (let's say white people are 20% of the world's population, for simplicity), why is that a big deal, or artificial at all?

Because the assumption is those skill sets would never be found in a minority.

Because those stories where those minorities can show how powerful they are either have never been written or are in books that have yet to be reprinted.

Aside from Static saving the universe 22 years ago in a crossover with Superman, Superboy & Steel-what minority has saved the day in a crossover or big event at Marvel or DC?

Who stood up to the big baddie in a event that wasn't white?

So yes if you put that team together of color-folks would make an issue of it.

Especially now as folks are getting vocal about it. Because when you should have been doing it naturally, DC caved in to a few complaints. So instead of keeping on they caved in.

Don't get me wrong. I think they should try something like that to see whether it would sell.

I think the question will always be will FANS allow it to sell?

Will fans actually decide to read or not read the book based on PREVIEWS or looking at it in the comic book store versus blowing it off because of skin color.

I think a point has to be made to those who view it off based on skin color and then go off online or in public-as long as you vent-you bring in more attention. That can be a good thing or bad thing.

Complain and you open more doors that DC nor Marvel want open. The lack of POC in front and behind the scenes gets exposed real easy.

Or you get a Fantastic Four mess. Maybe Marvel would have those film rights if the anti black Johnny crowd had shut up. You give Marvel & DC an out when you target POC and not focus on the content of the product.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Because the assumption is those skill sets would never be found in a minority.

Because those stories where those minorities can show how powerful they are either have never been written or are in books that have yet to be reprinted.

Aside from Static saving the universe 22 years ago in a crossover with Superman, Superboy & Steel-what minority has saved the day in a crossover or big event at Marvel or DC?

Who stood up to the big baddie in a event that wasn't white?

So yes if you put that team together of color-folks would make an issue of it.

Especially now as folks are getting vocal about it. Because when you should have been doing it naturally, DC caved in to a few complaints. So instead of keeping on they caved in.

If "Big Crossover" is a requirement, then yes, we're screwed. However, if we reduce this requirement to "in universe showings" (which, again, is all white people ever needed. Sometimes not even that), then it gets easy.

John Irons was vital part of Morrison's JLA and a vital role in Our Worlds at War (hey, one big crossover, at least!)

Jaime Reyes repelled a Reach invasion. Big issue, at the time.

Cyborg, among other things, has big 7 status now.

John Stewart is established and well known enough.

And we can can go on; there are enough examples of non-white characters that are up to the task at this point; if one can not fit every ethnicity in a team, whicever team, is not unreasonable that "white" is the one left out...

[Lee]

Or you get a Fantastic Four mess. Maybe Marvel would have those film rights if the anti black Johnny crowd had shut up.

What do you mean?

[Ascended]

I think a big with Batwoman, Batman Inc and other new batman Characters is that Batman already has a big support cast with very popular characters, which makes it very hard to add new ones and to give them screen time in the Big events, unless you really push them (like Harper and Duke) which will usually doesn't please the fans of the characters that get sidelined for them. And especially Batwoman had the problem that she had hardly any connection to the other characters of the franchise.

Yeah, Gotham is pretty bloated, but I was just using Kate as an example, along with the Others and whoever else I brought up in that post.

But I think the point still stands; new characters don't do well at the Big 2 most of the time, and at DC its even harder because they've got so much pre-Civil Rights history and have traditionally been the "legacy" company. And while I totally understand the complaints about race changing, the reality of the market is that its one of the very few options out there for expanding diversity.

Way I see it, you've got three choices: A) Race change. Its not pretty, but it gets the job done, and if you do it carefully, most people will roll with it (see Helena Bertenelli in Grayson. And honestly, I didnt even notice that she wasn't white anymore until someone pointed it out here). B) Introduce new characters and hope they stick. Odds are, they won't, but every once in a great while someone will connect with readers. C) Introduce supporting characters who aren't white and build them up in someone else's title, like the gods of Mythbrawl over in Superman, or the Others in Aquaman, and then hope that they last longer than the creative team who dreamed them up and catch enough attention to get beyond "supporting character" levels, though that's not likely to work either, statistically speaking.

[Ascended]

And we can can go on; there are enough examples of non-white characters that are up to the task at this point; if one can not fit every ethnicity in a team, whicever team, is not unreasonable that "white" is the one left out...

Eh, aside from the noticeable lack of a Trinity member Im not actually likely to notice it at all. I mean, I only just recently noticed that the new Ultimates team only has one white character, and that's Carol Danvers. Never dawned on me that the team is majority black until someone mentioned it here. It was just a bunch of characters I like and America Chavez (spelling?) who I knew nothing about until the book began.

Is that weird? I dont know if thats just a white privilege thing or what, but I dont really notice race.

