All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Mister Mets]

It's a play on RINO, sure they're actually gay, but they don't support any actual gay rights.

I get the play on RINO. It's a bad idea for multiple reasons, including the way it can turn off voters who may decisive in future decisions.

It's a good thing that the RNC chairwoman has made statements supporting gay rights, and that there are gay organizations within the Republican party. It makes it harder to roll back the clock, and means that contemporary political disagreements take for granted things that were quite controversial in living memory.

So now Republican's are clutching their pearls because Sesame Street has introduced an Asian American Muppet.


But sure, the Republican Party doesn't have a problem with racism.

The objection is to the idea of muppets having races, rather than anything against Asian-Americans.

That would only happen if Sesame Street were written by crazy Qpublicans...but since it's a shown written by rational adults that won't happen.

There are plenty of stories about bad characters engaging in outrageous examples of bigotry that are not written by bigots.

Too funny Philosopher Nicholas Shackel, who coined the term had a clear agenda of prioritizing scientific knowledge and the utility of limits above unprovable or as Popper would put it " advocating falsifiability as the criterion of demarcation for science,"

Popper explicitly allows for the fact that in practice a single conflicting or counter-instance is never sufficient methodologically for falsification, and that scientific theories are often retained even though much of the available evidence conflicts with them, or is anomalous with respect to them. Shackel's target was philosophers who showed that history demonstrates the social construction of science. The fallacy only exists in the logic of science which is constantly revising truth.



It is turtles all the way down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

The idea of the motte and bailey fallacy/ doctrine is hardly unique to science. In pretty much any field, it's possible to switch from a controversial argument to an uncontroversial one.

There is a bait and switch in much of the arguments that the election was stolen, when the argument you referenced "Legal by sweeping emergency authority" does not match the rhetoric of people arguing that Trump is really president, nor does it match claims about whether courts should have taken allegations of widespread fraud more seriously.

[Tendrin]

I
The objection is to the idea of muppets having races, rather than anything against Asian-Americans.

That's not what's really behind the objectiion.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

If I'm the Democrats I'd make a point to make the Republican party as clueless as possible to media. Play it up that they care more about fighting Sesame Street puppets than they do for country.

"Were out here trying to help this country. Meanwhile Republicans are banning Big Bird and Ernie from conventions. Angry they can't be racist over puppets."

[Tendrin]

If I'm the Democrats I'd make a point to make the Republican party as clueless as possible to media. Play it up that they care more about fighting Sesame Street puppets than they do for country.

"Were out here trying to help this country. Meanwhile Republicans are banning Big Bird and Ernie from conventions. Angry they can't be racist over puppets."

They've tried this. The DC press is wired for the GOP, however, and 'dems in disarray' is a much more attractive storyline than whatever it is the GOP is actually doing at a given time. There are no expectations placed upon them, and no bar so low the press won't let them slide under it. Messaging requires that the media actually do its job and, frankly, I think people don't always grasp how deeply intertwined the DC press and the GOP is when it comes to what storylines and narratives get broadcast and become common wisdom, and how helpful it is to the GOP.

[babyblob]

If I'm the Democrats I'd make a point to make the Republican party as clueless as possible to media. Play it up that they care more about fighting Sesame Street puppets than they do for country.

"Were out here trying to help this country. Meanwhile Republicans are banning Big Bird and Ernie from conventions. Angry they can't be racist over puppets."

Nope. They are too busy playing nice and taking the high road. Biden is still counting on GOP support for his BBB Plan remember? Washington can work together etc... At least he says that every time he is front of America.

[Malvolio]

They've tried this. The DC press is wired for the GOP, however, and 'dems in disarray' is a much more attractive storyline than whatever it is the GOP is actually doing at a given time. There are no expectations placed upon them, and no bar so low the press won't let them slide under it. Messaging requires that the media actually do its job and, frankly, I think people don't always grasp how deeply intertwined the DC press and the GOP is when it comes to what storylines and narratives get broadcast and become common wisdom, and how helpful it is to the GOP.

But that can't be right. The majority of the media is liberal, aren't they?

[Tendrin]

But that can't be right. The majority of the media is liberal, aren't they?

Oh right, totally liberal. Even Liberal Bill Maher Agrees...

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Rumor is, Trump himself will want the job, that he won't do properly, just to try and impeach Biden everyday and reinsert himself into the White House.

I've heard that rumor, and, in my uninformed opinion, that won't happen. Unless I'm wrong about how government works (and I won't deny I am), the Speaker is behind the vice-president in the hierarchy, that means Trump would be behind Kamala Harris, not just a woman, but a BLACK woman in the pecking order. Between his misogyny and racist bent, Trump would NEVER be able to handle that, thus, he'd turn down the position if offered and take his chances on regaining the presidency in the 2024 election.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Oh right, totally liberal. Even Liberal Bill Maher Agrees...

Liberal these days meaning 'basic empathy and common sense'.

But the media is sensationalist first and foremost. And the GOP know how to give them red meat.

[achilles]

Here's some news that I stumbled into whilst watching France 24's newscast. Or rather trying to, as the first word out of the anchor's mouth, on an empty set which was largely darkened, were the France 24 was in the midst of a strike for better pay and working conditions. I posted this because I've never tuned into any broadcast before where the first thing the guy says is that. Meanwhile, Austria is looking to a new lockdown, while setting as a goal near 100% vaccination by February IIRC. Yeah, there seem to be places with big surges, not good.

