Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2021

[Omega_DCD]

I instantly remembered this same panel while reading today. 'Cause Jean's worst nightmare is herself, and I think the dream sequence served as kind of a metaphor for that.

Yep...and I think she was warning Nightmare of that. She tells him "You risked much by entering my mind(dredging up Dark Phoenix and destroying D'Bari), and I'm still clinging to my kindness for your benefit"...which I match up with Apocalypse's "Could she...let free the terrible energies contained within her?"

There's always a firestorm beneath the surface with Jean...dig too deep, and be incinerated by it!

[Mercury]

Thank you Mercury

These 4 issues have shown breadth and depth regarding Jean's character. To quote what I said after the 3rd issue

"Leadership, poise, intelligence, intrigue, power, warmth, nurturing, supportive, collaborative, vivacious and compassionate...He's given her so much in such a short span already"

Also, given what has been touched upon in this issue...Dark Phoenix, Jean's use of the "regressive" Marvel Girl name/look/identity, yet also declaring her power in the Hellfire Gala voting speech (also, in the scene with dream Emma, Jean is the original school uniform, then MG, but still school aged apparently and carrying the same school books)...anyway it reminds me a bit of Apocalypse's write up on Jean

I just finished my workout and feel endorphin-induced exuberance. I agree with every f***ing thing you've written. We're totally on the same page. This issue was a total deep dive into her present psyche. It was truly sublime. She was both vulnerable and impenetrable. And I love that you referenced Apoc's write-up. I've got goosebumps.

Let me stop before I make a fool of myself more than I already have, lol.

[Tank]

I dont agree that is was some deep character exploration. It was like the stirring the shallowest of waters.

I get being excited that Jean got some panel time, but let’s not blow things out of proportion like it’s some new or exciting character work. It was just sufficient to hit her basic character points like a check list but hardly deep, new or different or even a unique perspective on the current era.

We didnt get any insight into how she currently feels about Krakoa, any hints on how she came to decide to have whatever it is she’s having with Wolverine and Cyclops, how she feels about her new team etc. Her present mind can be of any Jean from in the past which is the issue. Stuck with no growth.

[Mercury]

I know my girl.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Yikes. A "Dark Phoenix wasn't Jean" take does not bode well for the character.

If DP wasn't Jean, then the Saga is just a mindless action story. That capacity for darkness is important to the roundedness and the actual point of the character.

I dont agree that is was some deep character exploration. It was like the stirring the shallowest of waters.

I get being excited that Jean got some panel time, but let’s not blow things out of proportion like it’s some new or exciting character work. It was just sufficient to hit her basic character points like a check list but hardly deep, new or different or even a unique perspective on the current era.

We didnt get any insight into how she currently feels about Krakoa, any hints on how she came to decide to have whatever it is she’s having with Wolverine and Cyclops, how she feels about her new team etc. Her present mind can be of any Jean from in the past which is the issue. Stuck with no growth.

It wasn't especially deep, so you do kinda have to read some depth into it, but it was something as opposed to nothing lol.

Let's all campaign to get Dennis Hopeless back in charge of Jean.

[Mercury]

It wasn't especially deep, so you do kinda have to read some depth into it, but it was something as opposed to nothing. Also, it was written with a mostly positive outlook on Jean's past stories, which is rare.

The deepest moments for me, aside from her Phoenix nightmare, were her Gala speech and the exchange with Emma, which hinted at her repressing herself, and not just regarding her costume.

The most impressive thing was how she was able to dispel Nightmare with such ease. This was a stellar, standout telepathic feat for her.

The most mysterious thing was the unidentified costume.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I hope the repression angle is an actual thing Duggan intended but IDK. That tweet kinda puts his take on the character in more doubt for me.

As far as Jean feats go, I would pay a premium to have more Mike Del Mundo TK action ala his issue of All-New X-Men.

[Mercury]

I hope the repression angle is an actual thing Duggan intended but IDK. That tweet kinda puts his take on the character in more doubt for me.

As far as Jean feats go, I would pay a premium to have more Mike Del Mundo TK action ala his issue of All-New X-Men.

Oh, come on, Kitty. Be sensible. Inferno and the return of Madelyne Pryor are on the horizon; Jean is dreaming about the costume not being “for her,” and she’s appearing in the HoX/PoX of the new era, i.e., X Lives/X Deaths… You’re really not seeing the gathering perfect storm for a major change for her?

Sell me something else, lol.

