Stephen Strange: Doctor Strange Appreciation 2021

[Albert1981]

In my opinion, MCU!Strange and comics!Strange are different characters. What works for one does not necessarily work for the other (nor should it).

That's probably very true. I mean in Infinity War, Stark mocked Strange for saying "hitherto undreamt of". That's comic book Strange talking. "Archaic prose". Stephen's talking like a regular dude in the movies now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdFIPDFomys

[Clea]

So Steve Rogers, Hawkeye, Vision, Happy Hogan, Helen Cho, and Maria Hill can learn magic too?! If I were them, I would wanna get more powers as well.

In my opinion, MCU!Strange and comics!Strange are different characters. What works for one does not necessarily work for the other (nor should it).

Other Marvel characters theoretically could learn magic, but the amount of study and practice time they'd need to perform on a daily basis over a period of years would be prohibitive, IMO. The other heroes are all too busy with their own careers and lives to drop everything and devote themselves to the study of magic. It isn't something that anyone in general can learn and do overnight. Even someone who's naturally adept at magic needs to study.

I agree that MCU!Strange and comics!Strange are different characters. That's true for all of the movie characters. I consider the MCU to be an alt universe. The showrunners are cherry picking from the comics to create stories for the movies, but even so they modify the stories a lot for the films.

[Albert1981]

Other Marvel characters theoretically could learn magic, but the amount of study and practice time they'd need to perform on a daily basis over a period of years would be prohibitive, IMO. The other heroes are all too busy with their own careers and lives to drop everything and devote themselves to the study of magic. It isn't something that anyone in general can learn and do overnight. Even someone who's naturally adept at magic needs to study.

I agree that MCU!Strange and comics!Strange are different characters. That's true for all of the movie characters. I consider the MCU to be an alt universe. The showrunners are cherry picking from the comics to create stories for the movies, but even so they modify the stories a lot for the films.

I see. Thanks for the detailed response. I have ALWAYS wondered who could get to be a magic user in the Marvel Universe and who could not. So technically almost anybody can. Interesting. I regard MCU and comics Stranges as different too. But both are pretty funny these days I must say.

[Eto]

Thanks DigiCom!

[DigiCom]

Thanks DigiCom!

All part of the service.

[Albert1981]

Interesting old article on how magic needs to have rules in fiction:

https://simonkjones.com/why-magic-needs-to-have-rules/

I'm glad that folks on this thread clearly understand that a failure to create a logical and effective magical "system" in the MoM could seriously damage that movie. I think Feige and his team have been REALLY careful in how magic is used in the MCU thus far, and I have some confidence things will work out fine. I do think WandaVision and Falcon and the Winter Soldier suffered a bit because they were filmed during this pandemic. Strange 2 is facing some of the same problems.

[DigiCom]

Interesting old article on how magic needs to have rules in fiction:

https://simonkjones.com/why-magic-needs-to-have-rules/

I'm glad that folks on this thread clearly understand that a failure to create a logical and effective magical "system" in the MoM could seriously damage that movie. I think Feige and his team have been REALLY careful in how magic is used in the MCU thus far, and I have some confidence things will work out fine. I do think WandaVision and Falcon and the Winter Soldier suffered a bit because they were filmed during this pandemic. Strange 2 is facing some of the same problems.

I find he undercuts his argument by not using any examples of actual fantasy to support his position.

The entire article boils down to "Magic should have rules. Here are two works that show how superpowers should have rules."

You've posted much more convincing links to support your point (which most of us agree with, anyway )

[Albert1981]

I find he undercuts his argument by not using any examples of actual fantasy to support his position.

The entire article boils down to "Magic should have rules. Here are two works that show how superpowers should have rules."

You've posted much more convincing links to support your point (which most of us agree with, anyway )

Well, I'm glad you do. I think the rules established for magic in the MCU have been fairly strong thus far. I thought Tolkien did a great job of avoiding deus ex machinas FOR THE MOST PART in his novels. The Eagles sometimes were used as such in his books, but I'm not sure if they had anything to do with magic. Peter Jackson fixed this problem in the first movie of his trilogy. We're shown in the first film that Gandalf can call the Eagles to help him when he needs it, so when they appear at the end of the third film to save Frodo and Sam, it isn't a deus ex machina; we already know that it can happen. Nice touch!

[Albert1981]

I'm really hoping the MoM will be a self-contained story with solid character development and a great plot. I actually don't want a thousand characters inserted into Stephen's film and having sloppy alternate universe versions of characters there is absolutely need for in it. Captain America 3 was fine, but I felt it was more like an Avengers film than a Cap one. The Disney Plus Marvel shows so far seem to be obsessed with setting up future movies and shows, and I find that extremely annoying. I LOVED how the first Strange movie actually did some filming in Nepal and we got to see the Eastern mysticism that came straight out of the comic books. I thought it was pointless for Falcon and Bucky to hang out in Madripoor. Madripoor is supposed to be in Southeast Asia. Why the hell did the demographics of the place look like downtown Atlanta? Couldn't the Power Broker and her followers just have hung out in Jakarta, Manila or Kuala Lumpur? This serialization approach to storytelling reminds me of the soap operas I used to watch as a kid! The first Strange film could have remained a great film even if it didn't take place in the MCU. I want the second one to be similar in nature.