[thwhtGuardian]

I get the play on RINO. It's a bad idea for multiple reasons, including the way it can turn off voters who may decisive in future decisions.

It's a good thing that the RNC chairwoman has made statements supporting gay rights, and that there are gay organizations within the Republican party. It makes it harder to roll back the clock, and means that contemporary political disagreements take for granted things that were quite controversial in living memory.

The objection is to the idea of muppets having races, rather than anything against Asian-Americans.


There are plenty of stories about bad characters engaging in outrageous examples of bigotry that are not written by bigots.


The idea of the motte and bailey fallacy/ doctrine is hardly unique to science. In pretty much any field, it's possible to switch from a controversial argument to an uncontroversial one.

There is a bait and switch in much of the arguments that the election was stolen, when the argument you referenced "Legal by sweeping emergency authority" does not match the rhetoric of people arguing that Trump is really president, nor does it match claims about whether courts should have taken allegations of widespread fraud more seriously.

You have to be joking?

Right?

There isn't any actual support for Gay rights in the Republican party...and a happy pride tweet from the head of the RNC doesn't change that. That's whole point of the GINO statement.

If you seriously think that there is an iota of truth to the statement, " Republicans believe in freedom and opportunity for all Americans...we are fighting to show that there is room in our party for everyone." then I'm a Nigerian Prince and I need your help, PM me for details!

And come on, you're really trying to say that's the objection to Sesame Street?

Heck, let's try and hash that out and see if it holds water, all you need to do is ask one question to yourself: do you seriously believe he'd be okay with Sesame Street using this Muppet to teach children that racism was wrong if she were blue instead of specifically being Korean American?

I have a pretty hard time believing that, and I don't think that's on me as the complaint goes on to specify that he's sick of Sesame Street pushing propaganda. How is simply having a Muppet with a defined race propaganda?

The answer?

Having a specific race isn't propaganda, but in the eyes of conservatives talking about racial equality IS propaganda. It's one of those things that made me leave the Republican party, how does one politicize basic human decency? Especially from the party that supposedly values Christian morality? And let's be clear, that is exactly all airing an educational bit about multiculturalism is, it's educating children on the topic of the basic human decency of accepting people of all colors and races as the same as yourself. That shouldn't be a hot take educational policy...but it is for some reason and it's why its laughable to try and claim that there isn't an inherent level of racism to conservative politics here in the US.

[Xheight]

The idea of the motte and bailey fallacy/ doctrine is hardly unique to science. In pretty much any field, it's possible to switch from a controversial argument to an uncontroversial one.

There is a bait and switch in much of the arguments that the election was stolen, when the argument you referenced "Legal by sweeping emergency authority" does not match the rhetoric of people arguing that Trump is really president, nor does it match claims about whether courts should have taken allegations of widespread fraud more seriously.

I didn't say it was limited only that it was being applied in field where it has no place of bringing it. We want certainty and in the example provided about Law and Popper it shows that is an temporal illusion.
What you are really talking about is not a Fallacy but something Isaiah Berlin tried to address in his morality and pluralism discourse Do soldiers murder in war? And it was developed that Our freedom to move between the two is the very source of being able to adjust to reality and change our Laws and Attitudes for both good and ill. His possible solution was to think of positive and negative liberties but ran aground in Talmon's The Origins of Totalitarian Democracy, where " both liberal-empirical and totalitarian tendencies were significant and influential in European thought by the time of the French Revolution. In particular, he held that key aspects of the thought of Jean-Jacques Rousseau and lesser known radical Babouvist egalitarian Enlightenment figures such as Gabriel Bonnot de Mably, and Étienne-Gabriel Morelly, are best seen as a foreshadowing of twentieth century totalitarianism." It is why we hear so much about 'social contract' today to oppress.

As to not matching, that too is disingenuous as numbers of the cases brought cite the emergency aspect repeatedly even as they were hand waved away by the press and eventually the courts.
NPR

Trump's lawyers argued they wanted to ensure, quote, "fair and orderly elections conducted in accordance with established rules." In other states, the Trump campaign is challenging emergency election plans.

NPR reported:
On [April 30], a federal judge denied a request by True the Vote to block a Nevada plan to send absentee ballots to all active voters for the state’s June 9 primary. U.S. District Judge Miranda Du dismissed as “speculative” and “without any factual basis” the group’s claim that the plan would expose the election to fraud and thereby dilute the votes of legitimate voters.

Like spam it is a numbers game not about truth values.
here is a funny one that the haters will enjoy
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-voter-f...202415861.html

[Xheight]

But that can't be right. The majority of the media is liberal, aren't they?

If it isn't true then why has the disarray story dropped below the Censure story? Yes they are.

[Xheight]

You have to be joking?

Having a specific race isn't propaganda, but in the eyes of conservatives talking about racial equality IS propaganda. It's one of those things that made me leave the Republican party, how does one politicize basic human decency? Especially from the party that supposedly values Christian morality? And let's be clear, that is exactly all airing an educational bit about multiculturalism is, it's educating children on the topic of the basic human decency of accepting people of all colors and races as the same as yourself. That shouldn't be a hot take educational policy...but it is for some reason and it's why its laughable to try and claim that there isn't an inherent level of racism to conservative politics here in the US.

Yes it is propaganda when it prioritizes races. That is why specificity is NOT allowed in affirmative action according to SCOTUS. Be decent, not advantage to correct some notional disadvantage.

Frankly, I don't want my Korean kid growing up thinking that he is a victim of "people" because when he is picked on it is by individuals not a class or race.

[Tendrin]

Oh brother.