[Exodus]

I really do not understand why it is necessary to take the Dark Phoenix story away from Jean? I agree it would totally destroy the emotional impact of this story. It is also ridiculously overly complicated that a character called Phoenix is actually not reborn but was a clone imbued with all her personality and memories although the same character also has a history and future where she is actually explicitly reborn in a cocoon/phoenix egg several times. But this ONE TIME, there she was only a clone.

lol

Honestly, every single O5 character by now is implicated is mass murder. lol Cyclops, Iceman, Beast, Jean, Angel,and Prof. X. Just let Jean stay in the club. ;-)

There is only one Coca Cola!! And Jean is the one who made going evil en vogue.

[Spiderfan001]

I really do not understand why it is necessary to take the Dark Phoenix story away from Jean? I agree it would totally destroy the emotional impact of this story.

Honestly, every single O5 character by now is implicated is mass murder. lol Cyclops, Iceman, Beast, Jean, Angel,and Prof. X. Just let Jean stay in the club. ;-)

There is only one Coca Cola! And Jean is the one who made going evil en vogue.

Agreed, while I don't think it ruins the story if it's Jeans it's a lot better.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Oh, come on, Kitty. Be sensible. Inferno and the return of Madelyne Pryor are on the horizon; Jean is dreaming about the costume not being “for her,” and she’s appearing in the HoX/PoX of the new era, i.e., X Lives/X Deaths… You’re really not seeing the gathering perfect storm for a major change for her?

Sell me something else, lol.

What is indicating a great change? Fighting Maddie and/or Cyclops' other evil exes isn't new as it's pretty much the only story she gets, she appeared in HoxPox and that only meant something intentionally negative for her character, Duggan is on the "Phoenix wasn't Jean" train...I'm not seeing anything indicating something transformative, to be honest. I don't know where you're getting it from.

[Mercury]

What is indicating a great change? Fighting Maddie and/or Cyclops' other evil exes isn't new as it's pretty much the only story she gets, she appeared in HoxPox and that only meant something intentionally negative for her character, Duggan is on the "Phoenix wasn't Jean" train...I'm not seeing anything indicating something transformative, to be honest. I don't know where you're getting it from.

I don’t think she’s going to fight Madelyne as much as her resurrection is going to act as a catalyst for a change in Jean, along with whatever else goes down during Inferno.

Also, Percy is not going to dog Jean. People bring up that he had Wolverine kill her but he killed the entire team. In either case, her wearing Cerebro on that cover is pretty indicative…

[Exodus]

Agreed, while I don't think it ruins the story if it's Jeans it's a lot better.

I will always go with Grant Morrison's gorgeous and simple interpretation that Jean Grey is an omega level mutant and she has the capacity to transcend her humanity and becoming a cosmic entity: The Phoenix. I think they called this in an interview "apotheosis" from the greek concept of a human being transcending to divine levels and becoming an abstract idea through deification.

But Jean actively decides to stay human.

[Spiderfan001]

I will always go with Grant Morrison's gorgeous and simple interpretation that Jean Grey is an omega level mutant and she has the capacity to transcend her humanity and becoming a cosmic entity: The Phoenix. I think they called this in an interview "apotheosis" from the greek concept of a human being transcending to divine levels and becoming an abstract idea through deification.

But Jean actively decides to stay human.

Sounds like a great reason for why she hasn't gone full pick psionic form as well

[Mercury]

I really do not understand why it is necessary to take the Dark Phoenix story away from Jean? I agree it would totally destroy the emotional impact of this story. It is also ridiculously overly complicated that a character called Phoenix is actually not reborn but was a clone imbued with all her personality and memories although the same character also has a history and future where she is actually explicitly reborn in a cocoon/phoenix egg several times. But this ONE TIME, there she was only a clone.

lol

Honestly, every single O5 character by now is implicated is mass murder. lol Cyclops, Iceman, Beast, Jean, Angel,and Prof. X. Just let Jean stay in the club. ;-)

There is only one Coca Cola!! And Jean is the one who made going evil en vogue.

At this point, it’s so as not to retcon the retcon. If Marvel announced tomorrow that Jean really was Dark Phoenix, i.e., it wasn’t a clone, I would love it. As it stands, I don’t feel bad anymore that it’s considered a clone.

Agreed, while I don't think it ruins the story if it's Jeans it's a lot better.

I agree. I just don’t like how the abuse aspect is slightly glossed over.

I will always go with Grant Morrison's gorgeous and simple interpretation that Jean Grey is an omega level mutant and she has the capacity to transcend her humanity and becoming a cosmic entity: The Phoenix. I think they called this in an interview "apotheosis" from the greek concept of a human being transcending to divine levels and becoming an abstract idea through deification.

Well, the beauty of what Morrison did is that he established that the real Jean, i.e., not a fragmented clone, could totally control herself whilst being completely bonded with the Phoenix Force. It almost acts as a stark contrast to the DPS, especially considering the fact that in NXM, Jean is pushed to a rageous state and never snaps or loses control.