[Reviresco]

Nice interaction between Captain Marvel and Doctor Strange in Captain Marvel, #28. Carol is still being haunted by visions of future events and so seeks out Strange and asks him teach her magic. At first he literally laughs in her face, but then he realizes that she's serious. He takes her to a room called the Schrödinger Room in the magic bar with no doors. The room contains an entity that will reveal the answer to the question that the person seeks an answer to. It doesn't go well for Carol. When she realizes that Strange isn't going to teach her magic instantly, she storms off to get help elsewhere.

Strange has mentioned many times that it takes years of study to learn magic, so of course there is no way that he could teach her magic overnight. Carol obviously thought otherwise. For his part, Strange thought that what she really needed was insight. That's so very typical of how Strange approaches problems. When something's vexing him, he'll meditate until he finds the answer. Carol, OTOH, just wanted a quick power-up, not insight and kiss.

Overall, I liked this issue a lot. There is a lot of affectionate, relaxed banter between Strange and Carol. I think they are cute together as a couple. Their skillsets complement each other well. I'm looking forward to seeing how this storyline plays out over the next couple of issues. I suspect Carol's quest to gain magical power overnight is not going to turn out well.

That may be true, but ... well. That's not exactly a flattering portrait of Captain Marvel. I mean, she has such little regard / respect for Doctor Strange and his abilities, that she thinks she can suddenly become a magician with a costume change and a few lessons? I wonder if she thinks all she needs is scrubs, a scalpel and some lessons from Strange to become a surgeon? Not to mention her getting mad and looking for someone else to 'help' her. But then again, I'm not a Captain Marvel fan, so maybe this is an accurate portrayal.

[Eto]

All right, I've been reading some more issues
Dr. Strange (1974 run)
issues 6-11


#6
I thought we'd get more Umar in this issue, but no it's Dormammu again. :/


#7
The guy with the pointy mask....it's Clea's dad! :O


#8
So did Clea inscribe a circle on the "ground" in order to borrow Strange's powers, because that part confused me a bit.
If not, then how did she borrow his powers?

Furthermore, why does Dormammu say: "It tolls the hour, Umar. The hour that shall witness Dormammu reborn!"
Did he get a power boost or is he exaggerating here?


#9
Why did Umar shrink from a giant to a normal size human all of a sudden? I'm guessing the burden of the powers were too much?
Anyways,
wow, I've finally learnt that Umar's mom was human. I've been wondering this since her first appearance!
That means she's half human and so is Clea, right?!


I like how there are sorcerers around the entire globe and how Strange has assembled a team: Rama Kaliph, Turhan Barim, Lord Phyff, etc.


You know, I've noticed for a few issues now Stephen calls Clea his lover, but he also calls her his disciple at times. Perhaps it's just me, but I find the latter a bit awkward considering that they are in a relationship. Not saying it's not possible, just saying it feels a bit odd to me.


#10
I really these kind of issues where Strange has discussions with Eternity or Death or Living Tribunal and so on and so forth. It's so awesome to see how Strange has interacted with top-tier Marvel cosmic characters/entities.


#11
Is Eternity's motive really that he thinks that time has run out for humanity or does he want Strange to learn a personal lesson?

[Clea]

That may be true, but ... well. That's not exactly a flattering portrait of Captain Marvel. I mean, she has such little regard / respect for Doctor Strange and his abilities, that she thinks she can suddenly become a magician with a costume change and a few lessons? I wonder if she thinks all she needs is scrubs, a scalpel and some lessons from Strange to become a surgeon? Not to mention her getting mad and looking for someone else to 'help' her. But then again, I'm not a Captain Marvel fan, so maybe this is an accurate portrayal.

I suspect the writer intended to present an insightful portrait of Captain Marvel, not a flattering one. Carol has just seen a future in which billions of people died due to her vulnerability to magic. Her nature is not to shrink from a problem, it's to face the problem head on, power up, and overcome it. She went to the person she thought would help her to gain the skills she needs to go fight. She had no idea what it takes to learn magic. Strange explains to her that not only does she lack the aptitude and patience needed to master magic, but that it would take literally decades of study before she could learn enough magic to tackle this problem. He also cautions her that the future she saw is just one of millions of possible futures, and even for an experienced person like himself, looking into the future is difficult and problematic. She doesn't want to hear about the obstacles. She also didn't go to Strange for emotional solace and a kiss. She wants a practical, powerful solution. Since Strange can't give that to her, off she goes to find someone who will. I'm sure she thinks she'll find someone who will teach her a couple of powerful spells.