[Prisoner 6655321]

It really just depends on the teams, both on the creative side and the fictional roster.

As a descriptor I'm very “white”. I assume, in most regards I've been the recipient of white privilege to some extent.

That said, I'm only about four generations removed from Polish serfdom on my paternal side and my mothers siblings (my mother was the illegitimate product of an affair and her actual father is unknown) were the children of an Irish American woman and her husband who was of Romanichal (but as noted this was not my actual grandfather) ancestry, the two of them were carnies. My parents were both bikers and I grew up in the post-industrial rustbelt cesspool of McKeesport, PA playing in abandoned homes and factories before getting involved in the Pittsburgh punk scene in the mid 90's. I guess it's worth mentioning that I didn't really grow up with exceptional strong ethno-cultural leanings (except maybe the sorta borderline mystical form of Catholicism practiced by my paternal grandmother who I lived with for several years as a young child), there was mostly biker stuff, pig roasts and the like… I guess I often lived in a house with more family members than is typical for most Americans but I'm getting off topic. Point being I grew up to be a fairly politically minded blue collar gutter-literati. I now work with special needs kids and am in a long term kid-less relationship with a pretty wonderful woman.

While I have suffered from some level unreasonable police harassment in my life most of these situations were when I was much younger and having to do with a specific, local ethno-socio-economic bias (the neighborhood I grew up in had a bit of a reputation mostly due to it's history of mostly eastern European immigrants being more poor and unruly in comparison to our more Anglo-Saxon white neighbors so local police would often target kids they knew lived on my block) or at political rallies which I chose to be at. That said, I know that looking the way that I do I am much less likely to be the target of police harassment / brutality than most PoC.

My point isn't that I'm some kinda “special white” (though for reasons that are way too long to get into here I do kinda detest the usage of the word “white” as a cultural, as opposed to physical descriptor) but that despite any outward appearance or even any very real social privilege that I may receive I don't generally feel any kinda association with the sort of “white people(s)” that get depicted in media because despite any physical similarities those characters have only so much in common with me as the common humanity shared by all individuals.

As such, I'm a huge advocate for more cultural diversity in comics. Not so much because of a need to see my own life reflected in comics (because I get that there aren't too many folks who really have similar backgrounds to my own, though I am by no means the only one who grew up in circumstances like my own especially in the sense that despite appearance and very real privilege that many "white" people have grown up in situations that were / are pretty culturally divergent from the mainstream American idea of "whiteness" ) but because I see the genuine need for more cultural diversity in all media and as a bonus, I guess, I am more likely to identify with a PoC with a cultural background more similar to my own rather than a lilly-white suburban WASP (this isn't a jab at white-anglo-saxon-protestants, just me noting that despite my blue eyes and social privilege my own life experience is pretty far outside of the accepted norm).

But like I said, my interest would depend on the creative team and the make up of the book.

[Doctor Know]

I read JL with no "Caucasian" characters on the team.

My dream roster would be:

Vixen
Doctor Light
Firestorm (Jackson and Gehenna)
Jinx
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)
Hawkgirl (Kendra)
Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes)

[Aahz]

Way I see it, you've got three choices: A) Race change. Its not pretty, but it gets the job done, and if you do it carefully, most people will roll with it (see Helena Bertenelli in Grayson. And honestly, I didnt even notice that she wasn't white anymore until someone pointed it out here).

I'm not sure if the Helena Bertenelli fans are really pleased with the new version. Even if the problem is less the race and more that character has appart from the name not much in common with the old version.
And they just changed her from Italian-American to Italian with maybe some African roots (it is not really confirmed, and based on her look she could still be a very tanned Italian.)
And even before she was never popular enough to carry an ongoing series and the role she has now is even smaller than what she had before.

[Sirzechs]

I'm not sure if the Helena Bertenelli fans are really pleased with the new version. Even if the problem is less the race and more that character has appart from the name not much in common with the old version.
And they just changed her from Italian-American to Italian with maybe some African roots (it is not really confirmed, and based on her look she could still be a very tanned Italian.)
And even before she was never popular enough to carry an ongoing series and the role she has now is even smaller than what she had before.

That's simply because new Bertenelli is less Huntress and more Femme Fetale X from James Bond(Not that anything is wrong she actually a well written character) has nothing to do with her race change.
My niece is also biracial Italian and she has the same hair as new Helena some what lighter skin tone thou.

[Kapparition]

My team

Icon
Batwing
Black Lightning
Steel
Skyrocket
Vixen
John Stewart
Thunder
Bloodwynd
Bronze Tiger
Aqualad (Jackson)
Bumblebee

Made a 12 member team that I think could handle most major crisis in earth and beyond. I have fighters and tacticians. I have intellect and stealth abilities.