[Clea]

All right, I've been reading some more issues
Dr. Strange (1974 run)
issues 6-11


#6
I thought we'd get more Umar in this issue, but no it's Dormammu again. :/


#7
The guy with the pointy mask....it's Clea's dad! :O


#8
So did Clea inscribe a circle on the "ground" in order to borrow Strange's powers, because that part confused me a bit.
If not, then how did she borrow his powers?

Furthermore, why does Dormammu say: "It tolls the hour, Umar. The hour that shall witness Dormammu reborn!"
Did he get a power boost or is he exaggerating here?


#9
Why did Umar shrink from a giant to a normal size human all of a sudden? I'm guessing the burden of the powers were too much?
Anyways,
wow, I've finally learnt that Umar's mom was human. I've been wondering this since her first appearance!
That means she's half human and so is Clea, right?!


I like how there are sorcerers around the entire globe and how Strange has assembled a team: Rama Kaliph, Turhan Barim, Lord Phyff, etc.


You know, I've noticed for a few issues now Stephen calls Clea his lover, but he also calls her his disciple at times. Perhaps it's just me, but I find the latter a bit awkward considering that they are in a relationship. Not saying it's not possible, just saying it feels a bit odd to me.


#10
I really these kind of issues where Strange has discussions with Eternity or Death or Living Tribunal and so on and so forth. It's so awesome to see how Strange has interacted with top-tier Marvel cosmic characters/entities.


#11
Is Eternity's motive really that he thinks that time has run out for humanity or does he want Strange to learn a personal lesson?

Re #8: Strange drew the circle on the ground and Clea sanctified it with water. It was a pagan ritual to form a sacred space that allowed Strange to cast all of his power into Clea. I assume he did this because Clea could already naturally use magic in the Dark Dimension, but he was so weak that he was virtually powerless. He had been syphoning off his remaining energy into the Eye of Agamotto, which he cast into the circle. I assume this is the energy that was then cast into her. As for Dormammu, he had been reformed and reborn in the fires of the earth and very likely was even more powerful than he had been before. He was able to draw on earth dimension energy for the first time.

Re #9: We've seen the origin of Dormammu and Umar so we know that Umar is full Faltine. You can see their origin in Sorcerer Supreme #22. Both of them took on human appearance for a while, but after conquering the Dark Dimension, Dormammu abandoned the pretense of a human form. Umar chose the opposite path. She wanted to experience every aspect of being matter and having a human form so she lied to Orini to explain her human appearance and seduce him. Unfortunately for her, since she was an energy being, having sex in a physical form repulsed her, and giving birth drove her insane. I could almost feel sorry for her...except that she's a freakish, murderous, treacherous abomination of nature. LOL. She changes her size at will. When she's in 'I'm a goddess' mode she likes to appear as a giant. When she's in 'I want to indulge being flesh' she shrinks to human size.

As for Strange referring to Clea as his lover but also his disciple... it starts out weird and becomes borderline creepy (to me) after a while.

[Reviresco]

2 new Marvel omnibus coming out in Feb 2022

Makes sense considering the sequel is coming out in March 2022.

The two new omnibus are both for Doctor Strange! One is Aaron's run, but the other is Sorcerer Supreme volume 3! And Marvel must be reading this thread, because the two covers they picked for it are these!

A couple of my favorite covers from my favorite series -

Besides finishing off the run, it will also have the Ashcan Edition #1, Annual #4, Strange Tales 1, Midnight Sons Unlimited 6, Untold Tales of Spider-Man Strange Encounter 1, and Dr. Strange: What is it that Disturbs you Stephen?

AWESOME!

[Eto]

#12
Why is Mordo so stupid?
No seriously, he would rather die himself provided that Stephen dies during the process as well. Really man?
Meh, I prefer Dormammu over him at this point. I've liked Dormammu and NIghtmare prior to this issue as well, but this one cemented it better.
------------------------------------------------------
So....planet Earth will be destroyed in "eight minutes".
The real question is who's pulling the strings?



#13
- Wait so Nightmare controlled Eternity, the destruction of Earth was a dream but also not really a dream? So when Eternity dreams it all manifests. Regardless if he's awake or not, some planets are screwed lol.

- Wiat what, did the Ancient One fuse with Eternity? Does this mean he's one of the most powerful entities now?


#16
I looked up the wiki for this issue but nowhere does it mention Mephisto?
Then who this version of "satn, mephisto"?


Is my "hated friend" truly a collocation used in English?
I mean yeah you could say it, but it sounds weird to me.
note: English isn't my first language.



Some issues I've read from the Doctor Strange 1974 run ^